Great post. Thanks. That helps a lot. I am my own worst enemy because I, like you, have doubts. My WW could come crawling back on her hands and knees begging forgiveness and it might be the worst thing she could do for us right now. I need time to sort out my own mess. I also know I can't trust WW. Will I ever be able to again? Don't know. If I were convinced that I could not, I would already be divorced.

You will have to decide what you want. When you started this process, there was no doubt. Now there is. That is fine. Doubt all you want because it makes you question and find answers.

Your doubts about wanting WW back are normal. Most if not all of us have those. I can only speak for me for sure. I will tell you that I have doubted more and questioned more than you have (advantage of having had more time) and I have come to the conclusion that R is still what I hope to achieve. I believe that, with time, you will get that back too so don't make a decision now based on feelings that you may regret later, There is simply no reason why you have to make that decision now. Nobody is twisting your arm but you. I understand that you want to fix things now. Can't be done. Be patient if you can. All that you need right now - at this juncture - is patience. The future will sort itself out quite nicely without any help from you. You focus on yourself and the present. The future will reveal itself to you when it is ready.

Having doubts, IMO, is normal for a regular person. It might not be normal for my WW but for me it seems that right. I have doubts because of my feelings.

I took my WW to the altar based on my feelings. Was that a mistake? Are you saying that I shouldn’t have done it? That I shouldn’t have trusted what I have believed in? How do you know which woman to take to the altar if you don’t base it on your feelings you have for her?

I am patient. As a matter of fact I am surprised with myself how patient I am. I never thought I could ever be so patient. Do you want to know why? Simply because of MB and this forum. If I haven’t found MB I would’ve been divorced by now.

Unfortunately many people do exactly that. Then their feelings change and they look for something else (A, D, deviant behavior, you name it). Love is not a feeling. Being in love is a feeling. When some people go to the altar, they have both. Some people have one or the other and some people have neither. I don't know what you had.

I will say that your doubts at the moment are a reult of your torment of emotions. Get past that and then decide what is left.

Hey fellas, I'm sorry to jump in but I just had this strange experience.

A couple of days ago Dylan pointed a post (on another board) out to me, saying I should read it and maybe print it out. I didn't print it out, but just kind of started doing what it suggested. Didn't think much more of it.

Until tonight, when I said goodnight and gave her a 6 second hug and she said that I should post it to you two because it's working pretty good for me.

Then she quick as a bunny hopped through the hole in the wall over to her place.

Leaving me all... like... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, I'm going to go and obsess over what that really means...

Here's the article from the post.

ps: If this violates some copyright law, could someone please tell me before I get in trouble?

--------------------------

Tips for Husbands to Reconnect

If you've been in an emotionally abusive relationship, Dr. Steven Stosny explains, you almost certainly have developed habits of emotional disconnection. For instance, touch and eye contact are usually the first things to go in distressed relationships.


Establish a daily routine of brief but consistent moments of emotional connection with your wife:


Hug at least six times a day and hold each hug for at least six seconds. (Hold them that long to overcome any initial awkwardness.);

Take at least six seconds six times a day to appreciate her;

Have a weekly date night with just the two of you. (Inexpensive activities or just going for a walk alone together will do the trick.) This has to be as important as an appointment with your boss;

Adopt a brief daily ritual that expresses your wife's importance to you. For example, offer a single flower or a flower petal, light a candle, write a note or hum a few bars of a song you both like;

Imagine a permanent lifeline—like the kind the astronauts use in outer space—connecting you emotionally, no matter how far apart you are;

Take six seconds six times a day to think positively about her when you are not with her. This will make you behave more positively toward her when you are with her.

dewt,
Those tips are great. The only thing missing from the picture is my desire to reconnect. You might ask me “Then what are you doing on this board?” I wanted to reconnect but I also had days when I didn’t. I don’t know anymore.


