Personally I have gone weeks without tell WW ILY. I have also gone some weeks where I have said it several times a day. WW knows I love her. Whenever I tell her ILY, I only do that when I think she is struggling, I only do it to remind her that she is in a safe place and I only word it in a rhetorical way so that she knows she does not have to respond. I don't want a response because I already know her feelings - she doesn't have to tell me. That is just what I do - I am not saying you should do it. For example, you can say "I love you" or you can say "I know things are difficult for you right now but don't forget that I still love you".

When I would say ILY, I would be making a statement of choice for myself, outloud. Mine, not his. I think Adrian felt that love pop up...like saying "I appreciate laughing with you. I enjoy you."

What we tell others, we tell ourselves.

LA

Hey LA,

I guess if you go way back in this thread (and I am not saying this is going on now) I think adrianc thought that if he said ILY more than the OM, that he would win - almost like a competition. I also said adrianc should not necessarily follow my example (I think?). There is nothing wrong with saying ILY although I have seen others who said the contrary. I think it is important that WW be reminded of the stability and safety of her environment.

On the other hand, I have read a lot of inconsistency in adrianc's actions as of late and, if that has been the case, I think ILY is part of the way to fight back for that lost ground. In my case it was sort of like - okay I was away for a while honey but I'm back now. Sorry for that. I do prefer to word it in such a way that WW knows she is okay not saying anything. For me that helps us both. To be honest, if my WW were to say ILY2, I wouldn't know what to do. In fact, that very thing happened a couple of weeks ago and ended up in a small crisis. Personally I don't want to hear those words from WW for a very long time. Well, I do want to hear them, but I am a realist and know that it can't happen very quickly.

I am glad adrianc is back fighting. That is good. That indifference is a very bad thing. Best to be avoided as much as possible. Anger is better than indifference.

Oh, I wasn't arguing with you, Traic. No judgment. I know you choose your Plan A, your CI's and stuff. I get that.

I was just showing myself what I did...didn't say it outloud before.

What, you think I'm here for Adrian? This is MY self-help.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I remember my WH cringing when I would say it. After I posted, I thought a little more...I have said furtive, nearly silent ILYs; painful, wrenching ILYs; regretful ILYs; tender ones...wishful/hopeful ones...prayerful ones. An affirmation, manipulation, desperation...I have said it for all those reasons and more.

Like 2000 words for snow, there are as many ways saying ILY.

Question...if there are 2000 words for snow (Inuits), why hasn't mankind come up with as many for tears?

LA

If Inuits have that many words for snow, why is it that Arabs only have one word for desert? That has always bothered me for some unexplainable reason.

LOL!

You sound like me. Hey, maybe our purpose is to create those words...they were waiting for us.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

LA

(((Adrian)))

Strength is relative....Humans are such amazing beings. We live through things individually that seem harsh and heartless but we keep on walking.

Though we strive for perfection, if we were ever actually able to attain it, we would die out. Its only in adversity that we truly grow, change and overcome.

Right now I take Hapkido, "The way of co-ordinated power" the one I take is modified to include some other arts as well.

Its given me strength to stand up for myself, confidence, health. My instructor is my husbands "brother". Not blood, they are so close as friends they call each other brothers.

They are lodge brothers, Police brothers, friends and family. He helped us through many of the issues we had to face down here. We helped him as well.

Garner strength where you can find it, Had anyone told me back then that through someone I never thought I would trust..(I still have a hard time trusting men, the "ulterior motive" thing) That I would learn to defend myself both physically and mentally...

I would have stared at them and called them insane.

I know this is the hardest thing you've ever done, but I also want you to know I'm proud of you for clearing your head a little, and laughing.

Laughter is water for the soul. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Much love,
Snuggles

Come to think about it, you're right. It is the hardest thing I have ever done. So many times I thought I had a hard time but this is beyond everything.
I am laughing very often while I am at work. Sometimes I really enjoy it, sometimes I laugh for a few seconds and then, all of sudden I find myself thinking about my problem.

Have I really lost any ground? I know I’ve had a few rough days because of those emails and I think that things would be now the same even if I didn’t tell her ILY.

Anyways, last night was OK. She came home at 8.30PM (and I am saying was OK!!!). She was at work (called me from there). While she was taking a bath we discussed about going to basketball game sometime this week. She agreed. The she went to bed (DD1’s bed). She doesn’t sleep in the same bed with me anymore…

I called her this morning. We spoke about DD1 who will be taken to day care by my FIL. She said that she spoke with her MIL through messenger. I said:
“I thought you told me you didn’t have messenger at work”
My WW: “I know I told you that”
Me: “I have messenger too.”

