LA,

Thank you so much for your translation. I was amazed when I read it. And had a gooood laugh.

Snuggles,

I read your post. Made me think the whole morning. You made a good point saying that you didn’t hate him but what he’s done to your family and children.
My fear is that, like you also said, “the blind trust is gone” so how can I live the fear that it might happen again? I just don’t understand how you do it.

traicionado,

I know pretty well my BIL. He tends to say things before he thinks. I mean his mouth is sometimes quicker than his mind. He just throws in an idea and people try to make sense out of it.
I agree with you. He might know something but he would never tell me. I approached him several times but I couldn’t get anything from him.


Yesterday, there were a few emails sent between the OM’s W and my WW.
The OM’s W “thanked” my WW for everything she did. My WW was replying and basically she blamed once again the OM’s W and myself for everything… Then the OM’s W replied telling my WW everything she kept in her for so long. It was a long chain of emails and maybe I’ll find some time to translate it.

Trac and Adrian...

About BIL's advice...filtered through WW perspective. That's what she heard. It might have been the very last, exasperated thing BIL said, when she wouldn't stop blaming everything on everyone else (not just Adrian...remember, this woman is on/off again with her own brother). He might have begun with ending the A and ended up trying to back her into a harsh corner to admit ANYTHING.

It happens.

When WS are admant (did I say when?), then they can construe, selectively remember, filter any conversation to say what they want it to--that BIL AGREES with her that the only thing she did wrong was to begin with OM before divorcing.

That's the fog.

Don't forget...it isn't only a barrier between you and her. It is between you both and between her and herself.

And wow, what pain for OMW...if she'll email, why won't she come here, to have support? My heart hurts for both of you.

You can see how OM blamed his wife for everything, too...do you feel less pain in realizing this is usual for WS, or more?

LA

Lovinganyway,
Thank you for the words about posting in recovery...I'll think about it. I don't think my story is really that special though.

"Snuggles,

I read your post. Made me think the whole morning. You made a good point saying that you didn’t hate him but what he’s done to your family and children.
My fear is that, like you also said, “the blind trust is gone” so how can I live the fear that it might happen again? I just don’t understand how you do it."

Adrian, I do it by going day by day. Minute by minute. I allow myself to dream, and follow those dreams. I went back to school and became an EMT, right now I'm going for my intermediate. (The person who rides on ambulances and keeps your heart beating)

I found something that could give me "control" back. Being an EMT gives me value, Martial arts gives me control. I started taking Hapkido. I'm a yellow belt now, working on my Orange.

The person who took your life can't give it back, because you don't really WANT the life back you had before. That life allowed this to happen. Grieve for it, mourn for it....weep and get angry. Then let the old life go, like you would a loved one who has passed on.

The key is making a NEW life. One thats stronger, and better than before. They have to know you would rather do this with them, but that you'll do it regardless.

About trust...
Adrian, trust after a betrayal takes a long time. What you don't see though is that it will take you just as much time to trust someone new completely now, because of what's happened to you.

After so many years, so many things learned about each others, so many memories shared...believe it or not you DO still trust her. Just not with your heart. You trust her not to break your house and the things you own apart, you trust her not to injure the children. You trust her not to clean out your bank account. You trust her not to hurt herself or you. You trust her to be sure the children have clothes and food. I could go on for hours.

Trusting her with your heart again comes with effort, and a fully aware choice.

You have to choose to give them that chance. The chance to rebuild. The chance to ALSO hope and dream with you, beside you. To give them a place in life close to what they had before. The main difference is being aware, and alert for any warning signs...so that you can head another issue off at the pass.

Trust should never ever be given for free, and many times we do it because we are "in love" ...that doesn't mean we have to be "IN-sane" flinging ourselves from a cliff, blindly believing that the wind will catch us before we fall.

This horrible thing, when it happens....Teaches us to be careful. Like a child with a fireplace. When we find out how much it hurts to touch the fire....we don't stop using it. We don't let ourselves freeze from fear of it. We don't hate it or think its ugly, or banish it from our lives...do we?

No, we learn to be careful of it. To work with it, to utilize it and enjoy it in a safe way. We cook with it, watch it, play with it when we roast marshmallows. Sing around it.

Just because it burnt us...doesn't mean we can never trust fire again, only be aware of the dangers...and prevent them.

Love is like that. It burnt us, it HURT...terribly. We'll carry wounds from it, and eventually they'll fade.

