This will probably be long, here goes. H and I have been married over 9 yrs, together 15+. We have two children 4 and 6. We fight ALL THE TIME! Literally 95% of the time. Many fights go on in front of the children. My husband has pretty much always been a taker. I am a people pleaser and natuarally a giver. He has always been very verbally abusive, and is a very angry person. I would be ashamed to put down some of the things he has said to me.

I have come a long way with personal growth since my children were born and I am happy with who I am, morally, physically, intelligence, personality, whatever. I always intend to continue to better myself, but I am happy with me. My husband is always mad at me. I used to think he was right and he would help me better myself, and I would try to change and make him happy and of course never could. He said a few mean things one time that clicked in my head as definitely not true and it's been down hill ever since.

We have been through three rounds of marriage counceling with three diff councelers with no improvements. My husband has completed an anger management course, which at the end of the classes I realized did no good when he told me it was my fault he is always mad. My taker started to show up about three or four years ago. In that time, I have hit rock bottom and asked for divorce/separation about 4 times. He cries and beggs and says the right things, then he then is a normal person to be around (not meeting my emotinal needs, or going over the top, just not being so angry and explosive). This usually only last for days or at most ever was a month.

Well, now my taker is here to stay and my giver doesn't want to give any more. I used to try to please him, then for years I've tried to avoid making him mad, now I can't even seem to force myself to fake it. I KNOW, that's right, KNOW, that whatever I do to change things will result in a full circle w/in 30 days and I'm not willing to do that to myself anymore. I feel like it is time to move on but I don't want to be the 'bad person' by filing. He will call me a quitter, but I've read many books, stayed up many hours reading advice on-line, changed my apporach to the situation numerous times, I set up all 3 marriage counceling sessions, I've sought advice from both of our mothers and more. He has done little more than go thrity days or less w/out name calling and temper tantrums.

I wish I could work things out and be happy with him, but he's no friend (he judges and shames), I don't trust him with my feelings (he uses them against me) and whenever I ask for a need met, he starts with "What about mine!" This makes me so angry because I feel like I've tried for so long, too long, to make him happy. I believe he is depressed, he lives a depressive lifestyle, and is insecure. But he doesn't feel that way and has no interest in changing himself. I excercise, take care of myself, try to keep learning new things, keep up friendships etc, but it doesn't rub off on him. He is a good father for the most part, except of course when he is critising me in front of the kids or saying they're screwed up because of me in front of them. My reactions are either to get angry and yell back, which is counter productive I know, or ignore him, because I realize that he is a brick wall so why bother. When I ignore him, he gets really angry and verbally abusive to provoke me, so that doesn't help either.

I don't want to try anymore because I know where it will end up. I want so badly to be in a happy relationship and not be so lonely and sad. I've asked for a separation before because I thought if I could get over some of my bad feeling toward him, we could try again. He won't do that for me, and frankly, I think we'll end up in the same place again anyway. I haven't seen any post out there like this, and I really don't know what I'm looking for, maybe 'persmission' to move on??? Any thoughts out there???

Welcome to MB. It is a great place to be if you need to be here.

Would upi be so kind as to seperate your post into paragraphs? You can even seperate the paragraphs with a space. It will enable some of us to read it much easier.

That will make it easier ofr us to comment.

thanks

Jwoman,
I will comment here. After today I will be off MB for a while to let my FWH get some help without worrying about me lurking. I am telling you this so that if you want to chat more, please pm me or email at [email]cookieeater282@yahoo.com.[/email] I will respond and help from there.

“He cries and beggs and says the right things, then he then is a normal person to be around (not meeting my emotinal needs, or going over the top, just not being so angry and explosive). This usually only last for days or at most ever was a month.”
My FWH was the same man you are describing, almost to a tee. He has always had anger issues, and was always very selfish. I had no self esteem, no purpose, not worthy in my mind due to my abusive childhood.

I have met his needs so much that mine were not met in the least for 17 years. He would argue and would make disrespectful judgments and statements that hurt. Many of them could not be listed here either. But he also did not just say them to me. He was very hard on the kids too. They could not be good enough, he complained about them to them. So I think I can guess how you are feeling right now.

I didn’t know things could be better in life. I just figured that life from when I was a child was just continuing as an adult. He would take and take, and I would give and give. I enabled him to do this and for that I blame myself too.
Now my H had an A. He is a FWH now and posting here just recently. He has many times done exactly as you H does. He promises to change, and does for about a month if that. Then goes right back to the same person he has always been. That slowly deteriorates all trust and love you have.
This is hard to understand and take in for you but I will tell you what many wonderful people here have told me. It took me 9 months to get it.

YOU CANNOT CHANGE HIM
HE HAS TO MAKE THE CHOICE TO CHANGE FOREVER
YOU ONLY CAN CONTROL YOUR CHANGES

Hearing and understanding that are 2 different things. I was reading it here and thinking that I got it. Well I didn’t truly until recently. I cannot change him. I cannot make him do anything. I can however change who I am, and not accept and not give in to his behaviors.

Even with the A, and my reactions after. He was still very selfish. He would cry, I would comfort him, he felt better, and I did not. He never asked if I was ok. He was better, his needs were filled, and mine kept getting emptier and emptier. To the point that I no longer love my FWH. I let it get too empty. I did that to myself. He did not do that. I let him have that power.

