Hi all-
Please excuse me if I ramble here, but I need some feedback. This really doesn't have much to do with dating, but it could!

I'm a very opinionated person, always have been. I don't mince words, and more than once I've spewed things out without running through the gatekeeper in my head. When I do this, I normally realize it soon enough and go back and apologize for not being a little more tactful.
You know, I like that I'm this way. No one has to guess when it comes to me. You know where I stand, but you also know I'm still going to love you and that what I'm saying IS coming from my heart. If your looking for a stamp of approval for something you need called on, don't come to me...I like to say if a friend is going to step in front of a bus, I'm not going to stand there and do nothing. If you want it sugarcoated, again, I'm the wrong one you want to talk to!
I have many friends, all know this about me, as I've been this way for as long as I can remember. My friends also know I love them, would do anything for them, except enable them to do something that I don't believe in. Again, I don't feel I'm passing judgement, I just don't participate. For example, I have a very good friend who has an alcoholic husband. Now, I grew up with this, so there is some self-preservation, but I also know what she is doing to enable him. Sometimes she doesn't tell me what's going on. She knows where I stand. Other times she does, but she isn't coming for sympathy. I tell her these are her choices and it's not going to change-only she can. So, when she feels she's up to it, we'll talk about it-but it's her call. I don't ask and she only shares when she wants-BUT, she knows where I'm at with it.

A couple of weeks ago I went to a "group" of women-it's an accountability/support group (this is a group we, as friends, have put together). I've been involved for over 2 years, and some women have left and more added, there are a couple of us that have been there all along- I guess it would be about 4 out of 10 women, the rest came after me. Two of the women that came were involved with married men. Well, need I say how I reacted to that?! I told them exactly what I felt, that nothing but hurt would come from it, etc. It was not sugarcoated. I tried to explain to them that mine was a WH, and they were on a dead end road. This "session" was about a year ago.
Well, at our last meeting, 4 of the women (one has always disliked me, and she wasn't my fave either-so considering her input, I didn't care, but the others I did), told me they did not like my approach to giving "feedback". They brought up the situation above, and a couple of months ago when I told another gal I didn't think she should be lying to her finance about things she was doing.
At this meeting, I felt ambushed and attacked, I did not see it coming, and I was very hurt. (I had already shared, BTW, and had told them how down I have been feeling with my own issues-so I felt like I was being kicked when I was down).
Well, the jist of the feedback I received was asking me if I could approach how I speak differently because some people are afraid to talk when I'm there for fear of how I would react...???!!

I told them it sounded to me as if they were giving me a lot of power! Who CARES what I think? I asked them if they wanted me to leave the group and they said no, that I give good advice, but they would like me to say things more to their level, they actually asked me if I could change the way I say it so it won't be so hard for them to hear. They brought up my feedback to the girls that were dating married men and my feedback to the gal lying to her SO as examples of why I shouldn't come on so strong. I'm not one to say "I told you so", but I WAS right about the affair things, and the gal lying to her SO got in a huge fight over the deal. So, I don't care if I'm right or not, but I was!!
So, my question to the forum is: If I DO come on strong and I know it, should I change what I am and how I approach for the benefit of others?

I had mentioned in another thread that I keep picking "needy" men for relationships. I'm now realizing that I've also surrounded myself with needy women and I'm amazed at this revelation! My thought is that they don't want to hear what I have to say because they don't want to be held accountable. I truly feel there is some truth to that. However, I also want to be around people who hold ME accountable to be a better person, to continue to grow and be better...might this be a way I could be better? Or have I surrounded myself with people who just can't take the truth thrown before them. And how do I continue to surround myself with these kind of people? Most importantly, how do I find people who will continually push me to be the best I can be?

Okay, I think that's it-those are my thoughts and questions.
I quit the group by the way. I told them that if they were any kind of friends, they would have waited until I was a bit stronger and feeling better about myself to bring this up. I told them that if they truly knew me, they would know that this comes from my heart, nothing more, and that if what I say stings, more than likely that has to do more with them than me, and if it does sting, it's probably true, or again, they've given me too much power.

It's been hard to lose these friends at this time in my life. I've been struggling with other issues and I really needed support rather than what felt like an ambush. It's taken me a few weeks to even get this far to be able to try to explain my feelings, what happened and ask if I could be the problem? But I'm strong enough now, and if it is a problem, I want to fix it, not walk away from it...so lay it on me. Your thoughts and ideas please!
Thanks as always, I know I'll get good feedback!
D

Drita,

I think honesty is great, but I do feel that there can be honesty with tact and honesty without tact. Some people will act tactlessly and excuse it by saying that they are just being honest, which is a copout. I certainly like your direct style on these boards, so I wouldn't want that to change.

