Where to start. My wife of almost 17 years is suffering from depression. According to her docter is a rather complicated form of depression. From time to time she can be two totally different people. One person I love with all my heart. One I can honestly say I hate. The person I love I would do anything for, to say the least, I love my wife with all my heart and soul. I came home the other day from a short trip and was excited, she had mentioned that maybe we should take a trip together. Dominican Republic, or some other southern adventure. I called her on her cell and told her I was home. She made small talk for awhile and I had told her I was looking on the net for vacation packages. At the time she was at town with the kids at a rolling skating rink. Soon after she hung up she came home, by herself, and declared she couldn't go on a trip with me and that she was seeing someone else and that she was in love with this person. I was shocked to say the least. We talked and I told her that I loved her, that I meant what I said the day we got married. I also understand that depression can make people do things they normally wouldn't. She said she couldn't give me an answer about our future, she would have to think. The next morning I was going to work but turned around and came home. I needed to talk to her. I missed my wife. She asked if I could stay and talk. She told me she didn't want to leave and that she made a huge mistake. I can understand the depression and I still want my wife beyond belief. The problem is this. I've been hurt beyond words but it's not hardly practical to talk to her. She feels guilty aleady and when I try to say anything about how I feel she breaks down and I'm sacred she will fall into a deeper depression. The other painful thing is that she said she loves this person. She can't say the same thing about me. Who do I talk to? I'm seeing a therapist and it helps. What should I do? I really don't have anyone other than my therapist to talk to. I'm not sure my friends would understand. My sister suffers from depression too. I'm going nuts. I feel like my feelings are just under the surface of my emotions. On top of it, my wife really hasn't even asked my how I'm doing, even though she obviously appreciates the fact that I'm trying everything I can to help her. I'm at a loss. Can someone help me. I'm just a normal guy with two great kids.

Welcome, Mark, to a world I didn't know existed when I was in your shoes, but it saved my marriage.

Please read all you can of Harley's articles on the Lovebank, Emotional Needs (ENs), Lovebusters, Coping with Infidelity (many parts)...all of them are really really full of answers.

I am not making light of your situation by the really really...it got my attention and does well to show your pain. Just wanted you to know that I'm giving that same level of dedication back to you, albeit, with a low sense of humor.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

"I've been hurt beyond words but it's not hardly practical to talk to her. She feels guilty aleady and when I try to say anything about how I feel she breaks down and I'm sacred she will fall into a deeper depression. The other painful thing is that she said she loves this person. She can't say the same thing about me."

Yes, you've been hurt beyond words and comprehension that you could hurt this much. Everyone in this forum knows one end or the other of this pain. You're not alone.

I can help you on the hardly practical talking to her...depends on what you mean by talking to her. Read up on Plan A, that should help with that desire. If she is in an affair, and I say "if" because you didn't say you had proof, just her information, then Plan A will guide you on what to do next. There's no talking to her in Plan A if it is to change her mind, get back her love, make her stop hurting you...that's why you have to figure out what you wanted to talk about that is made impractical by her. Did you mean her attitude right now or depression?

If you are saying how you feel with "I" statements and she breaks down, then that isn't you doing that to her; it is her expressing how she feels, also. She may go deeper into depression or not...affairs are often the drug people use to give them a false feeling of not being depressed. Her depression didn't make her have an A (affair); she chose to do that.

How much do you work away from home? Have you talked to her doctor, know her prescriptions and course of therapy?

Now to the part that yanked my heart--she says she loves this person. Please know that you are not listening to your wife, the woman you vowed to love and cherish...you are speaking to her clone, an alien. We call them Wayward Spouses for a reason--they aren't the people we knew. This is temporary. Her words and actions are coming from a fog she is in...She does not love this person. She loves the feelings, the high, she gets from someone else right now. That's the drug, the addiction. It is not someone who is better than you and it does not mean she does not love you because she believes she is loving someone else in your place.

You are not replaceable. If you read the ENs section and do the questionnaire, you can educate yourself on her needs and where you might not have been filling them--maybe with solid effort, but in a different language than she could understand. And vice versa. Your wife can and will fall in love with you again. Just depends on what steps you want to take to achieve that. Big guarantee, huh? Well, maybe I'm overstating the "will" part because of my experience.