But Adrian, we cannot ...we MUST NOT allow this burn to keep us out in the cold, shivering and afraid, because of a scar that will eventually fade. We MUST allow ourselves to ability to warm ourselves by it, and watch its glow.

No matter what else you lose faith in...

Don't lose faith in yourself, and your wonderful ability to love.


Snuggles

Snuggles, that was beautiful

LA,
You’re right. I’ve never actually heard BIL saying those things to my WW. Who knows what he’s told her (if he did tell her something)? WW might have interpreted the way she wanted.

I feel in a way less pain. But it still is too painful.

Snuggles,

I am speechless.

You can depend on people hearing through their own filters.

You do, I do, we all do...and there's no ice cream involved. (Twisted American thing, Adrian.)

Why do you feel less pain when you know that OM blames his wife for everything, also?

Why is this too painful...it is pain, any may be too much bcause you don't want it at all. Knowing what knowledge lessens that hurt isn't for crisis management, but a way of living. Your power. Your part. Your choice.

Lemme know what you're feeling and how you're doing, please.

Report in, Sgt Adrian. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

Adrian please let us know how you're doing,

Snuggles

It proves me that I’m dealing with weak people and I feel superior them. I am talking about my WW and the OM.

My way of living is: Have a family, a spouse you love, trust, respect, cherish and so on. Love your children (they are your blood), show them your affection, play with them, teach them only good things, be there for them, do anything for them. When they smile and laugh your life is fulfilled. Try to do only good in life, help people, and wish for the best for everybody.

I feel frustrated. I am very nervous, agitated. I simply can’t find my place.

Here is the chain of emails between the OMW and my WW. Myself and the OM were CC on these.

OMW to my WW:
I really wanted to thank you for all the “good” things you did to me for the past few months. I am not going to go in the details, it would’ve probably been better if I haven’t written this email, but I can’t do only good all the time. I thank you for destroying my marriage, for taking my happiness, for taking my H away from me in the moments I needed him the most. You weren’t happy? I hope you are now. My DS thanks you for taking his father away from him. When you’ll see your H playing with your DDs think about that my DS will play with his F only during the weekend, and ask yourself why? And God forbid if something worse will happen I hope you have a big consciousness so you can live with that.

I would say more about everything that happened but I don’t think it matters anymore.

Signed,
OMW


My WW to OMW:
I believe you are in contradiction with yourself. If I saw my H playing with DDs then I would be home with him, not with your H that you said I took away from you. I am not the one who took him to the lawyer initiating the divorce procedure, and the one telling him to leave the hose because I couldn’t live with him under this circumstances and wanted to have peace. On the contrary, I was the one who told him to think twice (perhaps he will be upset because I say that), not to give up everything he has only for a hope. I was the one who told him that I would not have the strength to go through the hard moments he’s going through right now and I couldn’t get divorced.

Better thank all the friends who give you and my H “well intended” advices you both followed and caused everybody more pain rather than good.

Signed,
WW


OMW to my WW.
I am in no way in contradiction with myself. If you are home with your H and DDs, you have no strength to file for divorce, but you have the strength to continue email him love messages, to feed him his hopes. I cannot live in lies, the way you two do. I am not happy with my H living with me and being in love with another woman. If he is my H then I want him to be mine and that’s why I took him to see the lawyer and tell him to leave if he can’t stay home. I was the one who begged him to stay, even this morning (perhaps he forwarded you all my emails I sent him because it looks like you have to know everything that is happening in my house and in my soul) to think again and stay home with me and DS because I can go over the fact he’s been cheating on me and been lying to me and so on, but he cries and tell me he can’t stay. Why can’t he stay? You tell me, because it looks like you know him better than me. Tell me what promises have you made him that he can’t stay with me? Tell me whys does he cry and he doesn’t want to stay with me and is difficult for him? Isn’t this what he wanted? Didn’t the both of you want to be free and move out together? You found all kinds of reasons not to do it. First, I was pregnant, then I was about to deliver the baby, then to wait for… whatever. What are you two waiting for? What do you want? You two drove crazy two families and didn’t get to any result.

