asterix.. the never ending sadness is not. Neither any of the other negative feelings. It's not hard to explain, not at all, but it is VERY hard for a recent BS to understand.

Eventually you'll find yourself saying "wow, I haven't thought of the A all DAY". Then days, then weeks... I'll be honest, at 14yrs, I can't say I haven't thought about my wifes A for a whole year, might have though.

By the way... I distinctly remember you saying in an earlier post that your wife did volunteer information. Man, that's a LOT to expect let alone get, your lucky.

M.

Oh, last thing. Here's something that helped me. When a trigger hits, or your sitting around feeling sorry for yourself (sorry, I'm a striaght shooter), go do something nice for her. Pick the one of those moments in which the LAST thing you could possibly justify yourself doing is being good to her.. and go overboard with nice, without expecting ANYTHING in return.

asterix - this could be a page out of my book. Your d-day and mine are only 5 days apart. I just wanted to let you know that I totally feel where you are coming from. I have chosen not to ask detailed questions about the A. I just don't see how it will be helpful. Your wife is doing an amazing job. Appreciate her no matter how hard that may seem.

And definitely NO to the email trap. Do not be misled into thinking anything good can come from deception. Think about that for a moment.

asterix,
I talked to my sister-in-law last night who is a psychiatrist and she said that more then 50% still getting divorce after MC. Intuitively I felt that it may release some unwanted emotions so I did not insist. May be you should try IC? I actually go for therapy sessions once a week now. I can not say that I change much now but in the beginning was very helpful. I started it two month after DDay and I regret I did not go right away. Again, your reaction is EXACTLY like mine (you know there are different types of people and we all act differently). I am 3.5 month ahead of you and I guarantee you will feel much better in a month. Of course I still have very difficult moments (quite alot I admit and every day), but at least I am not paranoid anymore and it does not hurt so much. For me right now the problem is that I want romance myself and expect it from my husband which is not realistic.

Gee those numbers really scare me – of course I understand that it’s crazy to expect any ‘guarantees’ but now more than ever I really feel that my marriage is in jeopardy, and probably the rest of my life as well. I just hope that we can work things out, but most importantly I really hope that “I” can move on by forgiving her and focusing on the present and future without torturing us with the past. My own behavior could very well the biggest risk in this recovery.

The email trap is indeed a bad idea and I won’t do it. Anyway it seems that I would be beating a dead horse right now and it would a lot more harm than good. Another bad idea I had was to have an A myself…I won’t do that either as two wrongs won’t make one right – but it was tempting as a form of revenge.

On the ‘romantic’ side I have to admit that my W is doing very well. She is very affectionate, she seeks to be next to me, to hold me, to cuddle with me, to hug me and the SF is much better now than over the last several months and maybe even years. I hope that it will last and that’s it’s not just her temporarily over-compensating for the A.

I am a bit worried about the MC now. But I guess that I can always give it a chance and see how it goes.

On a positive note - I am sure that in a 10-15-20 years we will all just smile about what happened. Can't wait! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

MC was very helpful for me. It will really depend on who you go to see. Check out the article below...

How to choose a counselor

Rest assured that everything you are thinking and feeling right now is very normal. You are not going crazy, even if it feels like it. Keep reading and posting here. You can make this work - no matter how impossible it may seem at times.

Remember that love is a verb, not a feeling. Don't get too excited when you feel good. And don't get too despondent when you feel down. Both states are just feelings.

You can get through this.

Any tricks or approach to get the thoughts of your W and the OM together out of your mind???

The mind can only focus fully on one thing at a time. So you simply need to give it another activity that takes a lot of concentration. "Where's Waldo", "Kim's Game" or "I Spy" type activities are great. Can you tell I have kids <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Mine sweeper works great too...

In the absence of access to something like that, simply pick an object and study it in great depth. Even the face of your watch will work.

Or remember the last thing you just did, then the thing you did before that, and then before that....see how much of your day you can replay in as much detail as possible.

For extended periods of concentration, I have found rock climbing (outdoors or climbing gym) to be an excellent way to focus my concentration. Martial arts were another good avenue for me. Any exercise should do. I have also used Go and Chess to similar effect.