I'm happy you're in therapy. Is your therapist pro marriage?

You have us, everyone here on this board, to talk to...and we've all been through or are going through what you are. Can't think of a better, ready-made group of friends. All you have to bring are your thoughts, feelings, beliefs and honesty. We'll do the rest. (Okay, I'm feeling rather smart alecky, aren't I?)

Have hope and know that this journey can be the best thing that ever happened to you for your personal growth. Here is where you can learn great listening skills, respectful beliefs and actions, what your personal truth is and how to understand all of your emotions.

Please don't hold it against your wife (create a resentment) that she isn't asking you how you're doing, how you're handling this news. Rejoice that you believe she appreciates all your efforts. That's huge at this stage and full of hope.

Read Plan A and post your questions. We'll be here for ya.

LA

Welcome. Your situation sounds very, very promising. The next step is that she needs to have no contact ever again with this man. See if she is willing to do that. It is the only way she will get back her feelings for you and the marriage.

Thanks for the quick reply. It is comforting to know there is some source of communication out there.

"I can help you on the hardly practical talking to her...depends on what you mean by talking to her. Read up on Plan A, that should help with that desire."

You mentioned Plan A. I didn't know of plan A until tonight but I believe that I have naturally followed that path. My wife has promised me that she would make no more contact with this man. I went to his house and personally asked him to not make contact with my wife. He agreed.

"How much do you work away from home? Have you talked to her doctor, know her prescriptions and course of therapy?"

The day after she told me of the affair she was in a terribly bad emotional state. I was very worried. I called her shrink and we both went to the session. He described things like bi-polar, depression, ect. He adjusted her meds. She is currently on Cymbalta (sp?).

"I'm happy you're in therapy. Is your therapist pro marriage?"

We then went to a therapist the following day. I believe he is pro marriage.


"Please don't hold it against your wife (create a resentment) that she isn't asking you how you're doing, how you're handling this news. Rejoice that you believe she appreciates all your efforts. That's huge at this stage and full of hope."

I not trying to hold this against my wife. But as everyone here probably knows, we are only human. We have needs. This is the time in my life when I need the most from the one I love. Yet, in my mind there is little she can do to help me.

"She loves the feelings, the high, she gets from someone else right now"

Interesting perspective on her perception of loving this man and your idea that she is in love with the feelings and the high. That definatly was reasuring.

How many times does a betrayed spouse end up having an affair? It feels so good to talk to people I'm afraid I could easily become attracted to someone and do something foolish.

How do you get the visions of your wife and another man out of your head? Arrrgh

Mark,

It sounded like you were in a natural Plan A. That will only get you so far. Glad you're reading up on it. You sidestepped an important part, though...the no contact letter.

I hear that you've put this to rest without feeling the need of one. I would offer if that is correct, that you will miss out on some important seeds to growing recovery:

In the NC letter, your wife says that the affair was wrong, that she loves you and wants to work on her marriage. That she does not love OM and that he not contact her for any reason.

Potent stuff. Ownership and written promise. Also relieves WW in a vital way--a structure, a goal and way back to you.

Your choice.

How will she be transparent to you so that you know she is not in contact? Give her the baby steps she needs to walk that way back to you. Helps her. Helps you.

How long was the A?

"I not trying to hold this against my wife." Again, your choice. You feel you need her...to be/do/say what(?) right now? And why would you believe her? You choose to create resentment, and this one will hinder your recovery...create one now, another next week...build up more and you won't have feelings left for your wife. I really want you to love your wife through this time. My perspective.

Humans choose what they want, need and desire. They mess up. I'm not holding your feelings against you--they are yours. It is just that resentment is the only we create within ourselves for a purpose (which isn't a good purpose)..the rest of the emotions are just information. They are yours. I respect them. Want to hear about them. No judgment here.

You can believe that which you cannot see...that in time, your wife will care very much how you are doing, what you are feeling and thinking and intimacy will restart. Right now, she's overwhelmed by her own feelings. She adds yours to hers and then she is where...lost. Natural, human self-protection. It's temporary. It's not truth.

"How many times does a betrayed spouse end up having an affair?"

Not too often. They come here and find out from those who have, that it creates more problems in an already complex situation. You add to the crap. Both in yourself and your marriage. You don't get to take the hero's journey, but a villainous one that is really hard to come back from. See, you don't get to blame it on fog, unmet needs...it is clear choice. You KNOW what anguish this is and willfully impose it on someone you profess to love.

Abominable comes to mind.

However, that is what my H did. I could be biased. Then again, he's discovering his history of EAs that he didn't see before, so this one is just the last one before he learned.

Being here means you learn vicariously. Your choice. I don't think you'll find any takers here at all. You will find a mind-blowing marriage if you stick with the hero's journey.

I applaud your honesty in asking and stating. You recognize something really important--you look to others to fill yourself...ease your pain, lift your spirits, tend your wounds and be your comfort. What I preach is that there is your Achilles' heel. Know it. Understand it. Then do all those things for yourself. If you don't, then you will continually replace people to meet those needs--you will be where your wife is now. Terrible thing to do to a human...any human.

Triggers...those visions...are a life-giving art you develop in time. You will learn that you have 30 seconds of allowance time before you get the emotional suckerpunch in your gut from your thought. The pictures sashay in and you see them, stunned, you hold them...learn to toss them out with the trash. They are your imagination. You are doing it to yourself...some punishment your brain believes you think you deserve. Each time you rid yourself of them faster than 30 seconds, you save your gut. You do this 100 times a day in the first month. 50 times a day in the next month...10 times in the third month...2 times a week in the fourth month...1 a month in a year...your mileage may vary.

You learn to put down the visual and focus on what triggered you...distract from the image. You accept this is part of healing, bless it and move on to your next moment. Eventually, no images come at all. Your brain somehow figures out that what it thinks you want and what you really want are opposite. Then it helps.

Read, read and read...really helps. "Surviving An Affair," "Torn Asunder" "His Needs, Her Needs." "Not Just Friends." Lots of great stuff out there. What books does your IC tell you to read?

LA

"How long was the A?"

I'm not really sure, a couple months I think. I don't really even want to think of it. My body goes numb.

"In the NC letter, your wife says that the affair was wrong, that she loves you and wants to work on her marriage. That she does not love OM and that he not contact her for any reason"

The painful part of this is she can't say that she loves me. That she told me she could be in love with this person. That sticks in my heart.

Maybe I made a mistake. 2 days after she told me, Tuesday, Valentines day, we were talking. It was a good talk, an understanding talk, an intimate talk. I then asked her if I could make love to her. She said she couldn't and that's when she said she didn't even know if she loved me and that she might love this other guy. I told her that if she wanted to stay in our marriage that he couldn't have that part of our life. It's the most intimate part of a relationship and at that time he owned it, not me. Sometimes I feel like I'm just there in a utilitarian form. The friend, the person who will help her through the problems and then ultimatly not be the one she chooses. Wow, I guess my insecurities are blazing through huh. Was I wrong to ask her so soon after she told me of the affair?

Have you been tested for STDs yet? Has she? Really needs to be done before SF resumes.

The length of the A is important to give you an idea of the length of withdrawal. If she had an EA before the PA, then the A is longer.

Sounds like you're still focusing on what you need to live and not on recovering your marriage. You are also believing what she says as fact, not her temporary truth. She lied to you and has lost her credibility. You can listen and repeat to her what you hear, but I wouldn't take it as gospel.

Yes, your insecurities are part of Plan A...discovering what about you is defined by her and her actions towards you. Finding out where you end and she begins. Benefits? Puts respect back into the marriage where it had leaked out before.

Protect yourself and get checked out if you've had SF when you didn't know about the A.

Plan A can restore the feelings she loves and attribute them to you. Has she had contact with him since the weekend?

I know your stomach clenches, heart burns and you feel replaced in all ways. Please tell yourself the truth--you are not replaceable. You are you. Totally worthy, complete, lovable and valued. Time to do that work on yourself, not to eliminate your insecurities, but to see where they were formed and whether they are still valid.

You may feel utilitarian, but you are unique. You can fight for your marriage.

I remember how difficult it was to hear I wasn't loved anymore. Very rough in my most intimate self. He couldn't feel love for me because of his anger, resentments piled over it. It was there all the time, just under a lot of accumulated garbage.

Can you believe in something you can't see?

LA

God I just feel sick. The thought of even asking about STD's. This makes me angry and I know anger isn't going to help me through this. But you are right, I must ask.

"Sounds like you're still focusing on what you need to live and not on recovering your marriage. You are also believing what she says as fact, not her temporary truth. She lied to you and has lost her credibility. You can listen and repeat to her what you hear, but I wouldn't take it as gospel."

I believe I am working on the marriage and I do beleive it will get better. I think she has begun to heal. Remember, she suffers from a complicated form of depression. Like you said, she chose to have a relationship, not the depression. The depression had to make her more vulnerable.

She has good friends and family. They are very supportive of her and realize how hard we're trying to repair what has happened. They have helped her. That's the number one thing for me right now is for her to gain her self esteem back. Mine can wait, that's why I'm here. I can't let her slip farther into depression. She is a *very* good person and I love her beyond words.

I'm probably coming off differently in here than I am around her. With her I am trying to heal our marriage. In here I am asking all the questions and releasing all the questions, anger, insecurities that I can't with her if I expect her to make things work. It's just a release. I need to release some of it.

"She has good friends and family. They are very supportive of her and realize how hard we're trying to repair what has happened. They have helped her. That's the number one thing for me right now is for her to gain her self esteem back. Mine can wait, that's why I'm here. I can't let her slip farther into depression. She is a *very* good person and I love her beyond words."

This didn't come out right. They know how bad her depression has been, they don't know of the affair. No one knows other than me. I think that's how it should be kept. I don't see why anyone else would ever need to know.

Sounds like your wife may be suffering from Bi polar manic depression, if this is the case you're dealing with a different kind of infedelity. If that is the type of depression she has your marriage could have a bleak outlook. One side of my family carries that type of depression, I have seen them all, including my own mother pursue numerous affairs throughout the years without remorse, usually they don't even feel they are doing anything wrong. Just a warning, hope this isn't the case for you.

Her shrink came out and eluded to that fact the other day. Scary. She is totally aware that bipolar may be the case and it scares her. The whole thing scares me. On one hand I don't want my wife to be medicated her whole life, on the other hand she's two totally different people during her episodes. One good, one bad. Do you suppose that's where Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde came from? Manic depression. I'm serious, it's really wierd. She can be two totally different people.

Bipolar disease is treatable. I think it is good that she realizes that may be it.

We believe that my step-daughter may be, and she just won't even consider going to a doctor. She is the same way. She has a good side, and a very, very bad side.

Hi everyone. Wow, I just don't even know where to go. I feel like such a loser. My wife and I will talk and I will feel pretty good about everything but then she turns cold and distant. Each time I complement her or make any type of flirtatous advance she retreats into this shell. Then I get these thoughts of her and him and I ask why?? Why is it me who has been with her through the good and the bad. Through the birth of our kids, through tragic family events, the tough everyday things that people have to do to survive? And this guy strolls on in and gets my wifes heart. Not me. I haven't been a perfect husband, but I haven't been a bad husband. I know I could be better, just like she has plenty of her own faults. I just tried to go to bed and it's going to be impossible. The anxiety is just overwhelming. She & I mailed the letter to him today in which she told him that she will no longer be seeing him. She has been cold all day. If she does love him should I just say forget it? I have no chance. My kids will simply have to spend half of their time with this person who has no moral values? He slept with my wife! I want him spending time with my kids? Do I want him in any way influencing my kids? No way!!! What are my choices? What a sense of hopelessness, anger, pain, rejection. At what point do I go with plan B? She sent the letter to him. It's only been a week and a half since I found out. At what point do I say just go! I have a feeling she will go to him, even though she says that she really feels the bipolar problem had more to do with her actions than anything? How do I know what is the disease and what are her real feelings? My legs are numb, my arms are numb. I want to scream, I want to leave. I really need Gods help.

Your choices...

to not believe there is love between WW and OM...because there isn't. She loves the fantasy...clean slate, total admiration, appreciation, adoration....the triple a's of, well, A's. Cheap way to fix what is broken inside of her.

You didn't cause her choice...she choose.

Do not choose to look for logic...or you'll lose your mind. A's are due to feelings...living and deciding your life from them instead of fact, reason, and that feelings only tell you what you believe, anyway.

Change the belief...then your feelings will change.

You didn't change your belief. Don't change now...God is with you, in the pain, the rejection...you're identifying all of your emotions very well.

Now...

Be still.

Her choices aren't about you...they are about her.

Bipolar does affect. Does not excuse.

You can do this...read ark^^ posts, pendragon, Mimi's threads...and learn about Plan A and improving your life...beginning with your own personal recovery.

God wants you back. You are gonna need him. He'll be there for you.

We're here for you, too.

LA

Well I'm into this 2 1/2 weeks. Still just seems surreal. Sleep is nearly impossible with the nightly anxiety attacks. One thought of my wife with the OM and sleep is out of the question. Like I've said in my previous posts she is fighting bipolar. She is taking cymbalta and just start mood leveler today. I've tried to talk to her about my feelings and she claims she can't even get to that point until she has dealt with her depression/manic episodes. She told me yesterday that it isn't helping that I'm moping around the house at times. I guess it probably isn't but it is a little hard not to be depressed. I can at times be more upbeat and she does seem to follow. I don't know what to think. I'm new to this whole bipolar diagnosis. If anybody has had issues with bipolar would they message me? How long can I expect to last without being able to address this with her? Can I last? Is it possible?

I want to enocourage you to take care of yourself. If you are having trouble sleeping try posting here right before bed and it seems to help. Even if you do not get a response just posting will help. (Tylenol PM became my good friend for a month or so. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />) It does get better though. I read and wrote a lot. Still do at times.I filed for divorce one month ago. Things are really hard but it does get better. The first few months after finding out about affair are in my opinion the toughest. At least for me it has been so far. you can make it through this. keep posting. There are some very wise people here.

How long after you found out did you decide to file for a divorce? What prompted you to do it? Sometimes things seem to be getting better, sometimes she seems like I don't even know this person. Did you feel some relief when filing or did things get worse?

One other question. I keep trying to do nice things for her; bought her a massage, doing a lot of the house work, make her coffe in the morning, buy her lunch, ect.. Most of the time it doesn't seems like she cares. Do I keep doing them hoping that after awhile she looks back an appreciates them or do I stop doing them hoping that she misses them???

i just read you thread and wanted to ask you...Do you know anything about this OM? like is he married? Does she work with him? Making sure that there is NC is important.

When i went and exposed to OWH he believed me and sure enough OW confessed...but only confessed her version of the A. that was 2 months ago. The A is still very ongoing and i contacted OWH 2 weeks after i exposed and he didn't want to believe that it could be...he blew me off stating he trusted and believed his W that my H and her were not in contact....polietly asked me NOT to contact him again. My point is make sure she is in NC with OM. Realize that she will be in withdrawl over it...on top of her depression...my H also suffers from the same. I completely know how difficult it is. one day H is like his old self the next...a complete stranger.

Its hard. Pray! PRAY! God loves you and your M more than you do and HE wants it to work out more than you do. I hope you find comfort in knowing that...i do. Remember also...it all takes time. easier said than done. hang in there! jaysmom

I filed about 5 months after I found out. he admitted it but now says he didn't really mean it when he confessed it. OKKKKK! I think being kind is a wise thing to do. of course when you go into Plan B there is very little contact etc. but still everything should be done in a civil way. Just follow the steps in whatever stage you are in. I would get discouraged when in Plan A but Believer would always just remind me to hang in there and really try. i did but it did not work. I really believe his mind was made up and it wouldn't have mattered what I did. Now he wants to come back home but still it is all on his terms. no real progress at all. I think the important thing to me was to know I had really done all that I could do. Even though I have made my decision and know it is best it is still very hard.