asterix if you like, the system allows you to ignore a user. Click on the user's name, then click the 'ignore this user' button. Easy.

Well I am proud of myself for last night. My goal was to give her a pleasant evening and I was able to do so. I was able to avoid the topic of the A, not ask any questions, and give her a lot of affection. She responded very well to that and told me that she really needed me to hold her. She cried a few times telling me how bad she was feeling and how sorry she was for what happened - she was letting some of her emotions out without being prompted. I told her several times that I loved her, that things would work out, and that I was committed to our recovery. She seemed very encouraged by those words. She told me that she didn't think she deserved my love after what she did but she thanked me for saying those things and told me that she loved me too and wanted to spend the rest of her life with me. She also told me that she wanted to be a good wife to me, like she was in the past - and that I wouldn't be disappointed if I decided to spend the rest of my life with her.

The warmth that we had last night was not only pleasant for her but for me as well. It gave me hope and made me feel very good. This morning I feel calmer. I am hoping that those good moments between us will become more frequent and will eventually replace the arguments, resentment, and anxieties related to the A.

weneedhelp - thanks, I have taken your advice and ignored that user.

Astrix,

Thats awesome! Exactly what is needed for you both. The more that happens, the easier letting go of the past becomes, changing your focus toward the present, and future.

It's those small steps that add up to recovery.

Yes I think that this reprieve from talking about the A did us some good. I had my W on the phone this morning and she told me that as a result she had a number of positive thoughts today about our future together, definitely glimpses of hope for her as well who has been thinking that her life was forever ruined and that I wouldn’t want to live with her. It is a bit amazing to see the positive effect that a little affection, a little warmth, and mainly not talking about the A for a few hours can have in this phase of our recovery.

She knows that we still need to talk about the A and still have a lot of issues to resolve around it, but she wants to be able to spend some time with me without the A being our only topic of conversation. It seems that the SAA book and several articles recommend that as well. She also wants our discussions about the A to be more constructive, possibly under the guidance of a counselor (first session in less than 2 weeks).

Talking about the A makes her very nervous because she never knows how I am going to interpret a statement that she makes and what will set me off. It’s also obviously a very unpleasant topic for her, one that constantly reminds her of her shame, guilt, and worthlessness. When she gets a phone call from me she never knows if it’s just to say hello or if I am going to call her a liar because of what I heard from the OM’s W or someone else. When we do an activity together she never knows if it’s going to be pleasant or if I am going to corner her with waves of questions. An instance of that was last Sunday. I told her that I was interested in going to church with her in the morning, she was looking forward to us doing that together. After mass, on the way back home, I felt compelled to park the car in the neighborhood, a block from the house, and started asking her a bunch of questions for half an hour. In a way I spoiled what could have been a simple and nice moment together. I really see it as a challenge to avoid the topic of the A – it seems to be the only thing I think about all day, I feel literally obsessed with it – all day I brew questions and what-if scenarios in my mind and when I am with her I want answers, either confirmation or corrections on the assumptions and scenarios that I constructed in my head. Not only for her but also for my own sake and sanity I really have to stop doing that. I am going to make myself sick and it really doesn’t seem to help with anything – it’s basically destructive.

My dream is to rebuild our marriage and for us to be happy again together. I want to be her friend, her confident, her lover, and the father of her children. She tells me that she wants all those things to and that she misses the complicity and closeness that we used to have. At this point and as a first step, I think that rebuilding our friendship will really require that I give her a break on the topic of the A, maybe keeping those discussions for the sessions with the counselor. At this time I see her being completely overwhelmed with the topic – from our continuous conversations about it to the emails that I send her and the phone calls that I make – it’s just too much for her right now.

How do you all get through this phase? How did you prevent the A from being your only topic of conversation and your constant companion? Part of me also wonders if I am going to go too fast here – is it too early to manage the volume of conversations on this topic? But I have been literally talking about it EVERY DAY for almost a month now. And I see my wife just running out of steam on the topic.

Maybe its time to fine a better way to address the Q and A sessions.

In the guidance of the MC, is great. She will know, and be prepared for it. Unlike the 1.5 hour Right Hook to the jaw she received Sunday without warning. (Again, please don't feel I'm faulting you.) Just trying to help you avoid.

Maybe write them down, ASK her to sit down with you for some Q+A. Again, allowing her to expect it.

I'm sure you both felt like the 100lb sack was lifted, the huge sigh of relief during that short moment of "just caring about each other" without the stress.

Good on ya.

At this point I would like to be able to avoid any questions before the first session with the MC (10 days to go). I think that it may still be a too ambitious a goal at this point but it doesn't hurt to try. Anyway as far as the questions are concerned I don't seem to be really uncovering anything new or of significance and therefore they usually do more harm (stress/anxiety) than good (new information/better understanding). We will see how far I can get.

That 100lb sack was indeed briefly lifted but this afternoon I was sitting in a boring meeting and the thoughts of them together came back and made me noxious. Quite a ride!

I just had a chat with my W on the phone. As I said in the previous post I really felt like crap this afternoon and felt that I needed to talk to her about it, not to vent or to blame her or to ask questions, but basically just to talk to my life companion about my feelings and be comforted.

She was really nice. She says that she doesn't have a problem talking about my feelings and helping me through that. Actually I hope that she will feel comfortable talking to me about her feelings too. The thing she needs a break from is to talk about the how, what, when, why of the A itself. She actually thanked me for being considerate of that and for helping her define the boundaries of what she felt comfortable talking about and what she wanted a break from. After talking with her I felt better.

She did say something that worries me though. She said 'I will probably never be fine, but hopefully I will be ok'. The shame and guilt of what happened really took its toll on her and she realizes the impact that it has had on her life and on her future. For months now she has believed that she had ruined her life and that I wouldn't want to be with her when I found out. In a way she has been grieving our marriage for months without much hope for recovery (thinking that I would throw her out as soon as I found out). Admitting the A was definitely a very brave step for her and I completely recognize the woman that I married in this honesty and desire to do the right thing. Now seeing that I am willing to work things out and hearing that I am committed to our recovery is giving her the first signs of hope in months but I think that she is still numb and overwhelmed from the burden of anxiety and self-hate that she has carried since the A and is still carrying. When I hear that I do realize that she will need as much help as I do, if not more, in getting over this.

Perfect! This is exactly what will help you both cope, and I believe you will find it helps work toward closure much better than the Q+A. This is something that will benefit you both.



Alot of her feeling are going to be a direct result of the pain she see's you dealing with. As time passes, and you strenghten your bond her guilt will also lighten.

As much as she reassures you of her love, and acknowledges her mistake, you must reassure her you are in it for the long haul. That you will both survive this, and use this experience as a tool to make you M stronger. The silver lining of this whole nightmare.

Last night and this morning were tough - I am feeling a lot of anxiety, stress, and sadness. Just rehashing what I know of the events in my head. I literally had to do breathing exercises in the car on the way to work to release some of the tension in my chest.

When I got to work this morning she gave me a call, she was very nice, and asked me how I was doing. I was just thinking that since she admitted the A our volume of communications has really sky-rocketed – we rarely used to speak to each other during business hours before that. Not that the topics have been pleasant, actually most of the time it was to talk about the A, but over the last couple of days I have seen a positive change. I hope that, as I said before, we can keep the ‘quantity’ while improving the ‘quality’ or content of our conversations over time.

This morning she kept telling me how sorry she was for what happened, that she loves me, and that she has hope for our future. She keeps saying that she is starting to understand the process that led to the affair, that she has learned her lesson and that she will never let that happen again. She says that she is so angry at herself for letting it happen. She says that it was been a terrible experience for her and that she would rather die than go through this again. She says that she is so thankful that I decided to keep her in my life, she promises that I won’t be disappointed and that she will work very hard to be the wife and mother that she wants to be. She understands that I have a hard time trusting such statements and she admits that only time will tell. For me at this point, it is just hard to believe what she says after such a betrayal. I keep asking myself why someone who supposedly ‘loves’ you would do such a thing. I keep wondering what her true intentions are.

She is obviously very stressed herself and absolutely exhausted by the process. Since she admitted the A she has obviously had to rehash a lot of its details and it has been difficult for her. She is also having a hard time concentrating at work. In an A like this one, I wonder who will have an easier time moving on, is it the BS or the WS? Are the two correlated? Does one depend on the other?

It's great you recognize that asterix. It's hard to give the help she needs when you've been hurt yourself, but that's what you have to do. Give it all up to her. Make her feel totally loved - so loved that she can't have any remaining questions about your love for her.

If you can do that, it will also help you to think less about your own pain. Loving your wife will make you feel better as well.

I'm not a big expert, but I'm guessing that the reason some marriages in this situation end up in D is because sometimes the BS isn't capable of giving the WS the love she needs. The situation can, over time, become a learning growing experience - but not every person has the capacity to make that happen. I'm sure you have that capacity, and can turn your marriage into a deeper more loving M that will last for decades. Hang in there and love your wife asterix.

Well I think that I basically have three options right now: 1) I re-invest in my marriage, we both learn from what happened and we both work towards a stronger and more fulfilling marriage, 2) I throw her out and we get separated/divorced, 3) we stay together and I make her life, mine, and that of my kids miserable by staying stuck in the pain and anger of the A – I never forgive her and I focus on torturing her (and me) for the rest of her life.

I have chosen (1). After the A she was convinced that I would have chosen (2) but she is extremely thankful that I chose (1), which is also what she wants. In my view (3) is not a viable option as it would either lead to (2) or to a life of misery – neither of which I want.

(1) will require forgiveness, guided effort, and vision – and it will be fueled by our love for each other and the love for our family. I think that this option will give me the greatest source of happiness and will be the healthiest for my children. It is the option that will give me the most stability and pride if it succeeds. It is the only option that recognizes the value of our life together and attempts to turn a devastating event into s (what JKT called “the silver lining in this nightmare”). I am not saying that (1) will be easy or that I am even capable of doing it but that’s the road that I want to take, that’s a road that gives me hope. I pray that I will have the discipline and character to stay on that road and that my W will prove to be the right companion and will do her part. Time will tell…

Astrix,

Going back to your first few posts in the thread, I see I few things that I am sure you are aware of, but just a reminder.


Who admits to having an A? The spouse who recognizes there mistake, the lie is eating away at them.

Would she ever have voluntarily told you if she had any hopes to continue her A, or had feelings for him? No way...



Yes the toll is heavy, but I'm sure you can see the potential opportunity you have here.

Can you think of anything your W has done to hinder recovery?

I believe it BigKahuna says it best:

"Recovery is not for wimps"

She hasn’t done anything to hinder recovery since D-Day. Obviously there were those times where she didn’t feel comfortable sharing the details of the PA or where she was fed up with my constant questioning or where she felt too embarrassed to go see a counselor but overall I believe that she has been as open and honest as she could be.

At this point I ‘think’ that I have all the details that I need and I feel much less compelled to question her about the specifics of the A, she has also accepted to go see the counselor with me (and actually she seems to think that the MC will help us make progress). At my request she read the book SAA and filled out the EN questionnaire. She has also been very affectionate and patient with me and has done an effort to meet my EN for SF and affection (we share the one for ‘affection’). The one-week vacation we went on with the kids did us some good and enabled us to spend a lot of time together – it wasn’t always easy but there were some enjoyable moments for both of us. We talk a lot, we cry, we hug, we hold each other’s hand. In a way I think that we both realize in our hearts that we could have lost everything and we don’t take each other for granted anymore.

I do have the feeling that we are now slowly entering a different phase of the recovery (or maybe I am), I am just hoping that neither of us will regress. Of course we still need to have our first session with the MC. I am wondering to what extent this will rock the boat and possibly make negative emotions resurface, nevertheless I hope that it will benefit us.

Recovery is indeed not for wimps but my W and I have never been afraid of a challenge before and hopefully this will be another victory for us and for our family.

Asterix,

You asked a question I thought I would address
There are many answers to this, but I am guessing that the one that applies to your situation goes something like this. She loved herself more than she loved you. In short, she was selfish. Oddly, it very likely was not nearly as much about you or even the OM, as it was about her.

It is about the "giver" and "taker" and when they get out of balance really bad decisions can be made. From everything you have said, she normally is a very well balanced person in these matter, but for a period of time she lost perspective. Will she do it again? Oddly I would guess not. She seems to have come to an understanding about what she did even if she does not understand WHY completely. Further, she told you and wanted to rebuild even if she thought the chance was small.

In many ways you are a very lucky man, but knowing that doesn't mean you get much of a short cut.

