Maril - yes I want to do that more - I haven't had a great track records along those lines. Mother's day is coming up, that will be an opportunity to shine! She is also coming with me to Europe in a couple of weeks (business for me, pleasure for her) - maybe I could get her something for the trip. Any suggestions?

Quote:

This comes up from time to time with the MC (a guy). Once he said “making love starts in the morning when you say hello”, basically saying that you have to establish an ongoing feeling of love, care, attention, comfort (i.e. mental intimacy) before you can get to ‘physical’ intimacy. My W has also made the comment that the way I want to reconnect is via SF, as if better SF would eventually lead us to be emotionally closer. In her mind, it works the other way around – emotional connection first, SF later. Bottom line I sometimes feel like a pervert, like I am the only one thinking about and needing SF.

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And what do you think about it?

I totally agree with the MC. That's the main difference between man and woman.

We, women, are emotional.

Little gifts, little messages... help with the kids, help in the house, so we are not so tired and most of all, no pressure or this becomes an issue.

My H has a very hight S drive, he's also for the everyday, 3 times a day if possible <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I also have a very high S drive. But not that high.

He relaxes with SF, I need to be relaxed to enjoy SF.
I am much more in the mood in the morning (I am a morning person) he's much more in the mood in the evening.

But once we both realized this, we developed a very "Hot-intimacy-wild S" relationship. (This before the his Affairs, my desire for him and S is pretty low now)

My very woman advise is: (besides the mentioned above)

When you go to bed at night as you hold her, state clearly, that you don't want SF, you just want to cuddle, feel her, be next to her.

Whenever you feel her tired or stressed, ask her to lay down in bed, and massage her till she feels totally relaxed. (get a massage oil preferably) Again, make clear you just and her to relax, not doing it to get SF.

How is it with the kids? 3 and 6 is pretty energy taking. Whenever possible, offer your self to take care of them, as in, fill the bath tub and propose her a long bath while you bath the kids or give them dinner or just play with them.

Make sure you take any chance to compliment her.

She will probably be the one to push you into SF. BUT DONT EXPECT IT AND IT WILL COME. And don't forget, all this takes time.

Don't feel like your forcing anything, just face it has creating a "needed" environment where she feel confortable and really wishing SF.
Woman are just like this.

Be nice and show her you're really working on her well being.

And last, I have to ask, how much foreplay there is?

We had a GREAT sexual life because our main goal was just to please the other. My H is indeed a great lover puts my satisfaction in first place.

About the trip to Europe. What kind of Hotel are you going to stay? Any 5 star should offer this I believe.

Do you think she would enjoy a SPA package for a full day?

And I am sorry for my english as I am not an native english .

Men are emotional too but it’s true that when it comes to SF, we are less “complicated”.

That’s a tough one and quite a vicious circle. With my W it happens with ‘kissing’ and with SF. She will tell me “now that you have made a big deal out of it, I feel pressured, and it makes it ever more difficult for me to do these things”. I feel trapped – I bring up those issues because I am not happy with the way things are and the next thing I know she feels pressured and she wants to do them even less. I feel punished for raising the issues.

The ‘kissing’ is an issue that I raised a number of times as she was just not kissing me anymore. We could make love (rarely), do a number of things to each other, but if I tried to kiss her on her lips she would turn her head. Lately it has gotten a little bit better but I still lack the warmth and intimacy of kissing. After D-Day, I found out that there was apparently a fair amount of kissing going on with the OM. For a period of a few weeks that’s all that they would do (before it led to a full PA for 3 days) – kissing and making out. Knowing that she would willingly do that with him (even though she said that he was a lot more interested in kissing than she was), it made me so incredibly jealous and insecure, reinforcing the question “why would she kiss him and not me?”. Today ‘kissing’ is still one of those ‘pressure’ points.

I feel that this is very similar to our situation. SF indeed relaxes me, makes me feel emotionally closer to her, and makes me feel more ‘secure’. This comfort helps me be more affectionate, more patient, more attentive. On the other hand my W needs to feel the comfort via companionship, friendship, ‘togetherness’, before she will feel ready to have SF. In my view this often results in a deadlock, each of us being unable to focus on simply meeting the other’s ENs (selfish?).

