Thanks Melody

I have thought a lot about my statement of choosing to just live with the situation and have decided that as a first choice this is not for me. This morning I told H that if I am to work with him on bringing this marriage to what it was, and what is could be, then the OW has to go. She is leaving town today for a couple of weeks so I have no idea when I will get an answer. Maybe her absence will help to clear things up a little for him. One way or another I have decided I want an answer. If he decides to keep her around then I need to decide if I can live with that or I want something more from my life. I am anxious now that I have done it and have no idea what tonight will be like. H is not an angry man but if he has a lot on his mind things could be rather strained.

I have exposed with my OD. I spoke with her at length some months ago and she has been very supportive of me in all the small ways that daughters can be, as well as the large. She had a conversation with her Dad and put it in the context of what if it was my partner and I? He kept saying that this would be quite different and her response to him kept being 'How?'. He did not come up with an answer. He is aware that I speak with her regularly and knows that she is fully aware of what is occurring. My H thinks the world of OD. She is a fabulous young woman who has had more than her share of troubles - the death of her son at birth being just one - and she and her Dad are very close. OD in turn speaks with her brother. I have not spoken directly to him about our situation.

I have not been able to find any of the books mentioned above as yet but will continue trying to do so through my bookshop - may have to order in. However I did find today a book written by a man about relationships and it focuses in particular on helping men to understand women. It is written in a light tone, easily readable and is 'friendly'. I will think about giving it to H if he seems receptive. I read parts of it and liked what it was saying so we will see what happens with it. It talks about boundaries, values etc.

Thanks all

Georgina

Georgina,

I just wanted to say that you may be able to find HNHN in a christian bookstore. I did...and it was 5$.....No other used bookstore had it....

Sorry you have to be here....take care of yourself....

Daisy

Hi Georgina - you can get them all online from www.amazon.com

Folks

Thanks for all the advice. It does keep one's spirits up knowing that there is a support group out there doesn't it?

I have given H the book that I purchased today and he seemed most receptive. We briefly discussed what I have read in it so far and he seems keen to read on.

Who knows?

We are having a fine Friday evening - preparing dinner together and having a quiet Friday night drink. Just the normal stuff that normal families do. How nice it feels. Maybe there is hope?

Georgina

Georgina, before you decide to split up, I think there are several things you can do. However, the things I tell you are not going to make much sense unless you are familiar with the MB program and the dynamics of an affair, via Surviving an Affair by Willard Harley. His Needs, Her Needs does have information about affairs, so that would be a good start.

But basically, an affair is an addiction. It usually serves to fill some gap that the WS is not getting met at home. [sometimes not] But the OW meets some important top need of his. Often with men it is ADMIRATION. I would ask your H if he would take the emotional needs questionaire from this forum so you can find out for sure.

That will help train you in meeting whatever need she is meeting so he can turn to you instead of her.

That is the first part of Plan A. The second is to actively work to ruin this affair. It has been going on for a long time and is not likely to stop until you do something dramatic that creates conflict in the affair.

The way to do this is via exposure. Exposure is ruinous to affairs because affairs thrive on secrecy. Affairees are wrapped in a cocoon of a fantasy that is ruined when they are forced to see how sleazy they look through the eyes of others. It hastens the death of the affair by creating great conflict. Good exposure targets are spouses, parents, children, employers, pastors, etc. I think the best way to do it is in one fell swoop so the affairees will feel the maximum impact.

And have you considered joining them at lunch every day? Since they are just "friends" there is no reason you can't ALL be "friends," right?

Georgina, check out this link that Suzet [hat tip to Suzet] posted on another thread. This might be helpful to show to your H: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post2868483

Very good suggestion… Georgina, your H’s reaction on this will be a very good indicator whether he and the OW are really "just friends"… <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

awesome! I love the suggestion Melodylane made for you to join them at lunch.

Georgina, one part of plan A you have wrong is the NC part. Go read the thread Ark just started. Basically plan A is you being the lighthouse that attracts your spouse back to the M. You work to fill the emotional needs the OW is meeting. You make any changes in you that need changing and basically you expect C to continue as you make your home the more attractive place for the WS. You also ready yourself for plan B during plan A. Have you read up on the basic concepts?

