Astrix,

Yes you will be paranoid. Atleast I was, and sometimes still am.

Recently I had to go to the cable company to rebuild a phone log for tax purposes. It's almost 2 years later, and I am still concerned about what I might find? There is no reason for this. I can account for her where abouts 24/7. She works at home, we have a 5yo DD. I have virtually no reason to suspect anything. None the less these thoughts creep into your head.

I guess it's a new defense mechanism for ensuring there will be no relaps.

Maril,


I don't thinks it a male/female thing. I feel it's depends on the indiviual.

My W and I were both BS. I had an A 10 years ago. Hers 2 years ago.

I felt horrible, and hide the A for years until I just couldn't take it any longer. I made no excusses. It was my mistake, and mine only. Yes, there were issues in our M that lead to it, but 100% my choice.

D-day 2 years ago (my W's A) she blamed me for it, and took no responsibility for her actions. It was MY fault.

Now 2 years later. She shows me affection, is very tuned in to "US", but is still unable to say the ILY's. That hurts, and has really slowed our recovery.

Anyway, enough threadjacking for one day "Sorry Astrix" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

JKT - Did the fact that you had an A before help you cope with your W's A? In other words did you already have an understanding of the mechanics that lead to the A, etc. that made it easier to get a bit more perspective on what was going on with your W? Did your A make you less likely to 'judge' her? Did she ever use your A an an excuse for hers?

Note that I am not saying that one should have an A to help them deal with their spouse's betrayal.

Sorry for making statements. I meant to say typically.

asterix,
did you think to do something for yourself? Going to the gym or target shooting <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />, etc. I think alot what we are going through has to do with our pride and improving yourself helps building the self-esteem. I lost almost 20 'baby' pounds I was strugling with for 3 years after my daugter was born and I look better then anytime in the last few years. It helped alot. I understand that everyone is different but worth trying. Also you don't want your wife only to be sorry for you. You want her to be interested in you. I went to the beauty salon the day I found out about the A. Of course I cried all the time there but I felt my existance. Also we went to Las Vegas two month after DDay and I tried to look my best (for myself not my WH)- it was so hard to do since he was planning to go there with OW, you can imagine what I felt every second there. We always went everywhere together but I was so affraid to flight and he wanted to go to the CES (electronic show) for a few years. So this year I finally said - fine, go by yourself and right after that the A started. Anyway I know he liked the attention I was getting and started relize that he could loose me and someday I would be fine without him - jealousy sometimes is a good thing <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />.(Actually I am sure I would be over the whole thing by now if I left him. But I keep trying).

asterix,
I also had an A right after we were married. I can explain every reason why I didn't and don't feel guilty - the circumstances of our marriage were very different. I feel sorry that it happened but not guilty. I will tell my story some other time. What makes it harder is that I remember that when you have an A you don't really think about your other half. BS does not exist at that time and it drives me crazy. But also ask me today about the OM and I will not remember him. He is nothing to me. No feelings, no memories, nothing. But I remember that I liked him at the time and I think how my husband enjoyed having sex with other person, just because she is new and it was exciting. You will feel better soon but try to love yourself too.

Maril - I haven't done much along those lines yet other than take on an officer role in a local professional association. That's something I was already thinking about doing before knowing about the A and I felt that it would get me out of the house, extend my social network, and distract me a bit from my daily nightmare.

Interestingly enough I have indeed noticed that I try to 'show off' to my W more than before (in the things that I do, in what I wear, in my behavior around others, etc). I think that part of it is motivated by a need for attention and part of it to rub her nose in what she could have lost. At first I thought that the behavior was a bit childish but now I realize that it’s probably a very normal reaction to what happened. Joining a gym is a very good idea – I will consider that. I have also found myself trying to make her jealous but I am not sure if it’s having much effect on her right now.

Astrix,



Help me cope.. No, not at all
Understand the dynamics.. Yes
The best thing finding out about her A did for me, was show me just how much it hurts. This will never happen again.


There were positives, and negatives to this.

I have to start with the negatives:

She found out about my A when I admitted the A to her years after the fact. Turns out, the reason she was asking, she was involved in an A herself. During the few months she knew about my A, that I knew nothing of hers. She blamed the failure of our M solely on me, and my actions. I accepted that, and agreed our failure was my fault.

Fast forward a few months. We have decided to work things out, and remain M. Her jilted BF calls to inform me of their fling. Why? He was hurt, she would not speak with him, she avoided him at all cost, and now he wanted revenge.

So everything has changed. I am no longer the sole reason for our M failure "I preferred it when I was". And all this time she has been was looking, and speaking down to me with blame, and fault while she is ACTIVELY doing the same thing!