You also said
You may not realize this, but the fact that you BOTH realize you could lose something very dear is crucial to a good recovery. It reminds me of a true story. A friend of my W's was having trouble with her memory so she went to the Doc. He talked with her, and discussed the situation. He asked her "Do you know you know the name of the person you cannot remember the name of? She answered "Yes." "Do you know that you know the place, or the building you are going to or have been in?" She answered "Yes". He asked a few more questions but then said,

"you don't have a memory problem.YOu are just too busy, have too many things going on." She asked "How do you know?" He responded: "If you had a true memory problem, you would not even recall that you ever knew that persons name, or that you knew that fact, or where you had been. You just need to slow down a bit."

I think the fact that you both recognize what you can lose means the same as this lady KNOWING she knew the name. Her memory was not going, and neither is your marriage. There is a lot there to build on, you two just need to slow down, keep talking and make each other a greater part of the other's life than you have in the past.

They don't call it the "rollercoaster" for nothing Asterix. You will have triggers from time to time that will set you back abit. Expect them, talk about them with your W, and even discuss that you will have them from time to time BEFORE they occur. Oh! and expect that she will have a few triggers as well, and be ready to let them exist and then fade.


Probably will rock the boat abit, but it the counselor is good, you will gain new and better tools to deal with the "sea sickness". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


You got that right, but with your W at your side working with you to rebuild this marriage I think you two are tough enough to do this. Just remember and remind her, you two are a team and when one is down they need to let the other know so that they can take over more of the load for a short time.

Hang in there, I think you two are doing fine.

God Bless,

JL

asterix, I am reading your story for two days now and it makes me cry every time. What I want to say is that you have a very good chance of making it work. It is too late now (3 AM my time) but I want to make my comments as a women. It sound like your wife is really ashamed and sorry (I think women can be ashamed of the affairs, unfortunately not like men). I know personally that if she feels that way she will not remember him very soon. I think you are lucky. I was also surprised that a man could have such a strong emotions. If I would want to describe what I went through it would be exactly your words. I appologise for my broken English, I don't feel like checking and correcting what I am writing.
Cheers! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Triggers are indeed everywhere: movies, ads, songs - it seems that anything related to love, feelings, kissing, or making love is automatically associated with the A in my mind. Yesterday my W and I were sitting on the couch and were watching 'Shrek 2'. Even in this animation movie I got a trigger when the two characters started talking about love. I think that my W sensed the anxiety building within me and she changed the channel. What kind of triggers should I expect for her?


I have seen us do that a few times already in the last four weeks since D-Day. One day (like yesterday afternoon for instance) I will be the hopeful one and I will tell her inspiring things that will give her hope too and it will make her feel better. Then there are moments like last night where I feel that my world is falling apart and I am desperate - at that time she holds me, hugs me, gives me a kiss and tells me that I am going to be ok and that we are going to make it through this. I hope that we can continue to support each other like this.

This morning I have yet another feeling. I have the suspicion that my W may have done some 'protective lying' recently. I have no evidence of this, just a gut feeling. I have the feeling that she is answering my questions in a way that avoids painful discussions (opening a can of worms) - maybe to protect my emotions or maybe just to avoid another exhausting conversation. I have sent her an email about this today - saying that I suspect protective lying and that I expect brutal honesty. Of course maybe I am just being paranoid about all this...I just don't know.

Maril - thank you very much for your encouraging words, they give me hope. Sometimes I do indeed feel 'lucky' although it doesn't seem quite right to call oneself 'lucky' in such circumstances. But I make an effort to count my blessings.

Men do have emotions, strong emotions - I just think that some are better than others at expressing them. For me, using this discussion group and trying to verbalize and articulate my thoughts and emotions has been beneficial.

My W already called me this morning to address my email about 'protective lying'. She elaborated on the couple of points that I raised in my email and it gave me confidence that she was not trying to hide anything from me. She will acknowledge that she doesn't remember all the details of each conversation with the OM but she tells me that she is being honest about what she does remember.

Honesty is however risky as she always wonder how I am going to react to what she tells me. She will say that she is still insecure about my decision to stay with her and that she wonders if one day I just won't tell her that I 'changed my mind'. I told her that she shouldn't try to manage my emotions through her answers, our goal should be brutal honesty. Managing my emotions is my challenge, not hers. I also told her that despite the emotional ups and downs that I am going through, my vision is and remains the same 'commitment to recovery and to a life together'. It's just a rocky road.

It was another good phone call with her. Now I am trying to think about some fun activities we could do with the kids this weekend... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />