I hope you didn't leave the forum all together. Please post on this thread. Give us a little more information, too.

How long have you been married?

Do you have kids? If so, how old are they?

Has your husband ever been involved in an affair?

Was this the first time you had ever asked him not to have lunch with a female friend?

There is a feature on the forum where you can ignore a user. Please use that and ignore the poster from your other thread.

If you felt something was wrong and asked him to stop and he did not, that is really a red flag. There are some very wise folks on here who can and will assist you.

Maybe the posters on your other thread who were trying to assit you would be so kind as to re-post the information to this thread.



Blessings

Dear Moveforward

Thanks for your response. I am hesitant to do this but will give the whole background so that you can see the situation. (having read to the end, it is somewhat long and a little convoluted so sorry about that) I must also apologise for not telling the whole story to begin with as it would have given a clearer picture but I was trying to keep it simple.

H and I will be having our 34th wedding anniversary next month. We have three adult children who are all great kids, starting to make their own way in the world.

I have known my H since I was about 17 and have never had reason to doubt him in any way.

About six years ago he started a new job and met the OW. At the beginning they were good friends, but I had not met her and was soon heartily sick of hearing that 'X said this' or 'X said that'. Anyway after about 12 months I met her when she and her husband and son were moving to another town and their work team had a send off function for them. At that function some of the female team members (they can be so helpful can't they?) said that the earrings which the team had given X as a present would look just lovely in the jewelery box which my H had given her. I was somewhat taken aback to say the least because I was unaware that he had given her anything. When I asked him what was going on he said that it was unlikely that he would ever see her again and that it was by way of a parting gift.

We left it at that.

Several months later H went to the town where X and her family had moved for work purposes. I rang him one morning and a female answered his mobile phone. She said that my H was in the shower and when I asked who I was talking to she said in surprised tones 'X'. So much for not seeing her again. Obviously contact had been maintained and he had made arrangements to stay with her and her family. On his return he said that there was nothing sinister and that he was sure that he had told me where he was staying. A major row ensued and he told me that, amongst other things, I was the most selfish person he had ever met.

I thought that this was the end of it, however she moved back to our town with her family. As soon as I knew that this was happening I asked my H to please be very careful about how he handled the friendship because I thought that it had the capacity to hurt us.

It was sometime after this when the two families were at our house having a BBQ that a weird conversation took place over food dislikes. H tried to steer the conversation away but X said 'of course you know I don't like that food (whatever it was) we have lunch together every day.' That was when I asked him not to have lunch with her the first time.

Because I thought that he understood my concern I made the effort to spend time occasionally with the other couple. They are dealing with some major issues in their lives which are related to OW husband's work. Things were going along very well for us - our kids had left home but were still close by, our respective jobs were going well, we were enjoying each other's company and life was good. However last August when X was at our house with her husband I watched the biplay and conversation between her and my H and all of a sudden it hit me that nothing had changed and that they were still having lunch.

A lot of conversation - some of it very angry - has occurred since then. A lot of very hurtful things have been said. I have tried to keep to the issue that is of concern but H has not always done that and has reminded me of every thing that I have done over the past 30 years.

At one stage he said that the friendship was so important to him that he would leave the marriage for it. That scared the heck out of me.

We are working through His Needs Her Needs and that has been illuminating. I have established some things about H that I never knew such as his need for affection, and confirmed others such as his lack of need for conversation and that spending recreational time together is not on his list.

We are at a stalemate at present. I am just tired of it all. I have suggested that we put aside our problems at the moment and just try to enjoy the simple things that we used to enjoy doing together - dining out, going to movies, watching sport on TV. Whatever it takes to draw back together again. I appreciate that the problem must be addressed but right now I don't think that anything would be achieved.

The lunches continue.

My husband could probably be described as 'the man least likely'. He is a kind, caring person who always looks out for others and I guess that this is one of the reasons why I find it so difficult to understand where he is coming from with this relationship and some of the things that he has said and done lately.

Any advice which fits within the MB principles and which could be of assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Georgina

Geogina,

Glad to see u posting on a new thread with a more complete recap. Much easier to work with. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

1st, I'd like to thank movingforward for setting up a separate thread. I was thinking of doing similar. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Ok now, here's my 1 suggestion:

1. Call Steve H @ MB for phone counseling ASAP. Start with you and then work with Steve to find out WHEN to bring your H in.

2. Secure your finances. Don't be surprised if the OW has been grooming your H for something big. Women tend t/b the worst because they often plan the A. Men who follow such women are just plain stupid (in this particular area).

3. Have a talk with your children and create your support group.

4. Expose to OW's H. Expect your WS to tell you that her H is being abusive or some lie. Most WS and OP will paint their spouses bad so the A has some justification.

5. My former recommendation to expose to the boss that one of their employees and c/b more are creating a bad name for the company by their A. Let him know that many are wondering if:
a. the company codones A?
b. management encourages sleeping to the top?
c. management allows their EEs to steal from the company
and have an A.

How is this stealing? The time and $$ lost during working hours due to the A is often more than most realize.

Just plant these thoughts in his mind....better yet, send the letter to HR.

Read Love must be tough by Dr James Dobson. You are dealing with a LTA (long term affair). This one will NOT die easily. It has become too comfortable for them. The OW is confident of her position. It has taken root and you have to exterminate her hold on your H. You will find the tools to use but remember it is your H who must come back, not the WS.

It seems you have a passive agressive H and conflict avoider? Hm.... it adds it's own twist but we can help.

take care,
L.

Wow Georgina. I suggest trying to get him to read "Surviving an Affair" which also deals with emotional affairs which his seems to be. "Not Just Friends" would also be recommended reading as it deals very specifically with workplace infidelity.

God Bless. Be assured this is an affair and there is a way through for you.

Dear Georgina,

I’m glad you’ve decided to stay on these forums and seek advice, help and input from members who will assist you with MB advice. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> The extra information and background you’ve provided indeed gave valuable insight and a much clearer picture on your story. The details you’ve provided will also help posters to give better input and advice on your specific sitch. Please continue to post here and ignore posts which give advice against the MB principles.

Georgina, unfortunately I have to tell you that this post of yours has further confirmed my suspicion that your H is already emotionally attached and addicted to this OW and involved in an A with her… And I’m so sorry you find yourself in this very sad situation… <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

The following in your post stands out to me and concerns me greatly:

[color:"red"] ”At one stage he said that the friendship was so important to him that he would leave the marriage for it.”[/color]

The above is a clear indication of how serious their involvement already is and
how much of a threat this "friendship" is to you and your M.

Even if your H has not yet physically acted on his attachment to OW, the inappropriate feelings he has developed for her is a very real danger to the M. Such close involvement with members of the opposite sex leads to emotional and mental betrayal such as fantasies, dwelling thoughts on the OP, secrecy etc. The damage and hurt caused to a BS because of such an emotional attachment can be just as (or even more) hurtful as a PA. And what makes it worse is that the participants in the EA are often in denial and think there is nothing wrong with the “friendship” as long as there is no physical involvement…

Georgina, as I’ve said on the other thread, even the most trustworthy, sincere, conservative, moral, good-intentioned spouse on this earth can become emotionally attached and/or developed inappropriate feelings for a friend of the opposite sex if too much time is spending alone in the company of such a friend. And this is what happened to your H. He is already attached and addicted to OW and that’s why he acting likes this. Your H is in a FOG, denial and tries to rationalize his behavior (“friendship”) with this woman. Even the “least likely” people start acting & behaving very out of character as soon as they get themselves caught up in a situation where they become attached and “addicted” to an OP.