But this one comment jumped out at me:


I can't help but see a contradiction here. On the one hand, you say that if what A says to B stings B, then it's likely to be B's issue. On the other hand, you are upset that they said something to you when they did, knowing that it would hurt, instead of waiting. Does that mean that the fact that you are hurt is your issue? See what I'm getting at?

AGG

Hmm. It's awfully hard to make an accurate assessment without having witnessed the various confrontations themselves.

I myself am one who tells it like I see it, and who has sometimes been accused of being tactless, and who has sometimes upon reflection agreed that I was tactless. It may be that you could have communicated the same message in a softer way. If you had, it's possible that it may have been more readily received - or it's possible that it would have been more easily dismissed.

I am curious as to whether the women who criticized your approach had any concrete suggestions as to how you could have conveyed your message more palatably. If their preferred alternative was just that you shouldn't have conveyed those messages at all, then I'll readily admit that I would have quit the group too if I were in that situation. In fact, I have left groups because (although no one specifically took me aside to criticize me) I felt that my...ah...directness...would be disruptive to no good purpose. If the value held by the group was safety rather than growth, then I simply wasn't compatible with the group. I left with no hard feelings, and never regretted it.

It's gets more complicated if the issue was one of manner rather than message. Tact is a skill, and not one that comes naturally to everyone. I learned in junior high school that the Golden Rule was not completely applicable to me. For example, I was generally delighted with constructive criticism, and the less beating around the bush the better. I was eager to improve myself and under no illusion that I was perfect in any way. But I discovered that when I behaved toward others as I wished them to behave toward me, I could reduce someone to tears. For some reason still incomprehensible to me decades later, some people react to constructive criticism as if it were a personal attack.

Despite a frequently Spock-like affect, I have a compassionate heart, and the realization that there was such a thing as "tactlessness" devastated me as much as it confused me. Over the years I have attempted - with significant though admittedly limited success - to develop communication skills which are...gentler...without being any less direct. But it is still not natural to me.

And obviously, touching a moral nerve is about as volatile a situation as one gets.

So the bottom line, Drita, is that I could interpret your situation either way.

As far as finding people who will continually push you to be the best you can be, I'll just say that I've had much better luck in one-on-one situations than in "support" groups. I suspect that many people who gravitate toward groups may be looking for "safety in numbers." And honestly, I myself am more apt to lay out the details of my life or to ask pointed questions in a one-on-one situation than in a group. (In a group I tend more toward abstraction, lest I make someone uncomfortable without knowing it and have no chance to clarify or resolve matters.)

One true friend is worth...well, is worth a very great deal indeed.

Quote

At this meeting, I felt ambushed and attacked, I did not see it coming, and I was very hurt. (I had already shared, BTW, and had told them how down I have been feeling with my own issues-so I felt like I was being kicked when I was down).

Well, the jist of the feedback I received was asking me if I could approach how I speak differently because some people are afraid to talk when I'm there for fear of how I would react...???!!

Drita:

You call them as you see them and expect others to accept it since you shouldn't be given such "power" anyways. Take your own advice--they weren't beating you when you were down, they were calling it as THEY see it. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander--if you can't take them telling YOU that, why do you expect them to take your comments?

Hey Drita:

I can only offer what has worked for me - and how I got there. As you know - I also "call's em as I see's em" - and like you; that meant always being brutally honest. And for a long, long time - I did just as you're describing and hurt some friend's feelings along the way. Then I finally considered my motive - my REAL motive - which is "honesty", not "brutally". And now I've learned (and am/are still learning) to practice "gentle" honesty. Notice that the word "honesty" is still there - and is just as important as it was when using "brutal" honesty! And guess what? People are more receptive to hearing "gentle" honesty than brutal honesty! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> So - lesson learned for me.

Also; there are occasional moments when "brutal" honesty is appropriate. And since I remember how to be "brutally" honest - I can usually handle most of those situations as well!

Make sense?

FR

I certainly appreciate everyone's feedback, thank you!

It appears that for one, I need to practice what I preach. Second, that I may need to figure out how to put a little more thought into what I say when I care about the person I'm saying it to. This will be a HUGE change and a difficult one for me.
I feel I made the right decision to leave the group though, much like you said GDP, I think my approach is too strong for those types that seek a group. I had always considered that-looking at the people I'm surrounding myself with and to my dismay, they are much like the men I've surrounded myself with.
Ah, the continued revelations...constantly keeping me humble!
Thanks again everyone, I REALLY appreciate the unbiased feedback!

Hey, were you describing me? I am very similar.
My thought on with whom you surround yourself? It is far easier to fix someone else's problem than to look at your own. I know I am guilty of this (and learned codependence doesn't help here). So perhaps it is time to look inside and decide how you want to be perceived.
I am trying this myself.
And I am lucky to be surrounded by those who can "pull me up" and are farther along the emotionally healthy road than I am.

