I was wondering if some of the more experienced and or knowledgeable people on this board can give an example of the difference between a boundary (with consequences) and an ultimatum?

For example, if spouse A tells spouse B that they will not accept a certain kind of behavior, and if it continues, they will take action "x". Is that a boundary condition with clearly outlined consequences, or could that be perceived as an ultimatum? I.e., stop doing action "A" or I will take course "B"?

Is simply a matter of phrasing? Any examples that could be used to compare and contrast? Thanks.

boundaries have absolutely no expected action placed on anyone else except the person verbalizing the boundary..

I can not tell you or make you and force you to do a b c...
but I can and will take control of my response....

boundaries dont' even have to be spoken...just acted...

ultimatums usually involve some grandiose verbal declaration...

boundaries don't....have to ...

telling someone you won't accept behavior from them is pointless..we have no control over anyone elses behaviors...

boundaries say..behave as you choose to...
and then I will choose as well.....

boundaries define ones own tolerance, acceptance and places no onus of responsibility on anyone else....

I chooose not to live a b or c
while not telling anyone else how to live...

ARK

Beautifully said, Ark.

Small thread jack.... Ark... Hope you don't mind, I'm going to borrow your little boundary speech and lend it to someone on the Emotional Needs section..... Of course, i'll give you full credit and well said....

Ark - thank you. That pretty much clarifies the differences in my mind. It seems like it's all in how you word it (to one degree or another).

In other words, telling the person they can do as they wish, but (for whatever reason) you will do what you need to do or believe is right. Did I catch the essence?

Ark said it quite well.

For me, it was about realizing what I could not tolerate vs. forcing him to decide (which would have been an ultimatum). I knew that I could no longer take the pain and had to remove myself from the situation. I could not be hurt anymore...that was my boundary.

BB,

you said
I think you sort of have it but not quite.

Examples: "Dear I do NOT like you swearing at me and yelling at me. Please stop." Boundary. Action: If she starts to do either you simply get up and leave. IF she tries to follow move to a room or someplace where she cannot follow you. You don't have to threaten, you just need to state the boundary clearly and cease to tolerate the behavior.

Example: "Dear, I don't want you charging you dinners to the ****card, please stop." Boundary Action: Cancel the card, lower the spending limit on it, take the card back IF she violates this boundary. If it is in both of your names change it to her's or yours depending on who really needs it.

Boundary (plan A moving to plan b) "Dear I want to remain married to you, your affair is just killing me. Therefore, I am leaving and will not have contact with you until OM is out of the picture." Boundary and action via a plan b letter.

Are you getting a sense of this. YOu state what you boundary is, but really there is 'if you don't, I'll do...." It is not cause and effect. It is cause and then you act further to protect the boundary. No whatif's, no I told you's, just a simple statement of boundaries. No threats.

Hope this helps.

God Bless,

JL

PS: Even if you are in plan A, and setting your boundaries correctly, that does not mean they won't like them. But, it is not a threat. It is cool, simple, easily communicated, and protected.

brokenbird

Boundaries are a special form of ultimatum - instead of being ultimatum directed at someone else, they're ultimatums directed at you.

The problem with issuing ultimatums about what you will and will not accept is that it generally doesn't offer any kind of idea about what happens if the behavior happens or continues. What does it really mean to 'not accept' something? Does it mean that you won't believe it? You'll ignore it? Throw yourself to the ground and have a tantrum? Retreat to your room and cry for a week or two? Divorce immediately with no further discussion? If what it really means when you say "I won't accept <whatever." is "I'm going to get mad.", then it's just clearer to say "I'm going to get mad."

The other issue that comes up a lot is consequences. Consequences are nothing more than natural fall out for decisions. If you decide to go to college, apply yourself, and earn a degree - then, as a consequence, you have more employment opportunities than those without a degree.

Consequences that arise from boundaries are very different than punishment behaviors.

Here's a snippet from a previous post that I wrote to another poster about boundaries:


Generally, healthy boundaries are a series of rules that you preferably decide about in advance (in a moment of calm, not in the middle of an emotional crisis) about how you intend to govern your own behavior It might mean that you will not continue to remain married to someone who isn't willing to have a marriage of only two people. It might mean that you will remove yourself from any type of physical or verbal abuse. It might be about what you're willing to do - maybe you're willing to check cell phone records and email account if you suspect infidelity but you draw the line at engaging in physical or verbal abuse yourself. It might be that you hang up the phone at the first sign of abusive language.

In any case, the boundary and the consequences serve to protect you and/or govern your behavior so that you act in a way that is consistent with your beliefs (rather than getting tempted into doing things you regret out of anger or strong emotion). The boundary and consequences MIGHT make things uncomfortable for a spouse or make him/her angry but they aren't used to punish or manipulate behavior.

I hope this helps,

Mys

P.S. er... yeah, what ark said (much more succintly)

Post deleted by Cherished

OK...Here is one to ponder.

Me - If you go to visit OM in California, you have made your choice. (this means the D continues)

WW - I understand complettely.

This is an ultimatum which I believe she took rather well.

Great thread and great definitions, people!

One thing that confuses people when they enforce a boundary is that the boundee often complains that the enforcement is manipulative and coercive.

As in "You're forcing me to give up OP!", or "If you sleep on the couch when I come home drunk, that's just a way of manipulating me into not drinking!"

Most of us get anxious and self-doubting when this is said.

An enforced boundary makes the other feel uncomfortable, and most of us have a strong drive to resolve that discomfort by complying with the request. That's why the boundee feels coerced.

This is the thing to remember - if what you're doing is simply removing yourself from something that harms you - it's a boundary. If what you're doing is to punish the other - it's not a boundary.

Sleeping on the couch is a boundary. Plan B is a boundary. Pouring beer on your H's clothes while he sleeps is not a boundary.

TA

Sleeping on the couch is a boundary. Plan B is a boundary. Pouring beer on your H's clothes while he sleeps is not a boundary.

and it's a terrible terrible waste of beer... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

TA

Mys, JL, TA...

Ark is clear and concise. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I am THICK. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

It's all good stuff... keep it coming. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

(Hi bird)

--SC