I think you must do the following:

1. Start doing plan A – make sure you meet your H’s most important EN’s.
2. Keep communicating your feelings and let your H know how his “friendship” with OW is affecting you and the M. Let him know that his level of involvement with OW is unacceptable to you.
3. Keep investigating and try to find more information. As suggested on the other thread, get his cell phone records, check his e-mails (by installing computer software) etc. "Hard core" evidence will come in handy as soon as you start exposing the A. Exposure will help bring the A to an end.
4. On this stage it won’t help to try and “educate” your H on EA’s and inappropriate friendships between opposite sex , but what you can do is get hold of the book “NOT Just Friends” by Shirley Glass and let it lie around in the house for your H to see; read it in front of your H etc.

Hope this helps a bit,
Suzet

Dear Georgina
I am so glad you posted. You are getting some good adivce from the pros above. I am running late for work, but Ijust wanted to see if you had checked in. I'll be praying for you today as I work. I sort of have mindless job at times so I fill that time by praying for my friends on here.

Blessigns to you.

Dear Georgina, something else - please take a look at this thread:

15 Steps Of Unfaithfulness

The above thread is very good and describe how A’s which originally start off as friendships, usually grow and slowly escalates until the participants cross boundaries into EA and then PA. This thread provides good insight into this process and shows where things will eventually lead to if such “friendships” (like your H's "frienship" with OW) is allowed to develop further and spin further out of control.

bump

double bump

Georgina, are you still around?

Don't stop posting - we are concerend about you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

What a great day Valentines Day turned out to be - not!

H regards it a gross over-commercialisation and despite many conversations over the years will not understand that doing something - anything - to mark the day would get him thousands of points in the Love Bank.

We have both done the EN Q'airre and established that we both have high needs for affection but despite a long conversation about how that affection is given, H does not give it in the way I need it.

Ah well.

Georgina

To those who have offered advice - thanks.

In response to comments from Orchid and Suzet, thanks for advising that I speak with Steve but I live on the wrong side of the world to make that phone call.

In relation to exposing to OWH. I feel that this is not an option for me. I know this man reasonably well and his health condition would not allow me to have that discussion. This is not an excuse - although I would find exposure extremely difficult - as I know that his health issues are part of the reason the OW leans so heavily on my H. I accept however that this is no excuse for H's behaviour.

Like others whose thread I have read, I have tended to blow up and become emotional when talking about our issues. I regret this as I know that it is counter-productive and H usually stays cool calm and collected and I end up feeling like the looney when I know that it is ok to expect the things I do.

There is no way that I could check H emails as he never uses the computer at home. Says that he has enough of them at work so that is not a path which will provide any information.

Can someone please tell me what bump and double bump mean? I see it in several threads including this one.

Georgina.

Just a way of bringing your thread to the top again - otherwise it gets buried under pages & pages of posts and you may not see it.

Regarding Exposure - your must understant that for your marriage to have a chance, you have to kill the affair. The most effective tool of ending the affair is exposure and the place to start that is with OP's spouse. They then become your ally in ending the affair.

OP's spouse also has a right to know what their spouse is up to. There's all sorts of isues including STD's. If someone knew your husband was having an affair, would you want them to tell you?

I am very confused.

Today I had the opportunity to be in the city (where H works) so took the opportunity to ask him to have lunch with me. He immediately said yes and we made arrangements. We had a great time. Sea views, great food, very relaxed atmosphere.

However this is where I am confused. When I thought about it I realised that any time that I am available he always says ok to lunch. If he is so attached to OW that he 'would leave the marriage before giving up the friendship' why is he so keen to lunch on the occasions that I am available?

Help please.

Georgina

Georgina,
I am just throwing my 2cents in here <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. I am not an old timer, even though my reged date would suggest that....I found this place when I was "happily married" ~I was actually totally oblivious to my M falling apart ~ and I have taken advantage of the help here only seriously once my H left, so take my advice with a grain of salt <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

I can see where you are coming from. I have recently learned that there are a lot of girls that H has kept in contact with. He kept it all secret. He told one of them "my wife would be jellous if she knew you or any other girl is writing to me" (his exact words). I did not know till recently. Was I a jellous lunatic <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />? You bet I was NOT! (he was just upset that I was a little suprised to find out that his ex was at my wedding <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> ~ I found out 6 months later).....Anyway, so H has all these girls, innocent friendships...possibly...but why keep it secret <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />???

My H's reasons were (and I speculate here based on all sorts of conversations) that he should not have to give up his privacy. I don't need to know it all. I don't need to know where he is going, who he is hanging out with, when he will get home (you get the picture <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />). Very dangerous thinking <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> ~ as I see now! Yes, I was fulish enough to listen to his concerns about "privacy" and "freedom" and tried to leave him alone.

FACT: you got to protect your marriage, secrets eat a way at it. You know the saying, "what I don't know, don't hurt me", in a marriage that is so dead wrong! In a marriage, "what I don't know, is bound to hurt me and my M".....secrets don't keep a marriage strong.

Your H needs to see this. Until he does, you don't feel save in the M, and the marriage is in danger! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

He really may not realize how dangerous that relationship is. Even if his intentions today are "frienship only", all it takes is you loosing your job (an example), trouble with the kids, you two not agreeing on whether to buy that plazma TV, basically some "shock" to the system, and he can get closer to her and into an EA in no time. He needs to recognize that. He doesn't see how dangerous it is. His statement that he would give up the marriage before the friend speaks volumes! It is a statement that shows that he does not get what marriage means! That he has agreed to cherrish you not this friend! That you come above all others (and that does not mean "other women in a sexual sense", but above ALL others, all this friends! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />).

I'll stop. This just got too long....

Take care.....I hope he sees the light....so many don't till it is too late.

Daisy

bump

Dear Georgina, in this case, consider writing a letter to you H in stead and express all your feelings in there. Please try and get hold of the book: “Men are from Mars and Women Are From Venus” by John Gray, PHD and read the chapter on the writing of a Love Letter (one of the last chapters in the book). There is EXCELLENT guidelines & practical advice to follow and to help you express all your feelings of anger, hurt, pain and love to your H (in the right order) and help bringing those emotions to the surface using “I messages” etc. In this way (a letter) you will be able to confront your H about his involvement with OW and let him understand exactly how this is affecting you without any LB’ers.

Well I did it. I wrote H a carefully worded letter telling him that I was writing from a position of love and caring for both of us and our relationship. But I was very clear that I cannot accept his relationship with OW and that I am very hurt that he has ignored my feelings and continues to do so.

I told him that I still love him and want to move forward and that for now I will leave it alone but will never accept his friendship with OW.

He has read the letter tonight but made no comment so far. He has tucked it into the His Needs Her Needs book so that at least is a positive start.

Georgina.

I feel somewhat hesitant about posting some of my concerns here as most posters seem to have problems much greater than mine, but here goes anyway.

My H still believes that he is doing nothing wrong in his ‘friendship’ with OW and will not discuss the situation. I have given him some printouts from the website about sharing diaries and activities for the coming week with a view to being totally transparent about our individual activities and he has not wanted to follow up on this. Three weeks ago he gave me, (in his words), and ‘undertaking’ that he would read the remainder of His Needs Her Needs but to date has only read one more chapter.

There was only a very brief mention of the letter that I wrote to him as per my previous post and it consisted of telling me that I seem to think that he spends more time with OW then he actually does. The story now is that he has only seen her once in the past fortnight. Previous to this H has told me that he sees her twice week, on other occasions he has told me that it is three or four times a week - the story keeps changing.

None of this sounds to me like a person who places high value on getting our marriage back on track, however he is falling over himself doing other things for me. Getting a cup of tea, assisting in any way that he can, being courteous and considerate (this in the past was part of his normal nature). But the way I see it right now is that he is simply attempting to keep me dumb and happy.

Am I being way too cynical?

Georgina

^^^Bump^^^

Georgina, no, I don't think you are too cynical. In fact I think you have much reason to feel very concerned and unhappy about your H's behavior. He have his cake and eat it too. His behavior is very typical of a WS in a fog who justify and rationlize his behavior.

I hope others will post soon with help and advice for your specific situation and how to proceed from here.

Take care,
Suzet