So she got caught in a big fat lie, which she denies. Now she got angry and left.

Hope you go out and have some fun today.

"Not a very good conversation given the fact she was sarcastic."

And your response should be..."Sarcasm is abusive. Stop."

Doesn't stop...probably replies with more.

Stop the car. "If you do not stop the abuse, you will have to walk."

"No way!"

Then you get the keys and the DDs and get out and walk away. No kidding. No abuse, 'k?

And kudos on your "I understand that the truth of your choices bothers you."

Well, I know that's what you meant. Emphasize her choice...to lie, to cover up, to contact. And yes, in front of her parents.

Hugs for the blowout...and hugs for doing what you did...because that's what you did, 'k?

LA

My WW was missing for three hours today. She came back home smiling like nothing happened last night. Not much talk between myself and WW.
We are preparing to leave for the indoor playground. I wonder how she will act in the presence of my (our) friends.

BTY, I checked her email. I wasn't curious if she emailed the OM. I meant I tried her password just to find out if it still works and obviously it doesn’t anymore. The good part is that at least I won’t be tempted to check her emails anymore.

.
I didn’t notice any help from my in-lwas. Perhaps they were shocked.

One more thing. I DID call the OM’s parents today and I told them about the A. They didn’t believe me. “Perhaps you don’t know him very well” his mother said…

I will post after the indoor playground party.

Ask for their help, Adrian. Ask your inlaws to fight for their grandchildren, please.

Ask them what they think, what they advise, what you could do different. Tell them your pain, anger, frustration and fading love. Tell them. They live with you...you are all in this together for another month.

Send copies in the mail of WW's emails to OM's parents, please. Why? Because you waited too long, sweetie. He got to them first.

Mail them and call OMW and let her know you did this. Ask her if she wants copies as well.

I would.

Part of exposure.

LA

It is too late LA. I will look for a lawyer and end this.
I will mail OM’s parents those copies because I’ve got nothing to loose anyways.

My FIL is in shock. He thought that things were getting better. He’s desperate. My MIL told me that she cannot help us. She said that there was nothing she could do about it.

I am going to talk again with my FIL tonight. I am going to do it but deep down in my heart I feel that I don’t want to be with my WW anymore. This is what I feel right now. I know the pain will not vanish if I file for separation but it will fade in time. Maybe it’s going to take 3 months, maybe 3 years. I don’t know. But I have to do this. I will tell her that I want the DDs. Last night she was not that much interested in them. The day before yesterday she was… No consistency at all. Anyways, I will do it after I speak with the lawyer.

Today, after she came back from wherever she was roaming, she was in a good mood. At the playground she spent most of the time with DDs. No wonder. Nobody wanted to talk to her. Except the ones who don’t know about her A. We came back. No talk in the car except with DDs. She told me after we got home that she’ll take DD1 to day care tomorrow because she’s not feeling very well so she’ll call in sick. One minute she’s in a good mood, next minute she not feeling well…

adrianc,

Do you have copies of the emails? If so, forward them to the OM's parents either electronically or by fax or DHL. Put the evidence in their hands.

Get your IL's right in the middle of this for the short time they have left. Make sure MIL sees the evidence but let her make her own decision as to what to do. Don't guide her but do remind her she should take responsibility for her DD as a loving mother.

It is interesting to hear your reaction to the email reading. A few weeks ago, you went into a downward spiral every time you did. This time you took it in stride and used it in positive ways. You are growing up.

Adrian...to feel no pain will take six years.

That's a whole lot of ten days strung together.

Tell her no to disrupting DD1's routine. That since she isn't feeling well, you told your parents she would be home sick tomorrow, so not to worry. You'll take DD1 to day care.

And if you have to see a lawyer, you do that.

It is only the first step on a very long road.

Please consider Plan B after you know from the lawyer how to get her out of the house and keep the kids.

I know it is Canada...but affairs matter! Get a lawyer that they matter to!!!

((((((((((Adrian)))))))))))

You are not alone.

LA

be very careful what you say and do from now on. Never speak a word in anger. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law - just like they say on TV. WS's rewrite history during the A. They do the same during a D too. Just be careful. Remember: if you can't say nuttin' nice, don't say nuttin' at all.

I have copies for some of the emails. Mail is the only option. OM’s parents don’t have email or fax…

I got goose bumps when I read this. You’re scaring me.