My W definitely isn’t an evening person – by the time she gets to bed she is exhausted and sleep is her priority. As for me, I am much more of a night owl and I get my second wind in the evening, I will want to talk, chat, and obviously have SF. She will want to talk a little sometimes too, cuddle, and fall asleep. The problem is that the evening, when we are in the bedroom, is usually the only time we are together without kids around. This is really the only time to be intimate. Mornings are difficult because my W wants to sleep until that last possible minute before she has to get up (she needs a lot of sleep…) – SF sometimes happens in the morning but it’s rare.

I don’t understand this statement. What did you realize? And how did that help you develop a “hot intimacy – wild S”?

I understand your point. I guess that it feels a bit funny to say that I don’t want SF when in reality I want it. But I see the point in telling her that I am doing those things for her, not “expecting” SF in return. This is a very generous thing to do – I will try but I have to admit that these days it is difficult for me to be generous with her. I still have so much anger and frustration in me at times…

Not much at all, and I miss that. The problem is that in the evening she is pretty tired so even if she is open to SF she doesn’t want it to go on for a long time, and foreplay is where she decides to squeeze time out. If it was up to me, there would be a lot more foreplay.

I love to make love to my W as well and please her. It frustrates me that I only rarely get an opportunity to do so. Even when we make love I feel that my hands are tied, I would love to kiss her, caress her, touch her in so many different ways but she only rarely respond positively to these things. Often she won’t let me kiss her because she says her skin is too sensitive at night or she is too ticklish. She won’t let me kiss her on the lips. She won’t let me touch her in certain places. And SF then usually boils down to basic intercourse. For me, while the ‘physical’ need may still be satisfied like that, I feel that there is an emotional or erotic need that is not satisfied and leaves me hungry for more.

No need to apologize. I am not an native English speaker either…

Asterix,

Reading your latest post reminds me why men don't find "talking" with women all that rewarding. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It sure is confusing. You don't talk to me. If you talk to me about meaningful issues I feel pressured. I won't do things if I feel pressured. I won't do things unless we have an emotional connection. ETC. Ah women! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Just an informational piece of information for a few of the posters. It was stated
Men relax with sex because following climax a hormone is secreted that drops the heart rate. It is one of the reasons men rarely have heart attacks during sex, although the heart rate can be very very high. Anyway this hormone is basically a sedative. That is why men will often go to sleep after sex, and it is why sex relaxes men.

Just a bit of information for the files, perhaps circular files, but files nevertheless.

God Bless,

JL

This is indeed quite frustrating. That’s probably where the expression “damn if you do, damn if you don’t” comes from!

As for the “medical” note, I didn’t know about this hormone but I can confirm that some chemical reaction happens in the body after SF – it is amazing the effect that it can have on the body and on the mind. I have never taken drugs but I assume that the effect could be comparable. Isn’t it the same for women?

I dunno, but it certainly helps relieve stress. Maybe thats why I feel wound like a Titleist?

The hormone is called oxytocin. (Not to be confused with oxycontin!). Oxytocin is basically an emotional bonding hormone that makes you feel closer to your wife.

Interestingly, women in committed relationships have this hormone at about 10 times the level that men do. It's only after sex that the male oxytocin level approximates that of the woman.

I'm in the process of reading 'Eight Secrets of Happily Married Men'. The core of the book is that men and women think, act, and communicate differently - because that's how we're made - and that it's okay. Interestingly, the author is down on most MC because it forces the man onto unfamiliar ground - thinking and talking about his feelings - whereas that's home territory for most women. Still reading.

Have they been able to synthecize this hormone? I would like to get it in the form of pills! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Wikipedia has a good entry on oxytocin.

Interestingly, they have synthesized it under the trade name pitocin...which is one of the things they give pregnant women to induce labor. And IIRC, your FWW is an OBGYN. Odd coincidence.

So here is the question: has anyone every used oxytocin to help with their marital problems?

Quote:

""But once we both realized this, we developed a very "Hot-intimacy-wild S" relationship."
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""I don’t understand this statement. What did you realize? And how did that help you develop a “hot intimacy – wild S”?""
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Sorry I didn't make myself clear.

Well we realized we were not having SF on a regular basis because of this differences.

before we discuss it my H though I was not much into S, and maybe I wasn't... at least not in the evening.

So we both had to give some... we go to the bed room earlier instead of wacthing TV, even if after I fell a sleep my H returns to living room.