Melody

You are quite right I think. There must be some reason why H wants to keep up this affair. We have already done the En q/airre and admiration was not one on his list, however, that does not mean that there are not others that I am missing. Will review the responses and start again.

I think that I have exposed as far as I can. Everyone at their work place already seems to know. As I said in previous threads someone even asked if they were an item. At that stage H told me he does not care what other people think and I think he still believes that.

It isn't possible for me to meet them at lunch time as my work place is about 20 minutes away, but the strange thing is that any time that I have been available and asked H to have lunch with me, he immediately says yes and we enjoy lunch.

As far as us all being friends, this might have been possible once. We occasionaly did things as a couples. They came to our house and us to theirs. I did this because I believed that H has understood what I was asking of him in giving up the one-on-one time so I thought that I could reciprocate. Then I found out that he had been telling lies and he was still seeing her without me being there. It all went down hill from there.

Georgina

Georgina, when I say "expose" I don't mean people seeing them walk out the door to lunch. I mean sending a letter to Human Resources and their bosses and telling them this is an AFFAIR. I mean calling up his parents, your children, the OW's H, etc. and telling them this is an affair and asking them for help in breaking it up.

If anyone at work knows, they only know what they have been told by your H and the OW, which isn't the correct story.

Could you not make arrangements to meet your H for lunch every day at a location in between? I don't really think you should be friends with her, but I think it would be good to use that as an excuse to intrude on their lunches every day.

What does the OWH say about all this?

Georgina,
I would not dismiss admiration that quickly. I have been doing a lot of reading here and it does seem admiration is something that man want. The thing is that he may not consider it "admiration" what he wants or he may think admiration is too strong, or he may feel not be compeletely honest that he does want admiration.

I mean he could be thinking "I don't need admiration. What I need is her letting me know that she does think I did great standing up for to my boss....etc...."

I tell you, my H would argue that admiration was not his top need, but the fact is that he did want to be "admired" for things...he would just not use that word!

Best to you...
Daisy

Daisy is right, I would take a second and third look at that one. She is filling some need.

Melody and Daisy

Continued thanks. Lots of things to think about.

Georgina

Daisy

I have followed the link and read the article on "plan a tips and musings...get grounded here". I now understand a lot more about Plan A and will find it easier to implement now that I have that understanding.

So far we are having a lovely weekend. Lots of domestic stuff like gardening which we both enjoy. H has just commented on what a great day it has been so far. I enjoy knowing that.

Georgina

Georgina, here is a pretty good point by point synopsis of Plan A, because it really is TWO PARTS:

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A by Pepperband

The carrot of Plan A


Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



The stick of Plan A


Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not appologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.

I need to vent!!! Sorry to do this here but I guess that it beats kicking the cat.

I have doing my best Plan A. Lots of discussion has occurred lately but it seems to me that all discussion points back to me being the problem and that H is doing absolutely nothing wrong.

I think that I said earlier in this thread that H said that I have a domineering personality and that this extends across my relationships with my children (all adults now). The latest is that I am confronting in my discussions with our kids and that because of this they cannot be honest with me. Strange. I thought that I had a pretty good r/ship with my kids although I have my ups and downs with them just like every other Mum.

H then told me that I am just like my eldest sister (now deceased) and my father (also deceased). Now these are two people who are not at the top of my people to be admired list and I was pretty hurt by the statement and told him so. He did not retract it though.

The real problem seems to be, according to H, that I am depressed and could probably benefit from some form of medication. I have taken these things before as he already knows and could not function properly even at the fairly low dose the the doc put me onto and he is suggesting that I go there again! He just will not accept that I have a problem dealing with his choices and that I have a right to my feelings. All will be well if I just get over this depression and change my behaviour with both him and the kids, and and and and - there won't be anything left of me shortly.

I have recently been moved within my organisation and despite telling H that I am having difficulty coping he has never asked me how the job is going or if he can do anything to help. When I asked him about this he told me that he does not know how to deal with it. No-one is asking him to deal with it, or fix it. It is my problem and I am trying to work through it, but some support would be nice.

I am doing a Plan A to my best ability but am having difficulty keeping my spirits up and also doing the no LB thing with all this going on.