I don’t know about plan B… As I’ve said before, everything we have we share. Including the mortgage and I can’t afford the payment by myself. We’ll have to sell the house.
I would do anything to keep the DDs therefore I am looking forward to talk to a good lawyer.

I am hoping that we won’t get that far (court of law). Am I too naïve?

One thing: Should I talk to the OM? Not that I know what to say to him but… any ideas, any suggestions?

Unless you have a very specific agenda, I would not talk to the OM. He has no interest in helping you end the A. Quite the contrary. Leave him alone.

I don't know whether it will get that far (court) but neither do you. An ounce of prevention... You will not be able to take back later what you say and do now. Don't create the potential problem. You have no clue what I am talking about and that is okay. Just trust me on this. Be very careful.

adrianc,

DO NOT USE MAIL!!!!

Use DHL and only DHL. It can't cost more than $20 or $30 USD so, what is that in Canadian? $17,000 or $19,000 Canadian? Cheap at the price. You will be able to track it the entire way online and will take maybe two days to Europe. Send it by DHL ASAP (i.e. PDQ) on the QT OK?

I will call again the OM parents today. I got disconnected last time when I spoke with his mother. I will give her more details and see what she sais.
I will also look into DHL.

I put the SAA book in my WW briefcase. I also put a stick note on the book saying “Maybe someday you will read this book and you’ll understand”. No other words.

She emailed me first thing this morning:

Your wrote me: “Maybe someday you will read this book and you’ll understand” What should I understand? The reasons for you have checked my emails? Was that the way you were planning to trust me, to bring me closer to you, to “recover our marriage”?

I believe I understand how difficult is for you to go through what you are going through and maybe my brother was right when he told me that I should’ve filed for divorce first and then start looking to get involved with OM. Now it’s too late. I have hurt you and made you suffer. But all your attempts to make things better between us were just attempts to punish me, to take my peace, happiness and satisfaction that are left away from me. You should’ve thought about what pushed me to end up in this situation and tried to find the root cause and eliminate it. You should’ve created and friendly environment in our home to attract me there not to want me to leave from there. This is what I wanted to make you understand and I don’t have a book to give it to you to read.
Signed,
WW

I replied to her saying only that she’ll give herself an answer to her own question (What should I understand?) if she reads the book.


It’s frustrating for me that in her opinion it’s not OK fro me to check her emails but it’s OK for her to lie to me on a daily basis.

It appears to me that we are getting closer and closer to the D-Day.

Hear your frustration, know that you didn't bank on getting any other response but what you did, Adrian.

You're smart. You understand the reason for her lies, but you are still buying into her beliefs instead of keeping to your own yard. Your nose will get bit. :::handing you a bandaid:::

Her email really lays on blame, disrespect for herself and for you, and her knowing but not owning the devastation she has caused. This is fog babble. Lemme know if you need me to translate.

Do you hear her pain, frustration, inner child leading her life? Her hearing truth and bending, twisting and blaming. She's 6-years-old and believes she is powerless, though she is an adult and is throwing her power away left and right.

She's fully reactive. Is that how you want to be?

You are struggling to make her see and believe your truth...because you are believing hers. You believe her snooping (invasion of privacy) belief holds water when you know it doesn't. That's where your frustration is storming in...she can dish out all the blame she wants, equal oranges with apples, add up numbers and get letters, but that is HER truth, not yours. Unless you believe it, too.

You said you didn't. You said you knew your truth and could allow her to have hers, seperate and equal to yours. I don't think you've practiced that respect issue or you would know, this is too sad, pitiful really, to be this person in that truth. No power of choice, no owning consequences and desperate to stop being made to feel wrong...when no one but herself is doing that.

I'm very concerned because this is what you take with you into a new life, if that's what comes, years down the road...it is what you teach your children, what is passed on, and the torment (and dependency) continues. What a legacy. I know you want to get this, because you want to be free of the frustration you are causing yourself...you want to know your power, feel it, and be free of resentments you are creating by believing someone else's truth and betraying yourself.

I just know it.

LA

LA,
Please do so.

I just love it when you ask me translate...

(Btw, did you see Snuggles post to you on a thread she created? Didn't want you to miss it. Lemme know when you read it.)

