Liz - I won't say that you went to Plan B too soon. Please remind me - have all the legal steps been taken for separation?

In that he wasn't a daily occurence, Plan B wasn't immediately needed to get him outta your face. He was doing that on his own. In other words, you had the opposite sitch of many who need to implement Plan B for their isolation.

Before sending the letter, please evaluate the alternative of staying in Plan A and trying to lure him out of his cave. Things seemed to be getting no worse and he was being a typical cake eater. Maybe you got impatient?

Otherwise, follow your gut and send the letter. My only comment to the letter is that's there's no direction to him on how to communicate with you through either an intermediary or in writing, etc.

WAT

No legal separation signed, but I am off all of his accounts. We had verbally agreed to split bills in half, but I am going to stop paying the ones in his name. He is really against the legal separation (makes it too real) or getting a lawyer because he is so broke, so he can either take on a larger share of the bills since I am stuck with all of the house expenses or he can get a lawyer. Legally and financially, I am in a better situation. The house is mine. The lawyer says that with or without the actual separation, my position is pretty much the same.

I know I got impatient and I know I reacted. My gut says to go to plan B anyway. WH is always one to go with the flow - very passive at times (passive aggressive at others). I think that without plan B, he could stay in his holding pattern forever. He is a mess, his apartment is a mess (saw it for the 1st time yesterday - it's a dump) yet he seems content to hole up there and wait for any crumbs OW is willing to throw at him.

I, on the other hand need to step away from this. His A has been ongoing for 9 months. The fact that they no longer work together seems to make the sneaking around to see each other even more thrilling. I am the only one pulling him out of his cave, but by the same token, I think he crawls out long enough to have me meet his EN's which allows him another trip back into the cave.

He knows what he has at home. I just can't be part-time anymore or part of a threesome. That part of Dobson's book really spoke to me.

Go for it, Liz.

You sound lucid and rational.

He, on the other hand, is drifting. His reality is what he says it is. Self delusion.

WAT

Thanks WAT. Lucid, rational and heartbroken. Your comment about WH drifting made me think of something that I hadn't in a while.

WH was engaged 4 times before I met him.
#1 - high school sweetheart. She cheated on him and married OM. They are still married and have 2 children, but he runs around.
#2 - rocky relationship. His family didn't like her or the way she treated him. Break-up was mutual. She is now serving time for 2 separate instances of embezzlement.
#3 - daughter of his older brother's SO. She was very abusive and they broke up several times during the course of their 3 year relationship.
#4 - she was married (unhappily of course) at the time that they got together. Her H moved out and my WH moved in. 3 years later she had an A with another married man and they are now married.

See a pattern? I guess I was blind. I thought we both had been through a lot of rough relationships and we always said how lucky we were to have found each other. All of his other relationships lasted 3 years max. Ours has been 8 years. Marriage was really important to him - I thought long and hard before I said yes. I really believed that we had a good thing.

The scariest part about Plan B is that I don't think it will alter the course of events. If and when he gets tired of waiting for OW, he will probably just move on to someone else. I don't see him fighting this battle with me. Like everything else he has ever done, it will be easier for him to just bury his feelings and drift along. That is what makes me the saddest of all.

WH seems to drift through his life. I have never known him to stand up and fight for anything. He is one of those people that "things" just happen to - that was his excuse for the A.

Hmmmmmmm, well I'm only an armchair shrink, but his history dots could probably be connected together as well as connected to some root cause personality defining events.

Plan B means you are going to detach and let him drift. In the meantime you continue to grow and learn, OK?

WAT

Yeah, that's the stuff we started to uncover in counseling. Deep hurts with his father and then step-father. He is now doing the same things that they did - cheating and walking out on his family. Oh, well.

On to detachment - that's a tough one for me lately. I feel like I'm drifting.

Thanks for being there WAT.