You both got sick, it’s obvious that there is something wrong with the both of you, and slowly you drove me crazy (I don’t know who your H can take this anymore). If you two would move together I would understand. You love each other. People get married and then get divorced. We wouldn’t be the first couples doing this. But the way it is right now, I don’t understand. I have the feeling that that we are waiting for something and I don’t know what it is. I don’t want to wait any longer, I want to know if it’s black or white – that’s why I want to get divorced or have a husband. You two said it was over, that was another lie because we all know that you’re still writing each other the same brainless teenager things. I don’t know if you two meet each other anymore but that doesn’t matter.

I don’t know which one of you started this relation but I am blaming you because I clearly remember your words when we were at a pub one day. You said that the woman is leading the man and drives him the way she wants. You twisted his mind the way you wanted and now he can’t even think straight. Don’t worry, he’s as guilty as you are and I am blaming the both of you not for what you’ve done but for what you are still doing. If you said it was over then why isn’t it over, why are you two not together? It’s not possible for him to be with you and with me at the same time. I cannot accept that. Would you like to stay each other home and continue your relation? That is not possible. I cannot accept that either. I believe I’ve waited enough and I’ve had enough patience because you said you needed time. Well, I don’t have time anymore, that’s why I’m pushing for separation.

He didn’t want to separate? He never asked me once to wait a little longer and think twice. He only took me in his arms; cried and told me he didn’t know how we ended up in this situation. He never said he didn’t want to leave. He told me he couldn’t stay.

Can you explain me what do all of these mean? Explain me what did the two of you have in your heads when you started your relation? If you had anything… You obviously didn’t think about me being pregnant, about your DDs or your H. You were just two selfish people.

I keep ask him how it happened but he wouldn’t tell me. I just want to understand how and mostly what happened. We were friends, good friends and we’ve spent all the important moments in our lives together and if my friend is capable of doing this to me then what should I expect from my enemies?

I am in so much pain and I didn’t deserve this. I was pregnant and you should know how difficult it is because you’ve been there twice.

If you tell him to think twice and not give up everything why are you keep feeding him the hope? If you’re done with him why are you replying to his messages?

All these are questions that only the two of you can answer. He doesn’t want to give me any answer saying that he would hurt me even more. Maybe you can answer because you don’t care how much I suffer.

Signed,
OMW

There was no response from my WW after this.

Tuesday, after I read these emails I left work and picked up DD1 from day care and took her home. I used the bathroom and then put my shoes back on. My WW asked me:
“Where are you going?”
Me: “I just want to be alone and I will go for a drive.”
My WW: “What happened?”
Me: “Nothing happened. I just want to be alone and I will go for a drive.”
Then I stepped out.
I went to a church and stayed inside for about half an hour. Left the cell phone in the car. When I got back I saw that she called me about 2 minutes before. While I was starting the engine she called again. I thought that something was wrong with DDs so I picked up.
My WW: “Where are you?”
Me: “I’m on Major Mackenzie Drive.”
My WW: “What happened?”
Me: “Nothing happened.”
My WW: “I was waiting for you with dinner and than I wanted to go with you to the shopping mall and look at the leather jacket you liked.”
Me: “I’m sorry, I just wanted to be alone and I went for a drive.”
My WW: “You came from work and you just wanted to be alone. Do you think this is normal?”
Me: “I just want to be alone”
My WW: “OK”

She was somehow frustrated. I came back home around 8.00PM, spent one hour with DD1 and then took her to bad.

I ignored my WW next day (Wednesday) when she called me at work approx. 30 times. I never picked up. She emailed me telling me that she wanted to know how DD1 was in the morning when I took her to the day care. All of a sudden she’s interested in that! Argh! I didn’t reply.
Thursday she called me again and after she did it several times I picked up an told her that DD1 was OK. In the evening, at home, I only responded to her questions but didn’t initiate any conversation.
Today she didn’t call me, but my FIL took DD1 to the day care so I guess she had no reason to call me and I also believe that she’s somehow frustrated with the lack of feedback she’d getting from me lately.

Yesterday I put on paper my proposal on how to end the marriage. I didn’t show it to her yet and I don’t know what I am waiting for. Actually I do. It’s the DDs. I know My WW will live with them so that’s something that pulls me back. I cried after I read what I wrote in that proposal and I don't know what to do.

My WW: “What happened?”

Your wife had to realize you were CC'd in the emails!!! Why would she ask you what happened???

Someone said once on this board that the people having affairs are dumb. And that they make childish mistakes. I guess that's what happened. That's one option. The other one is that the fog is so thick... so my WW simply reacted like any other WW. I am not trying to understand her behaviour or her reactions.