Ugh! When will it ever end?! I know you are right, but not looking forward to figuring this one out.
You know, when WH and I went to MC, I told MC, "these days I surround myself with nothing but healthy people" (and I really thought this was true. His response (which I will NEVER forget: How do you reconcile that sitting next to WH?
Whoa!

So, newly, you bring up a good point-surround yourself with those farther along...where and how to find these people? Other than MB!!!! ; )

Drita, I wish I could surround myself with people like you. Like you, I'm brutally honest. I have found out that our type of personality is rare and often other people don't know how to deal with that much honesty. I'm trying to learn how to be honest without being brutal. It's tough sometimes to find that balance between not changing who I am and being considerate of others.

I would be offended as well with the way the group ambushed you. However, it sounds like they made some valid points. You say they like your input but some of them can't handle the directness. This is their weakness, not yours. I suspect that some come more for the sympathy than actual advice so they are not going to want bluntness.

You question why you surround yourself with needy people. I know that when my life is at it's worst, it makes me feel better to help someone else. Often, that's why I come to this message board. We need some needy people in our lives because it makes us feel good to fix things. We just have to watch for the needy people that will take advantage of us.

If the group drains you, don't look back. Don't give them that much power. If you really miss and enjoy the group, suck it up. Tell them that you were hurt by how and when they approached you, but you will try to be more respectful of their feelings in the future. Let them know that you may slip but that you tell your opinion out of concern, and not to be hurtful.

Whatever you do, hold your head high and know that your special. Too few people in this world have the courage to be honest.

Drita, I'm just curious, are you an Aquarian? I think many Aquarian's have that trait (I'm a year older this week).

I was lucky to find a friend in my divorce support group who was leaps and bounds ahead of me in progress and that put me far above where I would have been on my own. Then the group gets extended and so on. One of the group now works at the UN in development across the world. She's very emotionally aware. That's my goal, to become emotionally intelligent and aware- and this doesn't come naturally to me. So I keep reading, plan a 3 hour drive this weekend which is a chance to listen to self help tapes, and be the best person I can be.
Until I am, why would I want to be with that person.
I love the MC's line. Yes, we chose wrong, what do we want next is up to us.

When you want to communicate something...anything...to someone else, you have to take responsibility for packaging your communication in a way that is most effective.

Simply being honest, without considering the needs or state of your listener is a poor communications practice. You have to take some responsibility for allowing the listener to hear what you are saying.

If you alienate them with your "direct" style, they no longer hear what you are saying. They don't feel that you care for them.

Caring about how your listeners will take your words is not "sugarcoating" - it's vital key to effective communication.

Let's come up with an obvious illustration...let's say you are talking to your 80 year old uncle who struggles to hear. You can be honest all day long, but if you don't consider that you must speak LOUDLY, you are wasting your breath. This is similar when emotional barriers exist...you MUST accommodate them to be effective.

Low

Newly,
I'm a Libra, actually.
However, I don't exactly consider myself much like other women. One reason is stated above, my directness. I'm not a real emotional person, I'm pretty even-tempered. I don't know if that has anything to do with it or not, but I just get too upset about things normall...

I've been asking around-my friends and aquaintances about my current dilemna, and there are a few that agree with me about the attacking ambush, but there's a good consensus that I'm not conveying the message I'm meaning to because of the way it is delivered. So, again I appreciate the input and will get to work on this so's I can call em like I see em, but either chose to be silent, or chose to be heard. As you say Low, if I want my message heard, it's my responsiblity. This has been eye opening. I've learned a lot about myself...again!

I'm told Libra's and Aquarians are a match. My X is a Libra, but with no communication skills. I too think more like a man than a woman, and work in a male dominated field. That came out in the psych evals. regarding custody.

I had to call in my friends today to edit a letter to a lawyer. X got a lawyer to force me to drive the kids to school on his overnights. Control freak? So, my friends had to "soften" my letter to the lawyer, and talked me through seeing the other side of things.

If you use only one style of communication/delivery no matter the setting, you're going to have problems.

What's effective and appropriate on the job is likely to cause friction in more personal relationships, for example. Even on the job, I've found that using the same verbal style with office admins, marketing types, and engineers will wind up with at least 2 of the 3 groups not being able to stand you.

Being blunt as all get out on a message board where people can just not read all posts from you is a very different matter from using the same verbal style in an in-person support group.

You say you felt attacked. They say they felt attacked. Everybody feels attacked. Since the only person you can change is you, it's a good idea to work on whatever ongoing patterns you have that seem to contribute to people feeling attacked.