She changed the topic and we ended the conversation.

hi all,
I am the OMW from Adrian's posts. I read everything you guys posted, all the advices you guys gave to Adrian. I chooce to post on his tread because you are all familiar with our situation. My, I don't even know how to call him anymore ex, still H or god knows what he is, suppose to move out next week, we have to sell the house and move on. this was my decision but I am going crazy right now and need your advice. should I wait another month with the selling of the house and tell him that I will wait for him for a month or should I just go and sell and finish everything. He gives me a lots of mixed signals he comes home and hugs me, kisses me and just cry and cry and tells me he is crying because he is sorry he made me suffer so much, I asked him, as you all know to stay home aas my husband and deal with his demons together, he is telling me he cannot do it, he wants to be with me but not like this.
Please let me know what you guys think.
As I said I posted here because you guys are familiar with our story, I am short of time (I am taking care of our son who is 7 weeks old, all by myself and not to much time to write) but if I have to I can open a new tread.
Thank you all

Welcome, boby...you are already my hero. I'm honored to meet you. What did you think of all our posts (that is a lot of reading for ya, new mama!) to Adrian? Anything helpful for you?

We will call your husband WH...for wayward husband.

Have you considered Plan A (what Adrian chose) or have you had any time to read about it?

There is also Plan B...which sounds like what you might be asking about waiting another month...these plans are to save your marriage.

We understand your pain and confusion...your WH isn't your H, but as Adrian says, they do bear physically a striking resemblance. You are not alone, not crazy and human.

You are already loved here.

I am so happy you signed on. I'm sure people will help you in every way they can.

LA

Thanks for the welcome,
I did not have time to read about plan A or plan B, I read all your posts. They are helpful,and maybe that's why I am posting today. because my mind was set divorce and end of story. But I am looking at my son and I say he does not deserve to grow up without a father (I am already 37 and with a baby people won't line up in front of my door to ask me out - and I think that nobody can replace his father) and also I remember the 13 year I spent with WH, never had an argument (at least not a serios one)even now when all these things are going on he comes home and act as if nothing happened, he calls me from work....and so one.
That's why i am asking your help right now, should I wait another month? What should i do?

Boby!!!!!!!!!!



Welcome.....

I am so glad you are here.....and I like that you are 'protected' here in the middle of Adrian's thread....

I LOVED your e-mails to adrian's WW....I stood on my chair and clapped my hands....


if you read here even a little, you will see that what you are going through, feeling and experiencing is shared by others....

your WH is not the first to seemingly go nuts and leave you feeling crazy....he is not the first to cheat on a pregnant wife....not the first to be so confused by what is happening inside of him that he is making crazy choices and saying insane things...

he seems really confused...this can be good....



something important for you to think about......

the most important thing right now, really....



Do you want to save your marriage...?

Do you want to TRY to save your marriage...?


think about this for a little while....really think about it...



we can talk later.



~ Dylan

Loving Anyway....


remember a nefarious thought regarding some sort of an 'intervention'...?

I remember thinking something along those lines, then remember you posting a thought about it...something with adrians wife coming home to find one and all involved sitting in the living room...

did I just dream that?..it is entirely possible.....



I think I am struggling with a direction to go in with all this....

maybe we can bat around different ideas an come up with some do-able scenarios.....the 'status quo' being enjoyed by all right now might need a shake-up

~Dylan

i can see you guys all like me already. makes me feel good. i do want to save my marriage, my WH means a lot to me, he was special for me. yes I said was because right now I am confused and don't know what to do, but I think about him as the father of my baby and then yes, yes, yes I want to save my marriage.
maybe with your help I can make the right decision.
thanks again for the welcomes

i did tell my wh lets seatdown all 4 of us and talk about all these
he said bad idea

Hey boby - welcome!

You can start your own thread if you like or you can stay here or do both.

First: Should you wait a month? Is there any problem for you if you do wait a month? If you can wait without any significant problems (financial that is) and are still willing, please wait the month.

This is a complex situation with a BH who wanst to save a marriage, a WW who is undecided and weak, a WH who has no spine and a BW is is angry, alone and devastated.

How are you feeling? I understand your thoughts about wanting your child to have a father because I have had those too. But sometimes those thoughts are not really about the children - they are about us. What I mean by that is, if your WH is really a bad person and would make a terrible role model for your son, you would have no doubts about divorce. There is no way you would want WH to be around him. Our thoughts get really confused about all this. So the question is what do you think you really want? An A is cowardice at best and what your WH did to you when you needed him most just makes me mad.