Needless to say, I was left with a boat load of resentment for the way she treated during that time frame. She was also upset because the way I treated her changed after that phone call. Obviously she liked the change she saw in me when I had all this guilt.

The Positive: We were no longer living a lie. It was all on the table. The playing field was leveled. We could begin to fix all our faults.

I honestly believe it would have been easier if the blame rested solely on my shoulders. It would have been easier for me not to have known. But at some point I'm sure if what she had done were not revield, it would have slowed or stopped recovery down the road.

Or God Forbid finding out months or years into recovery. That would have brought us back to D-Day #2, and ground zero.

Just a side note here:

Her IC told her not to tell me about the A.
Her IC told her to file for D.

Her IC, became our MC. Until I found out about the recommendations above.

Lesson learned: Get the right MC, or it will be a negative experience, and waste of money.

JKT - interesting developments indeed. I can understand your resentment in being treated badly and judged for what you did when your W was doing the exact same thing. I guess that she didn't follow the "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone"...

The call with the BF must have also been quite an experience. It was different in my case (I called the OM's W) but I was shaking on the phone and it was by far one of the most uncomfortable calls I have had to make. I think that those are calls that one can never forget as they are truly life changing.

I am happy for you that all the issues are on the table now - it's hard to see how one could have a successful recovery without starting on such solid grounds.

Maril,



Judging from these comments I assume you are not having much success with recovery?

Astrix,

Yes we have been together for 20 years now.

When I look back to the time period "weeks to months" post D-day (where you are now) I would say we were 95% doomed to fail. I saw no chance of recovery. Early on the only yhing that held it together were the kids. If it wasn't for our concerns of there future there was no "US". We both wanted out.

Today, speaking for myself, and hopefully my W I see no reason short of another A that would separate us.

Isn't this amazing! I actually always thought that the fact that I had an A will protect me from suffering in case it happens. I saw this so much in my earlier years, I did not really believe people could be faithul. My friend husband died when he was 30 and it turned out that he had OW for a few years while she believed she is lucky to be with him. I remember jocking that you have to cheat first just in case (I ws 25 then) and I remember her telling me that I am right. Now my own life proved that I was wrong. What I am feeling now is absolutely unbelivable. I forgot to mention that I told my husband about my A 16 years ago when his A happened so I would not feel so humiliated. It helps, but so little.

It is a difficult afternoon for me again. I am constantly haunted by thoughts of them together, part of me still in shock that my W could go through with something like this. Still today it seems so out of character as if I was talking about a stranger. I am starting to wonder if I ever really knew her or knew what she was capable of. In a way I am surprised to see myself at this stage now but I guess that I will regress, albeit temporarily, from time to time.

At this point I need her to over-compensate for the A with affection, SF, and attention for me. I literally want her to smother me. It seems that anything short of that triggers feelings of jealousy in me, sadness, and anger. SF is a dangerous area. I find myself wanting to be with her in that way, as much if not more than before. I have to say that she has made a big effort in that department, really showing a noticeable difference between pre- and post-D-Day, and getting a lot closer to meeting my EN. But when she says no it really hurts me and I feel jealousy and anger ‘why would she do it with him 3 days in a row and not with me?’, ‘why would she fool around with him and not with me?’, etc (but note that I don’t say those things to her). I will feel so rejected and insecure and the most negative thoughts invade my mind. That obviously shows up in my body language and in my mood right away to the point that she wonders what will happen when she says no. Those feelings generate so much anxiety in me that I will not be able to fall asleep for several hours and I will often have to get up to walk it off. All this creates a very tense atmosphere around SF that is obviously not conducive to more or better intimacy. I wish that I could control that more but the emotions are so intense that they often just carry me away. I think that she really feels that she is walking on egg shells around me, that the wrong comment or the wrong move will set me off. She is not completely wrong because I do indeed feel hyper-sensitive to everything she does and says but I do recognize these things and I try to manage as best as I can. Any recommendations along those lines?

This is why it is called a roller-coaster. What you are going through is entirely normal. Unfortunately that does not make it any easier to deal with. I can relate to everything you are saying.

My only advice is to continue to vent here and post and listen to the suggestions of those wiser than me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You are not alone.