The hardest is when I'm driving since that requires enough concentration that I can't focus on something else, but not enough that my mind can't wander. So that's when I turn to my ipod, which has a mixture of music and inspirational books on tape.

One of the reasons I chose not to ask in great detail about the A is that I didn't want to have mental images that would be hard to rid myself of.

I know from prior experience that painful memories fade with time. Concentrate on replacing them with positive ones.

I try to imagine myself surrounded by the conditions I intend to produce.

Asterix,

You asked
Yes, I have a few thoughts. First quit asking your W these questions. Show some impulse control and write them down before you ask them, and then question YOURSELF: Do I already know the answer? How will the answer help me if I don't know the answer? Why do I need to know this?

Write down YOUR answers, and then let it sit for a few days. Then pick a time and discuss with your W what you want to know, why you want to know it, and if it is somehow different from what you ALREADY know.

This is your problem. It is not unique, but you are really trying to punish her it seems rather than trying to gain useful information for you. Do you know why I say this? Because it has been suggested to you before that you write the questions down, carry a small note book if necessary, and you have ignored these suggestions and keep posting the same thing over and over. If nothing changes in YOUR behavior and quest for information, then suprise...NOTHING CHANGES.

You are right you are stuck, but you can unstick yourself, but making sure you have a purpose to your questions and then learning from them. It is clear you are doing neither of these things, thus the strong indication that this is your W of punishing your W.

It sure is not helping you to ask and reask, it is not helping her, so the purpose of the questions is?????

Think about this carefully. Oh, and if you want to have a clue as to why she might of had the affair, look at your current behavior. It is not that you are wrong to feel what you feel. It is not that you don't have a right to ask these questions, you surely do. It is that you are focusing on the wrong things. Do you suppose that happened before her A as well? Think about it.

You are not far out on all of this Asterix, but you are not helping yourself, and in fact you are hurting yourself (which is why I have chimed in with the proverbial 2x4), and you are hurting your W and your chances of being happy with her in the future.

Please think about these things.

God Bless,

JL

PS: The images will fade with time, but only when you quit obsessing about all of this. Your continually asking the same questions leads you to trigger the images. They would be there for sure, but not bringing them to the forefront of your thoughts all of the time will HELP YOU.

You do have a good one. We're all God's children, and we're all flawed. But your WW sounds like a kind loving person who cares deeply about you.

Please take care not to drive her away. Have you apologized to her for your difficulties? Something like "You are a good person and a good wife, and I know it. I'm sorry I'm having such a hard time. Thank you for all you are doing to help me. I know that in time I can get beyond this and we can and will have a better marriage than ever. Please don't give up on me, we can do this together".

I understand your pain. Probably every BS on the board does. It's incredibly difficult, maybe the hardest thing you'll ever do. Even months later I still cry unexpectedly. But it's getting better. I think you can and will get past this. With her help and God's you can do it. God Bless.

First I want to say that I have tried and I am still trying to control my impulses – some days I am more successful than others – but I do understand that making the A the one and only topic of our conversations is detrimental to her comfort level with me and therefore to our recovery. I have tried several different approaches to contain my questions, summarize my understanding, and prevent asking the same things over and over. Once again, it’s not for lack of trying. I think that one of the underlying problems is trust. How can I trust the answers she is giving me? Does she even understand her own emotions and feelings? When I ask her if she understands what led to the affair she will tell me that it’s very complex and cannot really be summarized. She will just tell me that she has learned her lessons and that it will never happen again.

I am even suspicious about the affection that she gives me now. In the timeframe between the A and D-Day, I felt that she was detached, isolated, and depressed. She didn’t seem interested in being close to me or affectionate with me. Then in the last month since D-Day, it’s night and day – she is affectionate, we make love, we talk, she holds my hand, gives me hug, wants me to hold her…It’s a completely different person. This morning I told her that I was wondering why things suddenly changed and I told her that my paranoia had me wonder if she was sincere. She was very hurt by that. Her version is still the same: she was disgusted by what she did, she hated herself because of it, and she thought that if I knew I wouldn’t want to be next to her or touch her. That apparently made it very difficult for her to be close to me or affectionate with me. I also understand that since D-Day my own behavior has changed. I need her to be close to me, I need those hugs and kisses, I need our love making, I have separation anxiety and can’t wait to be with her. So maybe she is responding to my own behavior and needs as well.

I do apologize to her for my behavior and constant questioning; I apologize for splattering my pain all over the place and sharing it with her. I apologize for spoiling our evenings and quality time together by bringing up the A or talking about the darkness of my emotions. She is very understanding and is not mad at me for any of this. She is just reaching a point now where she doesn’t know what to say to help me. Last night, as I was going through another strong anxiety phase, she told me that maybe I should speak to a professional so that I could get some help. It seems that she feels powerless in front of my pain and just doesn’t know what to do or say anymore.

My W suggested that I speak to a priest about what I am currently going through (as I mentioned before she is at a point where she doesn’t know what she can do to help me and she is worried about me). I called the parish this afternoon and I am expecting a call back. Does anyone have experience seeking guidance from a priest in these matters? How has that worked for you? Any recommendations?

Not exactly a priest, but I did do individual counseling for many weeks. And it helped. There was a period when it was more helpful than joint counselling. Joint MC would get angry, or concentrate on little incidents, or go off the track some other way. But with IC I had the opportunity to stay on course and track down the big themes I need to explore.

If you do IC, can I suggest you explore your marriage, and not exclusively her affair? What you want out of your M, what you can do to get it to the place you want it to be...

We also did group MC at a large church. 5 couples, moderated by a church layman. No charge. Very useful for letting off steam and getting great advice, and getting in personal contact with other couples going through similar struggles. If you're interested and happen to live near Chicago let me know, and I'll point you in the right direction for that group. They probably have similar groups elsewhere; probably any of the megachurches around the country these days. Good luck and God Bless.

If I can add a thought; I can see you're really struggling. That's very common. Please do as MB suggests, and work very hard at Plan A and at keeping from hurting her or doing further damage to your M; there is a risk she could be driven away. That would be very sad, as it seems your relationship is fundamentally good.

The priest called me back and saw me yesterday evening. We spoke for over an hour. It was nice to be able to talk to someone about all this and get some encouragement. At the end of our discussion the priest told me that he had a lot of hope for us, he could see that I sincerely loved my wife and that we were both dedicated to solving our marriage problems. He was encouraged by the fact that I not only recognized that my W needed to work on herself but also that WE needed to work together. He motivated me to concentrate on the present and future (serenity prayer) but warned me that it would take time and that I would have to be patient. Reestablishing a friendship, a connection, complicity, and closeness takes a while and has to be approached one day at a time. He was also glad to hear that we were also seeking professional counseling. He gave me hope and I came out of the rectory feeling better than when I went in. When I got home my W wanted to know how things went. I gave her a summary of my conversation – she was obviously moved (in a good way) by some of the things I said. Personally I think that she would also benefit from talking to a priest and getting a more spiritual dimension on this whole thing. Talking to someone would also help her. She is considering it and also trying to make it to confession.

Our evening together was “ok” – we watched our favorite show with the kids, held hands, and cuddled. This morning, I don’t know why but I asked her a couple of questions about the A and the timing of the events. She was not in the mood to talk about this and gave some brief and evasive answers.

Some days, like today, I really feel like I am facing a challenge the size of a mountain. We not only have to recover from the A itself and the destruction that it has caused in trust and honesty, but we also have to deal with all the other problems that we already had before: emotional distance, lack of connection, etc. This morning I really feel overwhelmed by all this and I wonder if I will have the stamina for the journey.

IMO you've got to STOP THAT. You've got to stop the "drive-by" A-questioning! If you've got questions, write them down and put them away for awhile. If they continue to haunt you, and you feel that you MUST have the answers, then let your W know that you want to ask a few questions about the A, then arrange for a time and location to ask them that's comfortable for you both.

This is a good sign! I remember that at some point I realized that I am asking same questions automatically. I felt like I HAVE TO. Then next thing happened and even if I had something on my mind I did not have a desire to say it.