Do you still have any good feelings left for your WH? Is there a part of you that thinks you might be interested in saving the marriage not for your son but for you? Forget about what WH might do - you can't control that. What do you want? If you think that you might be interested in getting back to the marriage, then by all means wait. But do it for you - not because you feel obligated for your son.

You should read up on Plan A and Plan B, read the book Surviving an Affair and others referenced on this website. You need to understand those because, regardless of your ultimate decision, they will help you through this situation and possibly help save your marriage if that is your desire.

Don't follow WH's suggestion and sit down and discuss among the four of you. That is just weird. What does he hope to negotiate - conjugal visits with adrianc's wife? No - don't talk.

I am glad you are here. Whatever you decide, it will help you to talk about it. I do recommend you start your own thread but I also recommend you keep posting on this thread. You will know when to post where. Please keep posting. Whatever you decide, you will find nothing but friends here. You need to take care of yourself and your child.

Oh, Adrian...thank you so much for giving boby the encouragement to be here. I have great hope for both of you! Like a fresh injection...thank you, thank you, thank you.

Am I too wrapped up in your life, or what?

I wanted to stand on a chair and clap when I read boby's emails, but mine rolls. I'm too involved, but not nuts.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

John (dewt) has me going now...remembers my crazy idea...and boby has considered it. Do you mind if boby stays on your thread instead of one of her own? Would that be like a conflict of interest or something? I mean, your marriage is not her marriage and I tend to treat all marriages the same (I'm a symbolic creature)...so respectfully, I am asking what your thoughts are. Both of you.

I loved John's wrapping boby safely within your thread, Adrian. He's da writer man. He da writer.

My giddiness is from surging hope. Yes, I get silly. Deal with it.


boby,

I hear that you really want to make good decisions, for you, your son, and your history with WH. Reading all the articles here is essential. Widens what you know. So if you want to commit to giving yourself time to explore, ponder and gather more stuff to base your decision on, we don't mind. I think that's a pretty adult decision for now.

You said you had considered the four of you sitting down to talk. I envisioned something different...you, your son, Adrian, DDs, and inlaws all together in his livingroom, along with BIL and SIL, when WW comes home from work. Then, same group at your home when WH comes home from work.

Surprise! Not for revenge or to bend another human by stress...just a surprise reality. Like making what really is more concrete...you all matter, are important, and sounds like want to get some really grounded lessons out of this wrenching experience.

To hear you and Adrian coming at each WS with the MB recovery plan, knowledge of how great marriages work, well, that supports each other and takes the bite of "oh that stuff that brainwashes you online!" puff right out the window, doesn't it?

Something to think about. We already know you're brave, like Adrian, smart, strong and thoroughly loving. This would be asking a lot of each of you, so I will understand if you choose not to do it. I didn't do it (no family/friends around...and not that I thought of it either!); I don't think John or Dylan did either. Did you guys?

Traic? Snuggles?

I'm just praising God for both of your presence here. Welcome home, boby. And Adrian? See how expectations aren't real?

LA

LOL


VALIUM!!!....Loving Anyway needs valium....LOL...


her chair rolls...*snort*...
mine is a milk crate...goes nowhere


Dewt/john is in T.O. right now...and Dylan has taken over his computer...but he is always logged on and I ALWAYS forget to log him off before responding....


i couldn't remember if that intervention thought came from you or if I had just thought it in my own head...




Adrian!!....see what you've done to poor LA!!!


heh heh hehe....


yes, we are all 'involved'....so many praying, helping and hoping for both you and Boby....


~ Dylan

Hey LA,

I don't like the idea of the 4-way chat because it is done on WH and WW's terms. They obviously would have written the script beforehand. If there is going to be any chat, I like your idea much better and that, if it does occur, it will be a complete surprise. If the waywards are religious people, I would even invite a priest of their inclination to be present. I think that adrianc needs to maximize the use of the short time MIL and FIL have in Canada.

I like boby being in this thread but there are also issues she may feel more comfortable dealing with apart. If that is the case, a side thread might help her open up more. I think it is also great that BH and BW can share intel and help each other better understand what may be going on.

I just hope boby can find the strength to give WH and the M an opportunity. I don't think she has yet made that decision.

Hey adrianc,

You know a little bit about my situation. You know we have shared a lot of the same struggles and I have had those doubts and been ready to divorce. In fact, in December in Mexico I had all the papers with me and I was all ready to do it right then. Do you know what? I am crazy about my WW. Three months later and I totally love her. Time plays funny tricks. Don't base your decisions on transient feelings.

traic.....no WW or WH schedule or script.....dude...this is not an idea that came from them... or to be done on their twerms......this is something I thought about and LA had posted about previously....

~Dylan