I physically feel your pain. First two month were terrible. Now it is still very-very dificuilt to the point that I want to pack at least once a day but it does not hurt to the point that you don't want to live. My problem was simular to yours - I could not be quite, I had to talk about it all the time. Re SF - this is probably not the first thing on her mind. Think about the days when you are depressed - I bet you don't think in this direction. Though to me it was the time when I could forget the reality. I think it has something to do not with the pleasure but the feeling of being close to your partner. Funny, I think in the first few weeks we had more S that in the last couple years which according to my husband led to his A. I used to have small drink right before going to bed and even took Xanax couple of times as the last resort. I new that if I will still complaining I will become anoying person. Also, try to make a time line. Think: I'll try to makeit till Easter, then Memorial day, etc. I was trying to make it through Xmas and New Year, then our trip to Las Vegas. Also, I don't know what state are you in. We are on the East Coast and I always feel depressed during the winter. I really hope that warm weather and sunshine will help. BTW I started smoking after 7 years brake and I spend alot of time (and money) doing this. I don't say it helps much but it keeps you busy. Another thing force yourself to watch or read something funny - you would be amaized how much this help. I recommend Funniest Home Video, Bob Marley or simular, well you know your taste better. Again, sorry for my poor English - no time for spell check.

Astrix,

Something a was going to tell you earlier you may want to consider.

Don't spend too much time on this site. As much as it has helped me. It did have a negative aspect in that it kept me focused on the pain.

I found I need to take breaks.

Now I only check-in on the threads I am active with or following, and keep it short. I used to spend hours a day here.

Anyway, Times up! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

As I have already said before trust is a real issue right now and it will probably be so for quite some time. Even though I want to believe what she tells me about the A and the events (it’s over, I never loved him, I never thought about leaving you, etc.) I keep thinking that there is more to the story and that there is something she is not telling me. This is probably why I keep asking the same questions over and over to test the answers. Over the last couple of weeks I have been thinking about ‘entrapping’ her. I created an email address that very closely resembles that of the OM. Knowing my W I really don’t think that she would see the difference. So far I haven’t done anything with it but a couple of times I have thought about writing an email to her on behalf of the OM. I don’t exactly know what I would say in that email but it would probably be along the lines of: “What did this affair mean to you?”, “Why do you think that you wanted to get involved with me?”, “Do you think that we could end up together now that I am separated from my W?”, etc. I realize that I am playing with fire here and it’s probably why I haven’t sent the email yet. My W has been in NC with the OM for about 4 months now and it has been 7 months since their PA. Apparently they never talked about the A after it happened and never discussed their feelings for each other – so this email could also seem out of character. Part of me thinks that it’s better to leave things as they are (let sleeping dogs lie), but part of me thinks that this would probably be the only way for me to really know how she felt at the time and how she feels now – as I am still suspicious that she may be lying to me. I feel that ‘entrapping’ my W is the wrong thing to do if my true goal is recovery – but the lack of trust is such that I wonder if these means are not justified. What do you all think about this?

asterix

Hey man, I don't comment here too often but I really thought I might be able to help. I've read your entire story, and my story has some very interestingly similar aspects.

First off, I'll make mine real short. My wifes A was 14yrs ago and we're still hangin on <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Now, having read your story, I'd like to request you do something, then I'll explain.

"YOU HAVE A GOOD ONE"

Now stop, take a deep breath, CLEAR your mind, and repeat the above (in quotes) three times!!

Buddy let me tell you, 14yrs ago I'd have given my left *** to have my wife do, and say the things you've said YOURS does. Truly, the similarities between my reactions and yours are staggering, there's also a measure of similarity between my wife's reactions and your's. However, the approach you describe your wife taking is different in MANY POSITIVE ways, ways that have me believing many of the troubles in my marriages recovery could have been avoided, had my wife done them. Most importantly is your wifes communication... she's doing real good, REAL good.

Dude, you have a good one... stop and realize (from your own postings) that she IS doing and saying the RIGHT things. Your insecurities aren't going to evaporate any time soon, but they WILL lessen, and eventually disappear. As will the hate, rage, anger, sadness, depression etc etc. The roller-coaster will eventually level out. Hey, this is part of the game, and the game takes time, simple. Ya just gotta do it.

Realize that human nature keeps us from throwing ourselves into a lion's den... consider yourself the lion for a moment. >>MAYBE<< your wife IS hiding certain details? Let's take a differen't angle: >>IF<< she were acting differently, sure, it would be an issue. >>IF<< she were not already open an honest, you'd have reason to worry. >>IF<< perhaps, she is witholding facts, could it be see something your not considering? Is she witholding to PROTECT YOU, and your marriage, your kids, and (you guessed it) herself? Are the >>possible<< facts being withheld insignificant enough they aren't worth a lion's bite? I'll just take a flying leap and guess that your thought process is, that she's not telling all due to selfish reason's... hmmm? Ya, well that's the little red devil on your shoulder 90% of the time. Give the little white angel on the other side a chance more often and your begin to find some peace with this. You are DEEP in the analysis phase, the one the red devil just LOVES to screw with you about. Stopit!

Keep up the good work man, you guys will get through this. LET your wife help you, it's awfully apparent she's eager and willing.