Add some light here for you. My FWH has improved. He is better with the kids on most occasions, we do not fight at all in front of them. He does not LB or DJ me in front of them or even rarely ever at all lately. Will he revert back to his former self? I do not know. But I do know, I have done all I know how, I have changed and I am a better person. He is here and attempting to make the changes he needs to do in order to be a better person. I hope in time that the changes he makes will stay forever and that I will fall back into love with him.

You continue to make your changes. Become a better person. You owe that to your kids and yourself. Please do not allow him to degrade you in front of the kids. Just don’t let him. They see these things and later in life may think that is ok for them or other to do that. Let him know that it is not acceptable.

So like I said earlier, I am backing away from MB for a while, to let him do what he needs to do. I cannot help him be who or what he wants to be. I can support him and guide him, but I cannot make him changes There is no guarantee that if and when he does, we will be compatible. I know this and for the first time in my life, I am not only OK with this, I get it. I am a whole person that needs love and deserves to be happy. So do you.


You have a choice to change yourself. You have a choice of whether to try to let him in and meet your needs. You can guide him and support him. But regardless, he has a choice to ignore you. Buy the books by the Harleys. Read them. Even though I did not see anything about an affair in your post, you can still do a plan A, IMHO. Don’t give up yet. Put your best foot forward and continue to work on you. Also read up on Narcissistic Personality Disorder. You may find out that your H fits a lot of the profile, as my FWH did.

Yes. About two years ago, after research, I discovered he fell into the narcissistic personality area. But ME knowing that doesn't really do US much good.

I did not have an abusive childhood, I really think I just fell into this situation because I am a pleaser and a giver, and that's what kept feeding the relationship. No I have not cheated, though I fear I could if the situation presented iteself because I'm so lonely and emotionally malnourished.

I agree he needs to change, and I feel like I can not be around him any more until he does. It's really taken a toll on me. I need to separate from him, but he won't do that, so it only seems to leave me with divorce. Both of our parents are still together and divorce just seems ssoooo extreme and I don't want to put my kids through that, but I know the fighting they experience is worse for them. I just can't seem to make the move. It's probably the pleaser/giver part that is holding me back????

Can you make it financially on your own?

Actually, I am a stay at home mom right now, but I have a college degree in a well paying field. I recently told my husband I was going to start networking and trying to get a job again since money is tight. I had originally wanted to stay at home until my youngest was in Kindergarten or 1st (1 or 2 more school yrs), but I know I can't stay in this current situation that long or they'll end up putting me in a straight jacket!

I've been planning and pondering divorce for 3+ years and I pretty much have everything figured out financially (I am a big time over thinker/planner). I am starting to put the pieces of my plan into order, although I don't want to. I am not telling him because he will make things even more miserable for me. It's really stressing me out!

I've always wished he could just see the light and we could move forward, so everytime he tries, I jump at the opportunity. But as I mentioned, it's always short lived. I just don't know how may tries I need to give him. Last time he tried, I didn't even care because I knew the "other guy" was going to come back. I think that is when I pretty much made up my mind that it wasn't going to work between us. I wasn't receptive to his efforts and of course, the "other guy" is back.

I am now convinced that Plan A isn't ever going to work, but he won't try Plan B. I know he doesn't want a divorce and thinks he loves me, but frankly he isn't trying very hard. He probably doesn't take me serious anymore since I keep giving him more chances. Do you think I should just divorce? I've thought that when he gets served with papers he might actually try Plan B. Any more thoughts out there for me?

I would get a job. You will need to do that anyway if you divorce. I'm thinking maybe a separation would get him to take your requests seriously.

You might also investigate reading about boundaries. It is very possible to protect yourself and your children by putting up some boundaries, and still live with him.

Wow does this sound familiar!! I had the same marriage except it was my wife that was always angry with me. She would yell and screem at me and I would take it. She was the taker and I was the giver.

I would applogize and beg her to stay with me. How said is that when I look back at it. She treated me like just one wrong word from me and she was out of here.

One day I woke up because I felt like I did when I was a little kid. The same hopeless feelings that no matter what I did it would not matter.

It was my fault though too. I trained her to be like this. The worse she treated me the more I begged and pleaded with her to stay with me and forgive me. She would not go to MC and then she started even treating me worse.

I like you decided I had enough. Well I found out she was having an affair and I busted her good on it and I did file for divorce.

As a man I could forgive an EA or her anger very easy but I could not forgive a PA. She knew I could not forgive that but she went and did it anyway. I think she assumed that no matter what I would put up with it, she was wrong on that.

I did go to some counseling with her to find out why she did what she did. Our divorce should be final in 2 months. She begs for another chance but I can't do it. The MC is very good and I at least got good insight on our marriage but it was too hard for me to continue when you are treated so poorly for years.

Actions speak louder than words. Don't believe him with his words but look at his actions. I know at some point it is hard to even want to try. Best of luck to you

Has anyone out there ever gotten 'through' to a verbal abuser or a narcassist personality type? How?

Has anyone felt they didn't care or want a relationship anymore with a spouse and still had things turn around?