Played pool last night - still subbing for my SIL. Saw a man there that WH and I played pool with a couple of years back. He and his wife have also been to a couple of our annual summer parties. Haven't seen him in quite a while, so as we were talking, I told him how WH and I were living apart and about his A. All of a sudden I noticed that his sweatshirt had the company logo of the place where OWH works! I asked him if he knew OWH and he said yes and then I told him who the OW was. He provided quite a bit of information. Said that OW does this all the time which is why OWH probably doesn't want to talk about it. He has pretty much resigned himself to it, according to my friend. Says that OW is a "nympho" and her husband realizes that he can't keep her satisfied. Also said that OW did "naked skydiving" last year and her H brought pictures of it into work to show all the guys there ( <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />WTF???). He then went on to tell me of other local men that OW has been involved with. My BIL was there for the whole conversation and said he is going to pass on that knowledge to WH. So that was the kick in the pants that I needed to get my a$$ to the doctor and get tested for STDs. I am PISSED. This is what I have been crying my eyes out about?? Makes sense as WH's coworker did say that OW was quite a flirt and put herself out there. And who took her up on her offer? Not the single guys, not the guy who has a terrible marriage or the guy whose GF is a drunken b*tch - Noooooo - it was my H - the guy who supposedly had it all. Hold on while I go vomit....

So now there are certain things that are surfacing that used to be at the back of my mind. WH, when we were first together said that his fantasy was to have a threesome or to have sex in front of another couple. He said it kind of half kidding but I also felt that he was testing the waters, too. I told him how I felt about it and it was never brought up again. I just put it down to "guy stuff" kind of fantasy. He also introduced porn into our relationship. We would watch a tape together every once in a while. I had never watched it before, but I know guys are very visual, so I figured what the heck. We agreed that we would only watch it together and it was only once in a while. About a year into our relationship, I found a receipt from an adult bookstore for a "lingerie show". When i confronted WH, he admitted that he had paid a woman to undress for him - a service offered at this particular place - because he was curious - something he always wanted to do. Huge fight. I told him I considered it cheating. Long story short, he begged for forgiveness, swore he would never do it again, and soon after that he ended up in the hospital. WH has a congenital heart defect that required implantation of a defibrillator. The whole incident just kind of got pushed under the rug and I had honestly forgotten all about it until this A with the OW started.
Sorry about the length of this post. What I am wondering now is if my WH has a SA? Could that be the reason that he says he "couldn't help himself" when this OW made blatant overtures?
This just keeps getting worse and worse.
WH talked to his mom yesterday and told her about our meeting Monday night and how I told him no more contact with me. I haven't talked to her myself, but that's what BIL told me. He says WH told her that he is going to break it off soon with OW. I told BIL that WH is just telling people what they want to hear, trying to keep his little house of cards from collapsing.
At this point, I am too angry to care what he does or doesn't do. Makes it a lot easier to detach <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />.

Wow Liz.

OW's a real class act, huh? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Nude skydiving?

This seems to be the norm, actually.

Let me ask you this: He very well could have very deeply rooted issues that are not gonna be resolved soon or easily. You have no children with this guy, your children are PO'd at him, you are not joined at the hip financially with him, and you're a classy lady. Despite this, you are working your butt off to salvage this marriage. What's wrong with this picture?

Just food for thought.

WAT

That's exactly the food that I am chewing on now. I guess it comes down to the fact that I feel really disappointed in myself. I went through a lot of counseling after failed marriages 1 and 2 for issues of childhood sexual abuse by an alcoholic, abusive father. Had issues of codependency (which apparently have resurfaced) and had a victim mentality. I thought I had made a much better choice this time and have been honestly happy for the past 8 years. I even spent 2 years alone after failed marriage #2 because I wanted to work on me and not get tangled in another bad relationship...and look where I am now.
I guess I have been working so hard to save this because I don't want to admit failure again. I don't want to think I am still that same person. I don't feel like her, yet I am back in another bad marriage. It sucks.

I of course cannot tell you what the "right answer" is.

I will suggest that you don't need to decide an answer right away.

Instead, right now in parallel, you can explore your own demons - perhaps with a counselor - and allow him to drift. An answer will present itself in a while, I bet.

WAT
---------------
Leap and the net will appear. "A Salty Piece Of Land" Jimmy Buffett

Played my regular night of pool last night. As I was getting ready to leave, one of the other players - a MARRIED man - stopped me to tell me that he knew of my situation and wanted me to know that he thought I was gorgeous and incredibly sexy. Then he just kind of stood there like he was waiting for me to jump on him!!! I lightly told him thanks, but shouldn't you say those kind of things to your wife? He started to tell me about how unhappy he is and I cut him right off and told him I had enough things of my own to deal with and I was not the person he should be talking to and I left. This is the fifth...yes, FIFTH married man that has hit on me since WH and I separated 3 months ago. Apparently I was cocooned in my own little world. When did cheating become the norm? When did it become OK? I am just sick about all of this.