:::cracking my knuckles to limber up and get rolling on Fog Babble 101:::

"Maybe someday you will read this book and you’ll understand” What should I understand? All the pain I've caused you and my family? You want me to own that? I won't. I refuse. I've decided to only take what isn't mine. I would not have lied if you hadn't caught me in the lies...by checking my emails. How dare you bring me out of my fantasy that I wasn't lying because no one was calling me on it! You have no right. I'm working my butt off to AVOID reality and there you are, just handing it back to me...you just have to be right all the time, don't you?

Was that the way you were planning to trust me, to bring me closer to you, to “recover our marriage”? Because bringing truth into our marriage right now is a really bad idea. I hate myself for not being worth anyone's trust, and my lies to myself really are putting distance between us so I don't have to rub up against your pain and guilt, which are half mine. No, no, no...I like being out of pain, out of reality...recovering our marriage...bah! I hate the idea. I was perfect in our marriage and you caused all my pain. I don't want to recover that! I'm running so hard away from myself because the marriage caused me pain. Yeah. That's it.

I believe I understand how difficult is for you to go through what you are going through and maybe my brother was right when he told me that I should’ve filed for divorce first and then start looking to get involved with OM. I said maybe. I am not admitting I might have been wrong in my choice or anything...heck, I maybe should have told you when I was unhappy or felt disconnected to you...but I made the right choice to ditch reality. It was a lot quicker fix and a lot less painful to do that then tell you what I was feeling and have you jump all over to fix me. Felt like I couldn't fix myself. Felt incapable next to you. So this is what I came up with for a fix...and boy, am I smart!

Now it’s too late. Too late to go back and do things the right way, the way someone who isn't an idiot would do. My quick fix has hurt you and made you suffer. But, but, but, but...it is still your fault you know. All your attempts to make things better between us were just attempts to punish me. Yeah...because I did feel punished...when you withdrew, went silent...I could feel me failing you so many times, and the girls. I wanted peace and confidence. I don't know why I am so defective, why you would love someone so defective...see? It IS your fault. Whew. Close one.

You gave me happiness for awhile, then you took it away, and the feeling that I knew how to fix myself and this was the fastest way gave me satisfaction. Recovering our relationship will take that away--I will feel like the guilty, shame-filled failure I am when I'm with you.

See, you should’ve thought about what pushed me to end up in this situation and tried to find the root cause and eliminate it. You have to fix me. You promised. You made me feel whole and so loved for so long...then you forgot about me. Loved the girls more. First was DD1...you fell in love with her and put her first. Then DD2 made it worse. You stopped being responsible for all my thoughts and feelings. So I got someone willing to do that for me so I didn't have to have them myself.

You should’ve created and friendly environment in our home to attract me there not to want me to leave from there. I am powerless and have no choices. You have to do all the work because I go where I am led. I made one choice, ONE choice on my own and proved I'm stupid. You should have covered up for me. You always have to be right.

This is what I wanted to make you understand and I don’t have a book to give it to you to read because there hasn't been one written that makes what I did any good for anybody, especially me.

Signed,
WW

Brought to you by

DJ, Inc.

All rights reserved. Prohibied where not sanctioned.

Not intended for ingestion. Call a physician if swallowed.

LA

Reposting this here....So that he can see it.

"First please let me introduce myself. I'm a BS of 12 years, my DDay was January 17th 2002.

My husband confessed to me, but full disclosure wasn't untill almost two years later.

The two A's had been over for a while, one for 4 years, the other for two.

I've spent the last couple days reading your threads, and I felt moved to write to you. Enough that I actually registered.

Adrian, I went crazy when I found out. Card carrying, stick throwing crazy. My husband and I have four beautiful children, I had been through multiple illnesses during those times, and I have a history of being betrayed, abused and abandoned.

But the agony I felt when he told me, and the continuing pain after until full disclosure to me, can't compare to anything else I've felt.

I'm glad to say I've followed most of Marraige builders suggestions, even though I didn't know what I was doing at the time. I told everyone, He called the one he could get ahold of and with me on the phone told her he confessed, how he felt about her (which was nothing) and told her never to contact us again.

She was I thought at the time my best friend, so it was a two sided betrayal.

Adrian, I know how you're feeling right now. Believe me. I know that at times you want to scream, cry, just run away sometimes too. That sometimes you want to stay in bed with the covers over your head, but you get up because of your children.