We would eventually wake up earlier then the kids... harder to do for him <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
he would help me more with the kids. Instead of both of us read the story he would be the one so I could relax a bit before he returns.

Since we were discussing to understand why and till we found the main reasons, we finally started to openly discussing "S", then fantasies and.... since my H is such a great lover, and he can get so much satisfaction just by pleasuring me, I decided to look on the internet for ways to improve and diverse and surprise him. So we finally found out what a "Hot-intimacy-wild S" relationship is, and how rewarding it can be.

From what you say, your wife might not really know what SF is... Maybe she has "taboos"about it?

I imagine how frustrating this is for you, but please be patient.

I would advice you to take it very slowly but you have to "open" her mind about S.


At the time I found the site www.women.com, VERY useful, they have boards about many, many subjects, familly, kids, health... the section "Sex and romance" is one of them. Now the site belongs to i-village group, not so good, but still MANY articles and very reliable and serious, just type www.women.com.

Or try to get a book to help her understand what she's is missing, and what how is she putting your marriage and happiness at risk.

Also check for her health. Might be a physical problem.

She is not into kissing because for her that means SF, she does not want it and does not want to cause you the frustrations by denying it.
So please, for now, invest, in caring for her clearly stating, and not really expecting SF right now in return.

You have no idea how much a women appreciates a man who can do this. (As a woman I can only imagine how hard it is)
I am sure with time she will be very willing to give you what she knows you want and need. Not only willing but desiring it.

This is you showing her how much you appreciate her and you will arouse her just by doing that.

What about the massages? Just for her to relax... don't you think she would like that?

Just never mention S, just tell her you feel her tired and want her to relax.

It can be the begining for her to feel more confortable with her body and you touching her.


I read a few posts back where a schedule day for SF was considered.

Maybe you can eliminate the "not natural"or not "romantic" factor by making it a very speciall evening each week?

Make it your special night together?
The candles all over, new lights in the room, burning some "Indian" incense, fill the room with flowers, special music, new set of bed sheets, set up an igloo tend over the bed with a small lantern? All that your imagination will lead you.

After same time you'll be both involved and spend the week thinking about what to do for next SF night.
Maybe she will feel the antecipation, almost like getting ready for a date when you were young?

My H complains a lot that where we are living now we seldom have clear sky, we seldom see the starts, so I bough a toy that projects the starts. Set it up and wen he entered the room I was waiting for him <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> He loved it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Small things that make the difference

Well we “once had” a great sex life. It’s only over the last few years that things have really slowed down, became more ‘boring’, more routine – with decreases in both frequency and overall intensity in SF. “taboos?” maybe – I think that it’s fair to say that I am more adventurous and open minded when it comes to SF (must be my European upbringing). I wish that I could do a better job opening up her mind and trying different things but she seems very reluctant (or plain uninterested) and I haven’t been very successful in convincing her.

Yes I do feel that there is a risk as there is an unmet EN that is very important for me. And now that I see this unmet EN in the context of her A, it makes it even more difficult to accept. She knows that this is a problem for me; she knows that I am not satisfied with our sex life, and once she also recognized that “it wasn’t ideal”. I haven’t told her this yet but I feel that this unmet EN makes me vulnerable to have an A myself. I find myself looking at other women differently, fantasizing about what it would be help to be with a woman who would desire me and be passionate with me, I am jealous of others who seem to have fulfilling SF with their spouse, etc.

That’s pretty much all I can do anyway.

The ideas that you suggest regarding the ‘dates’ or how to make even ‘scheduled SF’ more romantic are great. Those ideas really give another dimension to something that could sound very artificial and forced. Thank you. I guess that this is another area where I will have to lead by example because I have little or no expectation that my W would ever come up with any of the things you suggest.

Interesting developments yesterday. My W gets home in the early evening. A couple of hours later as the kids are watching a DVD in the living room, she takes me upstairs and we have SF. Wonderful surprise for me, it was great! We then come back downstairs, we have a great evening, playing board games, interacting, joking around – basically having a nice time as a family. This morning, right before she leaves for work, she seems a bit 'down'. I ask her what's going on she tells me that it concerns her to see how depressed, frustrated, angry, and sad I am when we don't have SF – which is accompanied with some negativity about our chances of successful R. Then we have SF and I am a happy man, with a completely different personality and outlook on our relationship and R (at least for a period of time). Because of these reactions she tells me that she now feels 'pressured to perform SF' as she worries about the consequences of not having SF. And obviously she doesn't like that pressure...