InLikeFlynn,

One more thing. I have to tell you that I no longer have a wife. I have a WW. Huge difference.

Adrian,

No, but your WW reacted as she has...consistently. Deny reality (that you were cc'd) and do damage control by acting like she isn't tearing apart two families.

Expected, understandably and no less painful than being shot.

I was hoping your pain was less to see that OM treated his wife in the same way because then you would know that it isn't about who your WW is or him...but people in great denial about everything.

I find it lessens the blow to me when I know I'm not a specific target.

You aren't.

You're still a casualty right now, as are DDs and OM's family.

Thank you for posting the emails. I was applauding OMW's effort and my prayers became stronger because she didn't give into anything your WW said. She knows truth, hers and theirs and didn't allow your WW any place for her fog to spread.

LA

Maybe some day I won't be a casualty anymore. I could end this today. My choice. Not likely it’s going to happen because I am not 100% sure.

You’re right, the OMW knows truth. I know truth as well. I just don’t have the gift of putting it in writing the way she did. Big kudos for her. Arrgh! I wish I was better than I am.

Would you expect my WW to reply to the OMW’s last email? I doubt my WW would do it.

On the other hand, I set up a new due date. If I don’t change my mind by next Friday (March 24th) I will tell my wife I want the separation. It will be hard, but that’s what I've been feeling for the past week. I give myself another week to be sure…

Why will they live with her?

dewt,

This is Canada. You know how things are around here. The mother takes the kids...

IF you end up in court, yes, the odds are stacked against the Father.

However, if she leaves... that might be a different story.

When my FWW and I separated 2 yrs ago, I made it clear that if SHE wanted to leave the family unit, that was her choice. There was NO WAY that I was going to lose my boy because of HER affair. He stayed with me. I told her she could do what she wanted and my son and I would do our best to make sure she had a family to come home to when she came to her senses.

If your W leaves the home, and the children stay with you, you have a MUCH better chance. Dude, I would fight to my last breath over something like this.

adrianc,

Maybe it is time you learned about the CI and the BT. Anybody have any opinions?

Personally I think it was great the way you ignored WW. Shook her up a bit. As long as you have been in Plan A, your margin of error increases. IMO almost nothing you do right now is going to force WW to walk out the door. Something is keeping her feet planted and it is not you. I don't really plan my CI's in advance - they just happen almost without warning but, once begun, they to run their course. They save my sanity and recharge my batteries.

Obviously your greatest concern is losing your DDs in divorce but let me ask you this: at this moment (and assuming your WW leaves), what do you think is the more likely scenario - she abandons you and family and runs off with OM or takes children away and files for D?

I think you need to apply more pressure and try to mix things up a bit and especially before MIL and FIL board that plane. I am not going to offer advice on how because my methods defy explanation or reason. In my case I am convinced there is a hand guiding this process other than my own.

The short of it is that I do think it is possible that you can put on too good of a Plan A. WW should not be made to feel zero pain while the A is ongoing. I am afraid you might be becoming indifferent.

How about I forward the chain of emails between my WW and the OMW to MIL and FIL?
They have not seen it.

And traicionado, you're right. I've become somehow indifferent.

Yes, please forward those emails. Did you DHL to OM's parents?

"Arrgh! I wish I was better than I am." Adrian, you have all the abilities, way with words and truth that OMW has...you don't have the focus, I think.

She kept to a lot of I statements and didn't lie. When your WW asked you what happened, you said, nothing happened.

Why?

Whatever the outcome, I would like you to come to understand and now your power...of openness and honesty, to control your focus and be present in your life.

You matter. You can't stop mattering.

Answers:

"I'm flooded with pain right now and I'm leaving." You don't have to tell her where you're going or when you'll be back. You are actively taking care of yourself...going to the church. It isn't running away.

"I read the emails between OMW and you and am shocked you believe she caused pain. She said what I wanted to say."

"I need to pray for my family right now."

Anything but "nothing happened."

Stay strongly honest, Adrian...Plan A doesn't have a lie in it.

((((((((((())))))))))))))

LA

LA,

As I told you before, I am not spontaneous when it comes to things like this one. After I left I knew what I should’ve said… But it was too late…

I didn’t talk to her today, except for whenever she asked me a question.
The whole day I felt that I wanted to tell her about getting divorced. And yet I couldn’t do it. I believe the A is still going on and I can’t accept that anymore. I’ve had enough.