If I hug her I might not get the same reaction from her so I’d rather not do it.

traicionado,
I believe I had both when I took my W to the altar.
You keep saying that love is not a feeling. What is love in your opinion?

On the other hand my WW called me from work three days in a row at least once a day (with no real reason). What does that say compared with 40hours of no communication that we had in the past?
She was very friendly last night whenever we were talking. I, on the other had, was not in a very good mood. I hope I didn’t show that but again, I couldn’t help but thinking of her being intimate with the OM.

Hey, Adrian...

I gotta weigh on the same thing Traic said (where's Eyeore these days?)

"I took my WW to the altar based on my feelings."

I challenge you on that. I believe you went with your wife to the altar based on your belief in your love.

That's how love is a choice.

Stay with me...I'm saying the same thing as Traic in my own way...

We are humans.
We have feelings.
Feelings are our information about our beliefs.
What we believe gives us our feelings.
We can choose what we believe.
Ergo,
Love is a choice.

See...you were gushy for your wife initially...infatuation plus time becomes a belief of love. You act lovingly, feel loved and get to the altar with a skip of joy, a hop of hope and a hiccup of fear...what if I'm wrong...what if...this feeling doesn't last? The only way to get through the "I do. I really do" part is to have your inner self overcome the fear by assuring it, you have faith in your love. You choose to believe and act lovingly.

Only way to get through what-ifs is with beliefs. What if she does this or this? I will choose to love her anyway. I choose forgiveness, intentional forgetfulness; on the conditions of remorse and ownership. We had these naturally with the infatuation, "fusion" stage early in marriage..."Did I say something that upset you? Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't say that well." We are concerned for our partner's feelings but sure of their belief that they love us.

Then some of us get enmeshed and instead of being concerned, we take over and on all our partner's feelings...if they are unhappy, it is us...if they are happy, it is our fault...if they are angry, we did something...or didn't do...on and on.

The belief errodes...love lags...another point where your faith, choosing to believe in what you can't see is crucial. Love is there. It is a choice. As Somebody76 said, "How can you choose to fall out of love with someone?"

You don't. You use beliefs to do that, which give you feelings of resentment, hatred, anger, rejection, wanting to hurt back, punish to stop your pain...and there's no information coming to you about love. Only that it hurts.

Reminding yourself every day that you choose that pain, that loving anyway, eases off the pain...no longer is the source outside of you...your choice. Accepting the pain diminishes it greatly. Your choice. Your power. You believe in your wife, but the WW could kill your love because SHE is the imposter, not the lady who took YOU to the altar...(insert wink wink here)...

We have responsibility for our thoughts, feelings and beliefs...because we DO control them. Do not decide to act on them, but on our beliefs...the adult ones are best, I find.

You can do this. Have faith in what you can't see...choose to believe Harley and all the other guys who say love is, doesn't die...your choice. How you love is your choice, also. Depends on who you really want to be.

Entitlement will kill all relationships.

Love is a gift...you give yourself, through your choices.

Stay present. Do not make response-based choices...choose from your beliefs because then you are being true to yourself.

What does loving yourself feel like?

LA

LA.


I’ve read your post but I have to read it again. Lots of information there and I don’t want to wrongfully interpret it. But I can answer for this:

Very simple: absolutely GREAT.

Today, my WW called me 4 times from work! Every time she called from her work desk phone. She knows I see on my call display the number. She had no particular reason, except for the fourth time when she told me she was going to be late. She had a doctor appointment the other day so she had to recuperate the time she lost. Ask me if I believed her. I chose to believe her. You like that LA, don’t you? I choose…

You are just pandering to me, Adrian...

Keep it up. I needed it today.

You can wrongfully interpret anything I post and you still won't be wrong. 'k?

Did you feel great about loving yourself last year?

You can't make me ask you if you believe her. Neener neener. How do you feel about your choice? Eyes wide open with choice. How does that feel?

LA

Hey adrianc,

My 24 hour rule is in effect. I have a huge headache too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

LA,
What do you think about my WW calling me 4 times yesterday? Is it a good sign or is it something related to her communicating with the OM?

Why do a WW have good days and bad days? In good day a WW would be friendly, happy, willing to communicate, act normal, but in a bad day she would try nothing but to make a BH’s life a living h3ll.

traicionado.
I know you’ll be back… as a different person.<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

What was that ONE word I told you to remove from your vocabulary? Hmmm...Let me go back in your thread and see if I can find it...

Adrian

I'm going to be blunt, hope it does not upset you ..

as a FWW I just want to say that your WW wanting to send your DD to Romania with her parents seems to me very much like 'clearing' the decks. In other words assuaging her guilt so she can get it on with OM.

I do not think it a good move in any way, it removes another tie to her family unit, you & DD, and allows her to move as she wants with OM.

I'm sorry but I think you are playing straight into her hands here, whats next?
Some crazy idea of renting out DD room to the OM?
That you can all still be 'FRIENDS' ?????

Adrian, I cannot but think that if the A was truly over for good - remember they may be playing it cool while mum & dad are still here - then your WIFE WOULD NOT WANT TO BE PARTED FROM WHAT IS A IMMENSE TIE within the family unit, your child.
I didn't, I would have crawled over broken glass if it meant keeping the family together. it still seems like big time fog talk and you are just rolling over.

I DO think you should very very carefully consider this, get professional advice from the Harleys for goodness sakes URGENTLY, otherwise you may find yourself minus wife and then your child for many years.

Eamil or ring them right now and get advice from those who have seen this scenario over and over ..if it costs a bit now in calls what do you think a dv will cost?????

I know! I know! :::jumping up and down with my hand in the air:::

Pick me! Picke me!

I'm really annoying this way.

As for the calls...Adrian...you can't know. One day, she may be flooded with great memories, realizing what a marvelous husband and family...or just one tender one of something you did...and the next, her resentment, anger, guilt, shame all pile up to give her lots of entitlement thoughts and memories. Being WW is like hang-gliding on air currents that take you where they want to...because you're living from your feelings.

Recognize how much calls contain your essential ENs...conversation, attention, acceptance...list them.

Enjoy and celebrate you know this about yourself. Something you shared with your wife before. Those are the facts.

Pick your hopes carefully, Adrian. Relish what is right now and let go the guesswork (assumption/mindreading is a DJ)...

You're doing really well, kiddo.

Now answer Trac's (I'm leaving it at that spelling, so deal with it) question...heehee

LA

traicionado,
I believe the magic word is WHY.

aussieswife,
I would like to thank you for your post and also to let you know that in no way you upset me.
I want to understand if your opinion is based on your understanding that we have one DD? There are two DDs. DD2 would go back to Romania but DD1 would stay here. The deck would not be clear. I agree that having both DDs here would fill the deck and might help better with ending my WW’s A. But I can’t force my WW to do it. She will have to do it by herself. I can only stay in plan A for now. She might tell me the A is over and act normal, but on the other hand she might do things behind my back.

I believe that the A is over. I believe that my WW does not know what to do to work on the M. The bad part is that she doesn’t want anyone’s help. At least not now. I believe she doesn’t want a divorce and she doesn’t want to have a double life.

I haven’t checked her email in a long time. There will come a day when I’ll do it. If I find that there was contact then I will simply get a divorce.


LA,
The calls don’t contain much ENs. Let say that she showed that she cared about me by telling me that if I went home for lunch my MIL would leave me my meal on the stove. But that’s pretty much it.

Adrian

No I was taking into account the two DD, its that DD2 being the youngest, I assumed that dd2 was the younger, requires MORE family work & commitment, in a WW foggy thoughts you find strange things going on.

