This weekend my wife admitted having an affair with a co-worker/friend. It happened during a business trip, 7 months ago. Since then they have talked on the phone but she says that they never discussed what happened. They supposedly haven't talked to each other in 4 months now. I had suspicions for a while and ask her the question point blank a few times over the last few months but she always denied it. This weekend I asked again, she was silent, she put her hands on her face, and finally told me what happened.

She tells me that she didn't love him and doesn't love him now, that she feels terrible about what happened and that she wishes she could change it, that what she did was stupid and that she hates herself for it. She tells me that she was tired of lying to me and that I sure didn't deserve to be treated like this. She also tells me that she is committed to making things work between us and to recover our mariage. I also want to make it work, I love her and I couldn't imagine living without her, we also have two children.

Our relationship wasn't that great before the affair. I think that we just weren't paying much attention to each other - we had a lot going on and we weren't very close. While it's not an excuse to have an affair I still think that in one way or another it contributed to the events. Since the affair, the situation has been difficult as well. She has been distant, depressed, and we have had very little intimacy. We have made love a few times but for example she doesn't kiss me. I think that they are two factors at play here: first we are still not very close, we probably don't talk enough or do enough things together - we are consumed by our heavy work schedules and our kids. Second she feels terrible about what happened, she despises herself for it. She says that she has a hard time being physically close when we are emotionally distant.

Since I found out about the affair I have been going through a roller-coaster of emotions. From anger to being nice and wanting to rebuild our mariage, from wanting hugs to wanting to throw her out of the house. Strangely I have some form of separation anxiety as well, I want to be with her all the time now, literally next to her, I don't like being alone anymore. I wonder if that's because part of me feels that I could have completely lost her. I cannot imagine my life without her but I know that it's going to be very difficult for me to get over this betrayal.

One aspect that I am perseverating over right now are the details of the affair. What day did it start on? Who initiated? How many days did it last? At this point I am even asking her what sexual acts were performed. She has been fairly open about everything but refuses to discuss the details of the affair, specifically the sexual acts. She tells me that it's pointless and too difficult for her to talk about that. In some way I see that as an act of defiance, as if once again she was lying to me, hiding things from me, for some reason. But at the same time I wonder if I should know those sexual details or not, will that help me or will that hurt me, is there really any point in me knowing this? I also sense that pushing her over and over with those questions is driving her away from me and further delaying the rebuiling of our mariage. Do you have any advice along those lines? Should I try to find out those sexual details? Please help me I am so desperate right now.

Im sorry this has happened, you know there was an affair, you feel you need to know the details, it hurts. Know ing the details will hurt more. If you love your wife and want to salvage your marriage get to a counsler ASAP. Work on what.

Asterix, I know exactly how you feel. If anything though, I think you are in a better situation than I am in...at least your wife wants to work it out. Mine has told me on several occasions that she doesn't want to work things out...but for some strange reason she is still living with me. We have a 2 year old daughter together.

If I can offer any advice, it's to hang in there. I too had many of those same emotions you are going through. They lasted for about a month or two, but still continue to creep back into my mind today from time to time. My wife is totally against counseling. I went to see a counselor myself, but it really didn't help me much. Although one piece of advice from the counselor has helped a little bit...start journaling. Write down things on paper about how you feel. It sort of helps relieve yourself.

You sound much like myself when I found out. Shocked. In the first month alone I lost almost 30 pounds...not exactly a healthy way for losing weight. I hope I was able to help you out. Hang in there...I have a feeling we both have a long road ahead of us.

I mentioned the counselor to my wife but she says that it may be too early. She says that she would be too embarassed to admit what she did to a stranger. That the thought of doing that is overwhelming to her right now.

Sadmm,

Thanks for your note. In a way I agree that it is all very relative, or different degrees of 'bad' if you will. I tell myself that it could have been worse: she could be pregnant with his child, the affair could still be going on, she could be in love with him, she could still be seeing him on a daily basis, she could not be interested in rebuilding a life with me, etc. The affair took place right before we relocated the whole family to another state for her work, so in a way it was impossible for the affair to continue, at least physically. Emotionnally she tells me that there was nothing romantic in their discussions or phone calls after this happened - they are in the same business and apparently their chats were all business. Now they haven't spoken in months. Part of me thinks that they both realized very quickly that they are done something very wrong, a big mistake, and that they were stupid to risk all they had for that week of sex. He also has a successful career and three kids. About that she actually told me that she also felt very bad because out of this she also lost a good friend. She also tells me that she may need some closure on that, maybe talking to him to apologize for contributing to ruining this friendship. Obviously their relationship will never be the same now. At this time I have told her that I didn't want her to contact him ever again. I have also sent an email and left a voice mail to the guy demanding the same thing. He hasn't responded to anything yet, and I don't think that he will.

I have indeed felt that journaling helps. In fact I am trying to kill two birds with one stone there, I journal my feelings in emails that I send her throughout the day. Like this it is also a way for me to communicate with her, something that was lacking between the two of us before. She also reads about what I am going through and she responds with words of encouragement and reinforcing her love for me and how much she cares. I don't know if it's a good idea for me to do this, but it helps. I feel calmer inside when I can write it down, it buys me a few minutes of peace before the anxiety comes back.

I learned about this thing on Saturday morning but I still made reservations for a dinner and a night at the Ritz with her for Valentine's day. The evening went well, in a way we were both trying not to bring up the affair and enjoy each other's company. For me it took a real effort not to ask questions about this, it was a bit artificial maybe but we had a nice evening. I thought about 'depositing love units' as I have read in a column.

One of my toughest moments is at night when I am lying in bed next to her and the lighs are turned off. So many images come to mind and they haunt me, I imagine their sexual encounter, how it happened, what happened, and it drives me crazy. I am losing sleep over this. My appetite has also been terrible - I skip breakfast, lunch, and only eat a little bit for dinner - I easily feel noxious. I am getting a lot of physical symptoms right now from feeling sick, to feeling cold, and I have waves of anxiety.

Asterix,

It sucks! All I can tell you is, everything you are going thru is normal.

Take it very slow on the type of information you ask. Those images you have at night of your W are vague compared to what you might depict if you knew more. Sounds like she is embarrassed, and protecting you also. If you do feel you need more info, take it slow. She should let you know anything you want, but from my experience.. Don't get details.

You are right, it could be worse, but that does not stop it from being probably one of the most crushing events you will "or should" ever have to deal with.

Read all you can here, and best of luck.

Asterix, I agree with what Justkeeptrying said. Take it slow. When I found out about the affair, my wife gave me some details which I feel actually made it even worse for me. Even worse than that, she told me she had a lot of feelings for him and was in love with him. She then went on to say I could never satisfy her, or make her happy the way he can. All of those things HURT EXTREMELY HARD !!!...to this day, over 3 months later.

Sadmm,

What your wife told you is indeed incredibly crushing. I cannot imagine how you must have felt when you heard those words. Obviously at this point I cannot provide any insights or advice about any of this. My head is still under water and I don't have any perspective on any of that stuff. But thank you so much for talking to me and responding to my messages. It feels good to talk.

JustKeepTrying,

Yes she feels very embarrassed and ashamed of herself, not necessarily for the details of what happened but for the fact that it happened at all. Basically she keeps repeating that she is 'ashamed' and that discussing the details 'would serve no purpose'. Part of me wants to rush through this so that maybe the pain will go away faster. But I also understand that there are certain things that I can't hurry. I will take your advice about getting to the details - anyway it seems that it creates even more tension when I start probing and in the end it may not be worth it.

What do you all think about the 'closure' that she talks about? The fact that they never discussed what happened. She told me that at some point she may want to apologize to him, probably for having ruined their friendship. How could that help me or us? She tells me that it was both their fault, that one was not more at fault than the other for what happened - so in a way I don't understand why she would want to apologize. Maybe she should just leave it alone. They haven't talked in over four months anyway and with the email that I sent him and the voice mail that I left on his voice mail, I doubt that it will try to initiate any discussion.

The only recommendation I would give would be to follow the advise you will find all over this board. Which is the "NC" No Contact letter.

Sending a NC letter that requires no response. She can explain what a mistake she has made, and to please respect her wishes to work on her M by not attempting any further contact.

Regarding the discussing details serving no purpose. I have read BS wanting details, and others like myself that did not. When my W and I talked about her A, I fould a line where I decided I had heard enough detail and just wanted confirmation she really wanted me and our M.

This will not be something thats fixed or goes away over night. I am coming up on 2 years, and it's a work in progress "as you can see" I still come here and read every day. But it's much better than it was days, weeks, even months after the initial wound.

On a positive note I really believe we were lucky to survive, and that as a result we stay focused on how difficult and important our M is.

Is your W reading here also?

Also some other things the two of you should do together.

Read SAA - Surviving an Affair
HSHN - His Needs Her Needs

Make a plan to do things together at least once a week. "Date Night" "Movie Night" etc...