Even though he had confessed Adrian, he was still in the fog of denial and lies. He tried to make it "better" than it was. He even lied about what they looked like, made them "more attractive" until it came out that one was my best friend.

Unfortunatly or fortunately for me, I'm still not sure which, he had no feelings for either of them. He used them as an "outlet". Some part of me thinks thats worse, because he was able to betray me with no other motivation than to have release.

I was very ill, pretty much bedridden at the times he did this, and what he did I still haven't been able to move past completely. But I HAVE been able to move past it enough that I know I still love him, and he still loves me.

The point I'm trying to make Adrian is this...
Full disclosure means full disclosure. Of everything. If you have to do the exposing, so be it. Give the affair no place to hide. Change the things that allowed it to happen.

In my case, I now know where he is at all times, he carries a phone with him and calls me, I take care of all finances, so that I know where money is going to, and that he's working when he says he's working. We don't do things outside the home without each other. No single friends, and no friends of the opposite sex.

My husband and I told my family, his family, his co workers, our friends. He even told Father Peter. He went to anger management, and told them there as well.

It was a requirement for me Adrian, I didn't want a repeat ever again. By either HIM telling, or MY telling...no holds barred....it gave him no place to go to allow him to do it again.

If you give this A even so much as a shadow, or shade...it won't die easily. Or if it does, then it leaves room for it to happen again with someone else. Fantasy can only last in dreams, not in bright daylight.

In your threads I read that you aren't sure you have feelings for your betrayer anymore.

I felt the same way. At times I was sure I hated him, hated everything about him.

What I hated was the way I felt, how what he did hurt me, made me bleed inside. What I hated was the loss of innocence and trust. I hated feeling weak, weeping, not being able to sleep or eat. I hated what he had done to our family, our children, me.

I didn't hate him.

Guilt consumes people eventually, thats what happened with him. When he finally told me was actually when our marraige was going very well. I had lost weight, gotten healthy, I was 60 lbs lighter than when we married. He had a new job, a better one. The kids were happy, we went places, had a nice home.

He waited until he thought our marraige was strong enough, to tell me. Because he wanted to save it. What he had done was eating him alive, he had villified me to others to justify himself...and he realized that if he didn't set things right eventually it would end us.

I thought I hated him for that too.

I didnt, what I hated was the loss of happiness and security.

The numbness you feel right now is protecting you, it's like the water that happens when you get a blister. Human beings can only take so much before they start to shut down.

Please don't lose hope Adrian, its what keeps us going. Keeps us waking up and looking at the sun.

There are things I can't do now, because of triggering. That I mourn, because I loved to do them. There are times when I still cry, because I was and am so deeply in love with him I could never think of betraying him.

He still tells me he's sorry, and tries to reassure me. But the blind trust is gone. I miss it, I mourn it too. I want the ability to laugh in someones face if they make a comment about someone else being in the picture.

I want the security of knowing my heart and my body will never be put in jeapordy again.

I want the deep and comforting warmth I used to have whenever I was with him. It's still deep, but the comfort is much less than it used to be.

This isn't an easy road Adrian, but its so worth while. You learn things about yourself that you never knew, you find such strength through adversity. You open your eyes and appreciate things you didn't even realize were there."

Please, don't give up easily.
Snuggles

Snuggles...I almost posted to your thread. I read it and told Adrian to look for it. Such a gift you have given him and others. So many others.

I think you could have your own thread, in Recovery, and it could change your life. You give, allowed to be given to, shared with and supported. You're worth it.

LA

I don't know why this bothers me but it is a thorn. I wonder when this conversation between WW and BIL took place. What bothers me more than anything was BIL apparently saying the solution was divorce rather than ending the A. Why would BIL say that? He might know something important.

LA, your opinion please but I was thinking it might not be a bad idea if adrianc talked to BIL about that comment or have MIL (who has apparently thrown her hands up) or FIL (who still seems to be in the game) talk to BIL or else have adrianc talk to BIL in presence of MIL and/or FIL. I can't say exactly why I think this important but it just bugs me. I can't let it go. Adrianc can use the email as pretext to approach BIL just to better understand how that conversation between BIL and WW actually went. MIL/FIL might help BIL open up more or might get MIL/FIL more involved. Don't know. I can see pluses and minuses. I seem to remember that adrianc's history with BIL has not always been the best which is why I think maybe having someone else there might help.