Going to the doctor's today for an STD check. Can't wait - another pleasant reality to deal with.

BIL told me that WH's mother doesn't think he should be told the info about OW's previous infidelities. Thinks he will get mad at BIL. She wants to wait and tell him sometime next week that she heard it out and about. I told BIL that I disagree. Secrets and lies are what perpetuate A's. I told BIL that he should present it in a factual way...this is who I talked to...this is what he said...and end the conversation. He agrees.

Still angry today but I think that is where I need to be right now. Need to find another IC.

Men. They're ALL philanderers! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yep, blood in the water.

Fins to the left, fins to the right..........

It's OK to be angry. Get it out. Yell at us! Anger turned inward turns into depression.

So, some BIL, huh? Doesn't feel the need to look out for his bro?

WAT

BIL agrees with me. He and WH are playing in a pool tournament on Sunday. He says he will tell WH about OW on the way home.

Men are not ALL philanderers. If I truly believed that I would just give up on love completely <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />. Never have been a male basher - I like to take people on a case by case basis!

Perhaps you should rat one of the married guys to his wife? Word would get around QUICK not to hit on you - at least not the married guys.

WAT

Liz - FYI I'll be going fishing for a week starting the 25th. Won't be checking in on you.

WAT

Have fun WAT. Last time I went fishing I was 10 years old. I caught a catfish and brought it back with me to my grandmother's house and let it swim in her tub. She was NOT amused - you should have heard her scream <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. I didn't tell her about it, just closed the shower curtain and thought she wouldn't notice...LOL!

Today is day 4 of Plan B - not very long at all for all of you veterans, but seems like forever to me.

I have mixed feelings. There are times when I feel very relieved - I don't feel like I always have to have my guard up for when or if we see each other or speak to each other. I am not sitting around wondering why he's not contacting me like I did when we had the last period of 12 days without contact following exposure. I fully expect him to honor my request. It's easier for him to carry on his A without me around.

Other times, I wonder if this is the right step and I obsess about how this will all turn out. I spoke with my MIL today. She talked with WH after I initiated Plan B. Surprisingly, he told her about what had happened and admitted to his mother that he was still seeing OW, but not very often. He also told his mother that he was getting close to a decision about "all this" but didn't want to talk to anybody about it.

So, since I talked to her, I have been thinking about this all day. I have convinced myself that OW must be pregnant and they are planning on being together OR maybe she's not pregnant but they are still planning on being together and she quit her job because they could not still be together and work in the same place (company policy) and he doesn't want to talk about it because he doesn't want anyone to try to talk him out of it.

And then I get mad, and I think, that's it, I give up, I'm going to file for a divorce, this is too hard, I'll never trust him...blah, blah, blah.

Ok, I feel better now that I've gotten that all out.

It is probably normal to feel this way, right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Took my sons out last night for some shopping and dinner and we had FUN. Laughed and joked and played some silly word games. Youngest son had a really bad day, got a referral for getting into a fight at school. State "so what. Nobody cares what I do. Everyone just leaves." So, we had a little talk and I think the night out really helped him. Today, completely on his own, he wrote a letter to his teacher and apologized for his behavior! I told him I was very proud of him.

Also, for the first time, I just made plans for the future. I have been holding off on planning anything that we usually do because of situation with WH. But, I just purchased tickets for me and the boys to see a Mets vs. Yankees game at Yankee Stadium in July. Kind of feels like I have some sort of life back.

All of that sounds normal - unless you root for the Yankees. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

WAT

Die hard Mets fans. Just want to see the Yanks get pummeled at home <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

1 week into Plan B. I feel like I did back on D-day. Grieving the loss of my H. I cry at the drop of a hat. I want my life back, I want my H back, and I'm really scared that we will never get past this. On my way home from work this morning, for the first time, I allowed myself to picture them together, imagined him holding another in the arms I love so much.
How could this be us? Everyone who hears of it is blown away and says the same thing..."anybody but you two".
He hasn't changed his address yet. Got 2 bills delivered here. Should I return to sender? Forward them to his PO Box?
Having dinner with BIL and SIL tonight. Would just like to curl into the fetal position instead.
I can't believe that WH is feeling anywhere near as much pain as I am. He seemed to be okay the last time I saw him.
I have old voice mails on the answering machine that I listen to just to hear his voice. Unfortunately, none of them are from before D-day...the ones that ended with "I love you". What I wouldn't give to hear those words from my H again.