Last note, if you haven't, do this. Every so often when you find your about to repeat the same questions to your wife for the 800th time, DON'T!! Stick'em in your pocket, go somewhere secluded and get mad. MAD I say! Yell at a tree! Kick a rock! Beat a bush! Jump in a lake... whatever. Just let it out. Then get your composure, go back and play kissypoo with your darling wife. Trust me, it feels GOOD to win (bushes don't fight back)!

M.

Mikkalll - Thanks for the encouragement – I need it. It was still a difficult weekend for me but I had a few good moments. My W was working on Sat. to I decided to take the kids out for a whole day of fun activities – they really enjoyed it. During the day my W called me from work – right before her call I had a few triggers and as a result I monopolized the call by asking her a bunch of detailed questions about the A – she responded to my questions until she had to go. At the end of the day I went with the kids to see her at work and brought dinner. She appreciated the visit and the food. But I wasn’t feeling well – I was very suspicious and I guess that I was looking at her funny and acting funny. She tried her best to be pleasant with me, was smiling, and gave me a nice hug. On Sun. we went to church together and then I took the whole family out to lunch. We went shopping afterwards and then we played a bunch of board games at home with the kids – we had some good moments with the kids and my W. really enjoyed the day.

For me it’s still difficult, I feel that I have a lump in my throat all the time and being pleasant requires a focused effort, it just doesn’t come naturally anymore. I just have this deep sadness within me at all times and it’s really hard to detach myself from it to have a normal or fun day. I have a really hard time concentrating at work and I feel that I haven’t been productive at all since D-Day. Yesterday, even when we were talking to our neighbor outside I started getting suspicious and wondering if my W could have an A with him. I really get paranoid about those things and if my W looks at a man I get very jealous.

This morning we talked in bed, more questions about the A and the timeline of the events. For some reason I feel that I need a complete understanding of the course of events, of their last contact, of what was said or what was emailed. I feel that she tries her best to answer my questions as honestly as she can but I also feel that she doesn’t ‘volunteer’ information. It’s only if I ask that I will get an answer. And in a way that’s what forces me to keep asking questions. She really doesn’t want to talk about the events anymore, she says that when we talk about it she is forced to think about them again and it reminds her how much of a ‘worthless person’ she is. She says that she wants to focus on the present/future, and that she wants to focus on us and our recovery.

I do need to read stories of successful recoveries to make me believe that this is indeed possible. How do people live the rest of their lives with the memory of the A and betrayal? How does the marriage change? Can it indeed be better and more fulfilling than before? I just want to make sure that my hopes are not unrealistic.

Normally I'm very pro-MC. Can be very helpful when communications are blocked. But MC can also be a bit risky. My fear would be that a counselor may want to rock the boat a bit just to keep the fees coming in.

IMHO, since things are going the right direction and you are communicating well, maybe take it easy on the MC route. Can't believe I'm saying that, normally I'm very pro-MC. But I think your situation shows promise, and I have some fears of rocking the boat via MC.

Good luck and God Bless your marriage Asterix.

I have read before, and I think that it was in the book ‘Surviving an Affair’, that you should seek MC when you are ‘stuck’. I think that I have three reasons to seek MC at this point:

1) Everyone tells me that it’s the right thing to do. When I told my best friend about the A, it told me that we needed MC. The first response to my post on this web site was that I needed to focus on getting MC ASAP. At one point I was even worrying that any delay in getting MC would ruin my chances of saving my marriage (see earlier posts). So I definitely felt that there was a sense of urgency there and that our recovery efforts would be doomed to fail without it.

2) My W thinks that we are ‘stuck’ and spinning our wheels right now. This primarily because I have been asking the same questions over and over and perseverating about details for one month. She thinks that my questions are no longer useful in helping us move on. So while she was at first opposed to MC because she felt too embarrassed to talk about these problems in front of a stranger, she is now pro-MC in the hope that it will structure our conversations and enable us to make some progress.

3) Maybe we need some help and facilitation in putting all the issues on the table. First, what led to the A? We both agree that our relationship wasn’t perfect at the time and that there are things that we will need to improve there (meeting ENs, avoiding LBs, rule of time, rule of honesty). But there had to be more there as I assume that no all ‘imperfect’ relationships lead to A (in which case I would assume that 100% of marriages would be affected). What led her to make that decision? Why did she temporarily lose perspective on our marriage, family, and possibly her future to let this happen? What made her violate her ‘boundaries’ and her value system? Does she recognize the mechanics and chain of events that led to it? What is HER plan to prevent this from happening again? I am hoping that the MC can help her clarify those things so that her plan and cognitive skills in recognizing other enablers will be improved.