I have actually ordered the book 'surviving an affair' today and told her that I would like both of us to read it. I have also printed out the 'emotional needs' questionnaire and I would like both of us to fill it out. It may help.

At this time I haven't told her about this site, just that I had been visiting some discussion groups on the topic. The problem is that, unlike me, she really doesn't much of an opportunity to be on the Web during the day - and in the evening she never spends any time on the computer just because between the kids and the household things there is just too much to do before we need to go to bed.

After our Valentine date this week I also told her that it would be nice to spend some more time one-on-one, like the movie/dinner dates you are talking about. She seemed agreeable. Not always easy to do that with the kids but we will try.

One thing that I think is a little weird about all this is that I seem to be doing all the work - even though I am the one who was cheated on. I surf the sites, I buy a book, I organize a date, I am the one trying to come up with a plan - while she does just seem to sit back and let nature take its course. Is that normal?

Im not sure if it's normal, but I can certianly relate. I have a feeling alot of that depends on personality type.

I suspect, you like me want to have a plan of action, with a vision, and a goal. If I were to summarize what I see looking at my W's planning. I see controlled chaos!

The good of this mix is, what stresses me doesn't phase her, and vise versa.

I can relate on the schedule. We have 3 kids 14/13/5. Also my second job: Competitive Soccer Dad.

I highly recommend doing the EN questionaire. Don't do it together, do it indivually and swap when done. I had to bug my W 2 months to get that done.

My W had no desire to read here either, but she is proactive in her own quiet way.

On date night. Switch it up. One week you make the plans, the next it's her turn. That should give you an indication of where she stands. Don't reminder just mention it once, and see if she follows thru.

My W and I will just do little things together " run to the store for bread and milk". Got to the point she hates to go alone.

When I really see results is when I take things of her busy plate and do them myself. She will rarely ask for help so I have to do the "mind reader thing" all to often.

At this point I am a bit stressing about the 'counseling' thing. I have read a few things and I feel that unless we go to counseling right away we are doomed. Others are talking about 'coaching' as a bridge to counseling but with the same level of urgency. The problem is that my wife doesn't feel comfortable going to counseling at this time, she is ashamed and doesn't want to talk to a stranger about this. Part of me also feels that I am rushing, that I should just let the dust settle, I just heard about the affair 5 days ago. Any advice about this counseling thing? What determines whether you need counseling or not?

At this point my plan is to:
- spend some quality time together, talk, and try to reconnect. Count our blessings. Try to be nice and comforting for each other, do nice things for each other. Obviously I will be struggling with my anger and sadness, and she may be struggling with her shame along the way. My rationale here is that these are not only pleasant things to do together but it also addresses what I believe was/is a deeper issue in our couple, that is the emotional distance/disconnect that we had before the affair and since the affair.
- read the book and fill out the questionnaires
- after a while, if we are not making much progress and spinning our wheel, seek counseling.

What's wrong with this short/medium-term plan?

Hi asterix! I really feel for you. Have you thought about individual counselling for yourself? This helped me immensely in the first couple of months after D-Day. I attended about 4 sessions, then gave it a rest over Christmas to "let the dust settle". I now feel that I am ready to go back again as I still feel very hurt and angry.


My FWH has not yet gone to counselling as he too feels very embarrassed and ashamed. However the two of us have talked so much over the last five months about everything and we continue to keep the lines of communication open every day. Things are slowly working out for us, despite my regular feelings of anger, despair and disbelief (I don't think the disbelief will ever go away!).


I was so nervous when I first went to the counsellor as I am a very private person. I saw a female counsellor and felt very awkward at first. But when she said, "How can I help you?", the floodgates opened. It was actually easier to talk to someone who did not know either of us. The C did not judge either my FWH or myself.


I think that if you find that you are consumed/obsessed with thoughts of what has happened in the past and feel that the future looks cloudy, then you need counselling (or at least a good impartial friend to talk to). If you can't function normally day-to-day you need counselling. If you are having feelings of despair and feel there is no-one to talk to, you need counselling. Asterix, keep up the lines of communication with your wife. Perhaps try the individual counselling if you feel you need it (it is up to you how many sessions you attend). Then you could try to allay your wife's fear of counselling by telling her of your experience.


Good plan! This is what my FWH and I are doing.


It's a great first step. After all, we can only take one day at a time and try to make the most of it. Later on down the track you may both decide that you are ready for marriage counselling, but by this stage you might have moved past this. Who knows? I think recovery is like a spiral - just when we think we've gone past a certain emotion, it spirals back and smacks us in the face again!

Keep up the reading and look at this forum for tips. There are many experienced people here. Relaxation tapes and meditation tapes may help both you and your wife. Keep up a healthy diet and regular exercise to combat stress. (Something that I have gotten back into since the new year).

As an aside - In the first few days after D-day, I insisted on my husband telling me anything and everything, including all the sexual things, about his affair. He was a bit reluctant to tell me, but he wanted to do whatever I requested. I thought I wanted to know this but now after 5 months the "gory" details are permanently etched in my mind.

I hope everything works out for you both.

Cheers <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Don't worry - as your M gets better during recovery, you will obsess less and less about those details that you found out.

I found that what helped in my case was to write them out (along with all the other details of the A) and file them away somewhere.

Last night was tough. Right before dinner I started probing into the timeline of this whole thing. Originally I though that the affair was limited to that week during the 'business trip'. Yesterday I came to find out that they have been romantically involved for one to two weeks before that, no sex, but obviously kissing and things like that. She had only told me about the 'sex' part of the affair, not mentioning the rest as she had put that under the umbrella of 'details'. I really lost it... I yelled at her, called her terrible names, told her to get out of the house, I cried, she cried, at one point I packed a bag and she begged me to stay. We are both exhausted by this whole situation. She tells me that she shakes when we are in the same room because she is so stressed about all the probing questions that I will ask her and that she is always afraid to say the wrong thing. On the other hand I am so disappointed and hurt that she wouldn't tell me the whole story. At this point she is asking me for a break, to stop asking her questions and mentioning what happened for a couple of days. I will try. I think we both need a rest.

At this point this thing is obviously impacting my work - it's in my head pretty much all the time. At work I think about this a lot, contribute to this forum, send emails to my wife and talk to her on the phone. I have a strong need to communicate and express those feelings. At night as soon as the lights are turned off, images of the affair come to my head and make falling asleep very difficult. My emotions are a mix of dispair, anger, love for her, and a hope that in some way our mariage can get stronger out of this.

I think that at some point I/we will need to see a counselor, I just don't know if I can manage all these emotions and live a happy life based on my sole insights. What makes me hopeful is that my wife and I want things to work out and want to get over this. I think that we both realize that it's going to be very difficult. Hopefully with time and with a relationship that will improve we will be able to move on.

Astrix,

Again all very normal. You might consider having your W tell you everything about the timeline anyway. This way you can brace yourself for the information she has, and you don't have to deal with finding out on your own. Avoiding the shock of piecing it together.

As for the counseling. Most will recommend it, and I believe over all it would be helpful. I on the otherhand had a bad experience. So finding the right couselor is key.

Our couselor told my W not to inform me of the A. She also told my W she was done with the M and to move on. I sent her an Email telling her how and why her methods where pathetic. As expected I received no response.

I think I know everything about the timeline right now but as we discussed over the last couple of days I don't think that it will be healthy to get into too many other details. I think that part of me was hoping that this was purely 'physical' and spur of the moment kind of thing, knowing about the couple of weeks that led to it uncovered an 'emotional' and romantic element that I was hoping wouldn't be there. This being said she tells me that she didn't and doesn't 'love' him, i.e. the way she loves me. But obviously he was a good friend of hers so 'love' feelings were involved - 'love' is such a broad term that I probably shouldn't get into the details of its meaning.

I think that I will eventually try the counselor thing. Although I sure don't want to have a counselor that convinces my wife to leave me - that's crazy! I would like to have someone that helps me sort out my emotions to help me go through the day. Right now I have little control over those emotions and it affects me in a lot of ways. The tough part is also that I not only have to manage my emotions but I also feel responsible for managing hers. I don't want to hurt her or stress her because then it drives us apart and it takes a huge amount of effort and restraint on my part to rebuild some warmth.

Ya I remember all that. I got the "I love you as the father of my children" but not in love with you speech.

My wife told me it was mostly and EA, and the SF was a biproduct of that connection. Luckily she got to see the OM's true colors before I found out. When she told him she was returning to her M. She avoided him. He got jealous she dropped him, then he decided I should know the truth. Like he gave a crap about me! He was just taking revenge on her.

So when I ask her months later if she thinks about OM. She would say "I would love for him to see us together" Just so he knows his plan didn't work.

Anyway, enough thread jacking on my part for one day.

Maybe you can try IC. That will give you an idea of the type of couselor you would be dealing with if it gets to MC. Also help you work on your issues?