I do think the idea is crazy to be honest. It sets up the argument that the family is already broken up etc etc and THAT makes it easier for a WW to think there is not much damage being done as she has 'protected' the youngest or the one see shes as vulnerable.
Let alone the estrangement it may cause with DD2.
How can being sent 1000's of km away from mum & dad & sister be 'better than day care'???????
Sorry Adrian you have lost me on that logic.
It sounds like selfish WW fog talk. JMHO

I do notice you do not mention ANY professional counselling or advice ???? I feel you would be so much better off if you were getting this. MOST successful long term reocveries involve the help of professional counselling in some form or the other from what I have seen here.

REMEMBER Adrian, affairs need not just be physical and involve SF, they can also be EMOTIONAL and if she is still talking & interacting with the OM, even at work only, then the affair HAS NOT ended. Its just gone underground.
Her reluctance to even talk about MC and her very defensive attitudes when you mention the word "affair' indicates she still is in one. Might be in the dying stages and if so NOW is the time to get professional advice about what TO DO now!!!

Aussieswife

I know it looks strange, weird, crazy, abnormal to you to send DD2 1000’s km away. But right my WW is NOT capable of looking after herself. How is she going to take care of both DDs in the evening, even though I will be there 100%? She simply isn’t capable.

I believe my WW will miss DD2 shortly after her departure and sooner than we expect we’ll be on a plane bringing her home.

I might have lost my mind but how would DD2 stop my WW to use MSN Messenger, email, and phone while she’s at work to keep her A going? I she wants to have contact with the OM she’ll do it whether or not DD2 is here.
As I said before, having DD1 would keep us busy and in the same time give us (myself and WW) the opportunity for some UA. Isn’t that necessary? I am in no way trying to get rid of DD2. Both DDs mean absolutely everything to me and I love them more than anything in the whole world. I am only trying to save my M. I guess lots of people on this board think that I am an idiot only because I consider the idea of sending DD2 away. For 8 months. It is painful for me only writing down the number of months she’ll be away.


My WW said that she will never go for MC because she won’t discuss her problems with a stranger, the way I do it. She hates MB and this forum. Are you suggesting that I should go for a session with Harley myself only?

I know that very well. But it’s my WW who has to stop the A.

So your mother coming over option is definitely off the table? Sorry I took some time off, on what page of your thread can I read about your exposure phone call to OM's parents. I missed that. I would like to go back and read it.

I think WW wants to avoid counseling because lying is stressful to her.

I guess it's over. I told her I read her emails...

And you told her that because?

And now you are convinced it is over because?

Cut me some slack. Don't just drop a bomb like that and walk away. Remember what I said about being your own worst enemy? Fear of success? etc? What has been going on and why this sudden revelation?

traiciondao,

I owe you an apology. I shouldn’t have just thrown that post with no details. That was not my intention. I though that posting would calm me down but I was wrong. I was too nervous. I shouldn’t have posted anything last night…

Here is what happened. We had a tensed Saturday. Every since my WW woke up she was nervous, in a bad mood, she raising her voice at the kids… In a few words a mess. We took DDs to the playing ground. Not to much talk between us. In the afternoon we went to buy a present for a 3 year old girl whose party is today. We talked in the car about the future. Not a very good conversation given the fact she was sarcastic.

I checked her emails. Obviously there has been contact every day. Strong contact.
I told her that I can’t accept anymore her lies. She started screaming
“What lies, what lies?” Her mother was there.
I asked my WW: “Look into my eyes and tell me that you didn’t lie to me. That you had no contact with OM.”
My WW: “I didn’t lie.”
Me: “I know you had contact” (her mother was still present)
My WW (screaming): “Who told you that? How do you know?”
Me: “Because I’ve checked your emails. You just emailed your affair partner 2 hours ago.”
My WW: “I knew you couldn’t trust me. That’s why I told you there was nothing we could do about our M.”
Me: “I understand that the truth bothers you.”

And from there the conversation was a real mess.

This morning she took her laptop and left. I don’t know where she is. Maybe at work. I don’t know.