I guess that it's perfectly normal to feel happy when you have SF with the woman that you love. So I am not worried about the positive effects of SF. But I do share her concerns about the negative effects of not having SF. I think that I give it too much meaning, too much weight. Part of it is of course sexual frustration but I also take it as a personal rejection and I think that this 'emotional' hit is a lot more powerful than the 'physical' aspect. I also now always see that rejection in the context of the A, of the SF she had with the OM: “did she ever tell him 'no'?”, “didn't she feel 'pressured' with him?”, “was it more 'spontaneous' with him and more 'forced' with me?”. I feel jealous and incredibly insecure. Those emotions overwhelm me, I am rarely able to manage them, and they significantly affect my behavior and personality until SF happens again. I am really at a loss here, I just don't know how to manage those emotions. I wish that I could just take her 'no' and still remains affectionate, nice, supportive, and positive – which would probably make SF a lot more likely. But instead the 'no' generates so many negative emotions in me that it makes it difficult for her to be around me – and obviously it affects my chances of having SF. Should I get a woman's perspective on this? How do I become better at handling the 'no'? [Hopefully this whole post makes sense]

It makes sense to me and I have the same problem. In fact, my reaction to "no" has been a huge problem for me and my M. I'll be interested to see if anyone has any advice.

Today I am triggering like a mad man. Earlier today I was going over a bunch of digital pictures I took over the period of the PA. I was looking at my W’s face on those pictures, looking into her eyes and thinking that at that time she was betraying me with the OM. She would kiss him at work on those days and then come home as if nothing happened. Then there were the pictures of the last party we all went to, just four days before the hardcore PA, the sex part. My mind has been going over all these things all day today and it’s making me sick to be around my W. I feel like being nasty with her, I feel like making snide remarks to hurt her and bother her. I should get a medal for not yelling at her. Yet I try to remain as civil as I can but she is no fool and she knows that something is wrong. She knows that it’s not a good day for me and I can see that she keeps her distance. Such a shame to waste valuable time on such negative emotions. It could be such a nice day today but I have the burden of the A on my shoulders and it’s preventing me from doing anything.

trigger days suck

it will not always be like this

I promise

How can your wife help you out today?

Pep

Asterix - I think you do deserve a medal. I really don't know how you and other BH's whose W's have had PA's do it. My W "only" had and EA and it drives me crazy. I can't imagine a PA.

About 6 weeks ago I gave W a very nice piece of jewelry for an anniversary present. It's a bracelet that is literally screwed onto her arm - so it's very hard to get on and off - in fact, she hasn't taken it off since then - I went to a lot of trouble to get it - had to call a store in New York and have it FedEx'd - a very nice present -

at the time she promised she wasn't calling OM anymore and I meant it as a sign of starting over etc. on our anniversary - of course, she was still calling him etc. and now that's what I think of when I see that bracelet - the fact that that (*&^% was still calling him - I hate that bracelet now and it's always on her arm - a constant trigger - you do deserve a medal and more.

Pepperband - I hope you're right. I am not sure there is anything they can do. My W doesn't even really try.

Yes I guess that a PA is worse than an EA, but we are only talking about different shades of ‘bad’. Still I wish that I was only dealing with an EA – but at the same time I wonder if my W would have admitted to an EA, she would have probably seen nothing wrong with it and would probably have just considered it a ‘friendship’. Have you demanded NC from your W? What was her response? Also, have you told the OMW about the EA? What did she say? Are you sure that there was no PA in your case? How do you know? In any case I think that it’s literally impossible to start true R unless there is a firm NC.

Hey, sorry to hear you're having a rough day. Triggers will become fewer and farther in between. In the meantime, you just have to weather the storm. Your emotions will batter the heck out of you. Just remember that you are actually doing most of the battering yourself.

Here's a quote: "You can't stop a bird from flying over your head, but you can stop it from making a nest in your hair."

You can't stop a trigger from setting off some negative emotions, but you can decide to purposely shift your thinking and location and activity to another mode. Don't let the feelings nest in your hair.

Hang in there!