OK. I have vented now and feel a little bit better. Onwards and upwards I guess.

Georgina

Had a brief discussion with H this afternoon and told him that while I remain very hurt about the things that he has told me I am - domineering personality etc - I refuse to continue to be affected by the things that he says as I am over it.

I intend to continue living my life the best way that I can, continuing to be the loving supportive spouse but trying not to make it about me. It is his actions which are under the microscope here, not just the actions of mine which might have lead to his dependance on OW.

He seemed surprised about the things that I repeated to him as having come from him. They were, by the way, in the same conversation as him telling me that he plans to be loving, cherishing and making it clear that I am valued in his life. He also said that it is very difficult for him to tell me these things without it being very hurtful to me. Strange how we approach issues isn't it? I have tried to keep everything that I have said (and have mostly succeeded) to discussion about the behaviour with his OW/Friend but he seems to have to resort to bringing up every thing that I have done over the past 30 years or so.

As I said in my last post, onwards and upwards.

A Much More Cheerful Georgina.

Georgina, the above is a red flag and not good. It seems every time you try to address your H’s behavior with the OW and express your dissatisfaction and unhappiness about it, he counteracts by changing the subject and try to put the blame on you. By using this avoidance, self-defending and manipulation technique, he is trying to get you to “shut up” about his behavior and “friendship” with the OW so that he can continue with his behavior and don’t have to take responsibility and face consequences. Also, by blaming you and digging up “old cows” of the past, he is trying to justify and rationalize his behavior to himself.

I also suspect your H has started to rewrite marital history: For the past 30 years prior to his “friendship” with the OW, he has possibly never (or seldom) complained about you or things you have done wrong in the past and now suddenly, most (or everything) you have done over the past 30 years were wrong; he’s finding fault with you; criticizing your personality etc. Am I correct? By painting you in a bad light and make himself (and you) belief that you are a bad spouse and that the M was “unhappy” for most of the 30 years (e.g. rewriting marital history) he is trying to justify and rationalize his involvement with OW. This is a common technique often used by WS’s in the fog and actively involved in A’s.

I just want you to be aware of this so that you can be prepared and stand up against your H's manipulation techniques.

Suzet, I thought from everything that I have read on this site that this was a given with WS behaviour and I expected it to a degree - just not the severity of it.

I don't think that he is literally trying to rewrite marital history. He has previously said that until last August (D/Day) everything was great and we were in the best place. I thought so too until I found out the lie. But I do accept that he does try to turn it around and make it about me which I absolutely will not accept any longer.

I have to carry my responsibility for past actions, however I will never accept this I am the person who he sometimes tries to paint me as. This is the reason why I have told him that I am over it. I think he thought that I was planning to leave when I told him that, but like so many others we have too many years of history to walk away from right now. However, despite the fact that the situation is quite calm and we are planning a family weekend - gardening etc - things cannot continue like this forever.

I am not sure if any forum participants are believers in Psychics. I am and one told me in a reading recently that H was going to walk away from something that he previously thought was important to him in about September when he realised that it was not as important in his life as he thought. My plan is to do such a great Plan A that it is the OW that he will walk away from as he will decide that I am just too damn good to lose!! (I already know that I am.)

Cheerful Georgina

Some time ago we both did the EN q'airre. When we finally got to discuss our responses I was quite surprised to find that H's highest need was for affection. Not that he is not affectionate, but he has never indicated in all of our years together that this was a need of his.

In fact I would have said that this would have been a low level need for him. However I have since asked him to let me know what I can do to meet this need. I have tried not to push it but he has not given me any response.

This is the same for all of our discussions. H says that he will do something such as reading a book or magazine article to help improve things and he never does. I am wondering how committed he is.

OW is out of town at the moment and day to day situation is ok - normal family activities going well. Today I tried to discuss our communication as I feel that what I have to talk about is no longer important to him. I see his eyes glaze over as we are speaking and do something to jolt him back into the conversation. The other day I was speaking with him while we were preparing dinner and no sooner had I finished my sentence then he left the room! No response, just left. I saw quite clearly then that he was either not listening at all, or just not interested.

This is becoming very frustrating. If I can't reach him on any level what do I do to try to work things out?

Georgina