Once I told my husband that I missed him all day and I could see his face lighten up. This is the best proof that he is sincere, not his words. I don't really believe in words. I am sure you can recognize when your wife is saying what she is thinking. So stop killing yourself.

You’re right; no more drive-by questioning. I called her this afternoon and apologized for that. I want her to feel comfortable around me and that’s not the way to go. When I come next to her she never knows if it’s because I want to hug her, tell her something nice, or corner her with a bunch of detailed questions about the A. I will take the advice to heart this time and really make it happen: I will write down my questions and ‘schedule’ a time to discuss those with her – maybe even wait for the counseling sessions to bring them up. I realize that some of my questions are pure impulses; I just feel that I need to ask them right away. If I can stick to writing them down first and then sitting on them for a while, I am sure that the number of questions I “really” want to ask will go down significantly and maybe completely go away over time. I expect that my W’s comfort level around me and the quality of our conversations will significantly improve as a result. I guess that after one month of wild open questioning, it’s time to change the approach.

In her line of work my W has to work a few nights a month. Last night was one of those nights. These are very difficult for me. First I have this crazy suspicion that she may not be at work, so I will call her and talk to her. Hearing the background noise will confirm where she is. Yesterday I called her and ask “Are you at work?”, she said “Of course, where else would I be?”, I said “I don’t know, maybe with someone else”. She then said that if she wanted to be with someone else she wouldn’t be trying to rebuild our marriage and go through what we are going through now. In my heart I know that my current suspicions are not founded but I can’t help those feelings – I am so paranoid. The other problem when she works nights is that I feel so incredibly lonely – I am literally alone with my pain and dark thoughts at night. There is a battle in my head to control my thoughts and prevent myself from drifting into thoughts of their physical relationship and all the deception that surrounded it. It’s literally a war between an invasion of negative thinking and attempts at positive thinking. I keep repeating the serenity prayer to myself for my own sanity. Overall my W is very patient with me, very loving, and very supporting. I just think that she feels powerless in front of my pain. Last night, hearing how sad I was, she was trying to help me develop a strategy for the rest of evening, motivating me to spend some quality time with the kids, watch some TV, maybe journal my emotions on this discussion group, praying, etc. My night was ok: I prayed and watched TV to distract myself until I was so tired I couldn’t keep my eyes open. I woke up very early and called her at work. She was up and talked to me a little bit. She told me that maybe we could cuddle tonight; it’s nice to hear that she wants to be close to me. It has now been a month and a few days since D-Day, I guess that I am doing a little bit better now than I was in the first couple of weeks but I feel that I still have a long way to go. The first counseling session is in a couple of days, I have been looking forward to it.

My husband is on call once a week. This was actually the day when he used to go to OW place. First month after DDay he was coming home at midnight then went back to his normal schedule and it was horrible. I acted like a lunatic and several times drove to the city from the suburb where we live at night just to see if his car was there. Leaving my daughter sleeping alone! I also checked the mileage on his car. Then I started to think that he could take a cab and I actually went through his wallet the day before and after. It is so humiliating for me to feel this way and to do this.
I knew very well that I was acting irrationally but I could not control it. Now I am fine. Last Tuesday I did not have an anxiety at all.
--------------------------
I've read this long time ago:
The psychiatrist has a patient who believes that she swallowed a frog. Not able to reassure her that it is not true the doctor makes her vomit and puts the frog in there.
The woman looks at that and says: 'What if it laid the eggs?'

Does this sound familiar? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Once I left the house for an hour on the weekend while my H was washing his car. When I came back I saw that the mileage was 5 miles higher. I almost fainted. I thought that he drove to the pay phone to call her so I could not check our phone records. I had to ask where did he go and he told me that he drove around the block to warm up the car. Next day the first thing I did was drove the same route to check the mileage. It was exactly 5 miles of course. I felt so embarrassed and angry that I have to go through that. All my live I was proud to be able to compose in any circumstances. Anyway I wrote this so you can see how ridiculous we can be when paranoid. Be patient - you will feel better soon. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />