Glad to see things are going better <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Take it slowly, really slowly.

That's what I was trying to tell you all along... but I am really bad in english writing.

You nicely accepted that you were not going to have SF that night... she really apreciated it... and in the morning it just came naturaly right?

Just the fact you talked about not having SF triggers her to desire it, speccialy after you understood it.

Take it easy she's full of those kind of srtessful moments... and back home they will continue for a while.

Good for you A!

What she sees is that you are like a pouting child- throwing a fit and getting disrespectful when you don't get your way. That's not adult behavior. I can totally understand about bedtime being stressful for her. In my first M- everytime my husband touched me, he would want SF- never to cuddle etc. So, I grew accustomed to when he touched me, it meant he wanted SF and I would shy away from that touch. Then if he didn't get SF he would pout and continue to beg like a child, please please please. He'd say "You might as well do it- it will take a few minutes and it will be over quicker than me continuing to ask". Well that really turned me on!

This is why women make up headaches when they don't want to!

I'm proud of you A. Now just keep from having those tantrums and you'll be on the road.

We are now back home. I will keep an excellent memory of this business trip and I think that my W will as well. We spent some great quality time together, didn’t discuss the A at all, and we are slowly paving our way back to some level of normalcy. SF was great too. I still faced a number of triggers this week but I was usually able to control them before they did any lasting damage to my mood. Nonetheless, I know that they are always lurking in the background, ready to creep in at any moment. It’s really a mental battle for me to keep them at bay. My W also told me that she senses a lot of sadness in me. She feels that it’s always close to the surface. She is right.

During the trip we had dinner with some old friends. When I was around them I couldn’t help but think about the A, this dirty secret that my W and I share and that nobody else knows about. Would they ever think that we were going through a R? Our friends and relatives would probably never think that such a thing could happen to us. They would probably never think of my W as a ‘cheater’.

It sounds like a terrible thing to say but I sometimes see my W as ‘damaged goods’, and therefore I see my M as ‘damaged goods’. Sometimes I feel that my M is so common now, dirty, almost vulgar. I just thought that we were better than that, that SHE was better than that. It is difficult for me to come to the realization that we are now one of many couples who have experienced an A. It’s not a club that I wanted to be a part of.

Once I heard about the analogy of a ‘hair in the soup’. The A being the hair, the M being the soup. What do we do when there is a hair in our soup? Do we take it out and keep eating (not caring about where the hair came from)? Are we so disgusted by the hair that we push the soup aside right away (D)? Do we keep eating the soup but can’t get the hair out of our mind? Does it depend on the ‘quality’ of the soup? Does it depend on the ‘type’ of hair? Do we keep eating the soup because we are hungry and we think that there is nothing else to eat out there? As for me I have decided to keep eating the soup (stay in the M), I have also decided to find out where the hair came from and do my part to make sure that it doesn’t happen again (personal changes and MC), but I still think about the hair (triggers) and sometimes it makes me gag (sadness, anger, disgust, resentment). Every now and then I will wonder if I should stop eating it (D), I have some ambivalence when it comes to my M and living with my W. Part of me wants to make it work, wants to make her happy, wants to have a fulfilling M with her, and part of me just wants to get out, cut my losses, find someone else, someone who hasn’t betrayed me, someone who will love me more intensely than she does. Sometimes I wonder where this whole thing will end. Sometimes I wonder if I am just staying in this M until I find something better. R is not for the weak.

As you see little Asterix is not out of the woods yet. Still a lot of emotional turmoil but I am winning some battles along the way, this trip was one of them.

Asterix--you are doing GREAT!!

Keep doing what you are doing.

You have come a LONG way since 2/2006. Your feelings are very, very normal. That questioning will fade as time goes on and you continue to be successful in your recovery efforts.

Re: your comments about being w/ friends who don't know what you are going thru...

For the longest time I was totally aware that I was going through an A recovery with my H whenever I was out in public. I felt like I had a huge stamp on my forehead that screamed "HUSBAND HAD AN AFFAIR!". I didn't want to tell people about it, but it was my living breathing existance and I felt like, how can these people not see this huge stamp on my forehead?? It got to where I could not be social for awhile (part of that was a depression I sunk into)

Anyway, congrats on the great weekend, you are really doing so great asterix, just 3 months into recovery.

And you are right...Recovery is definitely not for the weak. Stay strong..
Blessings
Glad

Yes I guess that it could be a lot worse but I don’t feel like I am doing “great”. Actually I think that I am pretty miserable, sad, and quite uncertain about what the future will bring. I try my best to be a good H to my W and a good father to my kids but the thought of the A is constantly in my mind and give a strange taste to everything I do or think. It’s like a big black cloud that just won’t go away. It puts a dark shade on everything, tints everything. Everyday I engage in big mental battles to contain the damage that the triggers could cause, it’s exhausting.

I still check my W’s email system and her cell phone records on a daily basis. While my “logical brain” tells me that the A has been over for a very long time and that there is only a very small probability that she or the OM would break NC, I am still worried that she would still have feelings for him and would seek contact if she could (OM is the one who demanded NC, a few months before D-Day).

Part of me also wonders if the fact of having her first A has completely disgusted her from ever doing this again (“I have learned my lessons, this will never happen again”), or if to the contrary she has discovered something very exciting that maybe some time in the future she will repeat, although this time she wouldn’t tell me so that she wouldn’t have to face the consequences...

Astrerix - I can totally relate to what you say. No matter what you are doing, even if you are doing something fun, the A hangs over it all like a black cloud.

It never totally leaves your mind, does it?

No it never leaves my mind, not a single day since D-Day. And today is bad. I feel so down today. I can’t focus on my work. I keep trying to get my W on the phone, I check her email system, I check her voice mail messages, I aimlessly search the Web for something related to the OM, I read the posts on this site, etc. I am totally consumed by the A today and I can’t seem to get my mind off the topic. For some reason I keep thinking about my W’s relationship with the OM, how she felt after the PA, when she apparently got very upset after he demanded NC, etc – it would be so easy for me to fall back into the vicious circle of questioning but for some reason I seem to have the strength to avoid that. Does she really love me know, is she really in love with me now, is she really over the OM as she says she is, so many questions, so many doubts, so much anxiety. I am so worried about the future of my M, will I be happy in it? Is there really enough ‘good stuff’ left in it to make up for the A? I have so much ambivalence. At times I feel like I love her so much, at other times I just want to hurt her (not physically) and find someone else to share the rest of my life with.

I do all those things and think all those things too - pretty much all the time.

I think the uncertainty may be the worst thing about all of this and I think uncertainty is what makes me do and think like I do.

I am not sure the uncertainty will ever go away.

I find myself thinking the same thing, particularly as she hid her A so well from me that I only discovered what was going on when she told me.

As for me it was a little different. I think that I was always suspicious, even before the PA actually took place. Some kind of subconscious warning system going off, I guess. When you have known someone for a long time, you know when something is different. However the trust that I had in her, probably mixed with some denial, kept me from digging deeper.

After the PA (but before D-Day) I kept sensing that something wasn’t quite right. She was obviously depressed but she would blame it on our recent move away from friends, family, and a familiar work environment, compounded by the challenges of a new job. At the time I was also traveling heavily and I theorized that my absence was to blame as well. Still I felt that she was showing a complete lack of interest in me and I remained suspicious that there was more to the depression than what she was telling me. It is at that time that I started checking her cell phone records and voice mail. I would see a heavy call volume with the OM but she would always tell me that it was to discuss ‘cases’ and other work-related matters. In a way I believe that she wasn’t lying about that since, after the PA, they never discussed what happened or even had a single “romantic” conversation. Still I believe that those long ‘work-related’ chats they would have were still a way for her to keep in touch with him, and maintain the “friendship” through which everything started.

I confronted her number of times about those suspicions but she always denied any wrongdoing. I remember once telling her “With your words you deny, but with your behavior you confess”. It went on for months like this until that dreadful D-Day where after being confronted one last time, she finally confessed. She then told me that she had been trying to build the courage to admit the A, obviously procrastinating as she feared the consequences of what she had done – she was supposedly convinced that I would put an and to our M if I knew. She would tell herself “after the holidays” so that she could have another ‘normal’ Xmas with the family. Still to this day I wonder if she would have told me the truth on her own, if I hadn’t confronted her about my suspicions so many times. I also wonder if she would have told me the truth if the OM hadn’t demanded NC a few months prior to D-Day. I guess that I will never know for sure. At the end of the day, it is her own admission that proved the A. I didn’t have any proof like catching her in the act, letters, emails, photographs, admission of the OM (actually his plan was to take this secret to his grave), or anything like that. So it would have been very easy for her to keep denying the A, provided that she could have continued living with the guilt and the continuous lies.

At this time I believe her when she says that she has learned her lessons and will never do this to me or us ever again. In a way I think that anyone would say that in the aftermath of an A. The trauma is still so fresh. But in the longer term, when a few years have passed, I wonder if she will still feel the same way. Will she be able to ‘resist temptation’ if it comes knocking? I believe that it is an uncertainty with which I will have to live for the rest of my life. This being said, sometimes an equally important question that I ask myself is: will “I” be able to resist temptation if it comes knocking? Will her A teach me a lesson as well or will I see having my own A as sweet revenge?

In my case, I guess in hindsight I can look at some of her behaviour during the A and say yes, there were signs, but I chose to ignore them. And ignore them I did because I trusted her so much and NEVER expected that she'd risk so much and choose to get involved in an A with a co-worker. As expected, the results have been devastating to her as well as to me. She had to eventually give up a job where she was quite respected by her peers (who don't know about the A - I did not expose it to them).



That's almost exactly the same questions that I ask myself these days. Except that I wouldn't see my A as "revenge" per se. If I meet someone that truly catches my fancy and I catch theirs, I think that I might be tempted to find out if a relationship with them might be more fulfilling than the one that I'm currently in. Perhaps a fresh start without all the baggage that an A brings to an M.

I know where both of you are coming from. Not sure I really want someone else right now, but it would be more tempting than it would have.

About the only thing I did differently was I started snooping hard as soon as I got real suspicious. I'll always believe that my W would have had PA too if I hadn't gotten real lucky in my snooping very early. Of course, it could still happen. I think it's over and I think I have NC, but are you ever really sure.

I think it was actually divine intervention in my case that made me snoop (sort of joking, but not totally). W didn't act suspicious or different at all and I am not normally like that. Everything sort of fell into place to at least disrupt it before PA could happen. Otherwise, I know it would have.

I have really felt crappy these last couple of days – it seems that I haven’t been able to put the A out of my mind at all – I am constantly thinking about it – rehashing some of the events, and thinking about my relationship with my W today (more specifically the parts that I am not satisfied with). Obviously it’s affecting my mood, probably my body language, and most definitely my outlook on the future. I am still trying to push those negative thoughts away but I am not always able to do so.

We had another MC session last night but I am wondering if we are not spinning our wheels there also. It seems that we are talking about everything except the A itself, while I know that the A is constantly in the background, at least I know that it’s true for me. Yesterday the bottom line conclusion of the MC was that we needed to improve communications (I guess that it couldn’t hurt but I have to admit that it wasn’t a big revelation for me). According to him we have a hard time discussing the ‘tough topics’ and we prefer to ignore them. He wants to help us communicate better. However he says that open communications in those types of sessions can either go well or go bad, time will tell. At one point my W was also trying to make the point that “we” were still stuck, that the A was still omnipresent in our relationship today and that for instance I was constantly thinking about it. To that the MC says that we should stop talking about the “we” when it relates to the A. Instead we should focus on our own personal story with the A, where we are as individuals today as it relates to the A, and one should be able to move forward even if the other is still stuck on the A. The MC also had the feeling that my W herself was still stuck on the A, she is the one who brought it up during the MC session. I guess that it’s hard not to when the A is this big elephant sitting in the room with us. I just don’t know where all this will take us. This whole A is such a big slap across the face for me, it’s hard to move on.

There is something a little different this week. I guess that it could only be temporary but it is definitely a new feeling. I have absolutely no desire for SF “with my wife”. I am nice to her, I try to be civil, I am even somewhat affectionate (hugs, holding hand, etc.) but I am absolutely not interested in SF “with her”. I emphasize the “with her” because I do indeed have desire for SF but for some reason I am turned off by my W right now. In the five nights since we have been back from our trip, I haven’t tried to have SF with her a single time (note that she hasn’t initiated anything either). Last week she commented “every time you lay down next to me you want to have SF” – I guess that she can’t say that this week. I don’t know what the root cause of this feeling is but I do recognize some of the ingredients:
• First SF with my W is “ok” but not that great. She is no longer very passionate during SF (no kissing, no passion, etc.) nor adventurous (always same old same old). I would rate our SF as ‘meat and potato’, while I am looking for ‘exotic and spicy’. So, simply put, I am bored with it.
• I am also thinking about the A of course. I sometimes feel disgusted by her body and her presence. I see her as ‘dirty’, damaged goods.
• I guess that I am overcoming some of the feelings of insecurity that I had after D-Day. I know feel more self-confident and I tell myself that she is actually lucky to have me. I am a great guy and I have a lot to offer. I am maybe therefore less tempted to find reassurance in SF with her.
• We had a fair amount of SF last week during our trip so one could think that the SF appetite may be lessened this week. One could also think that we are recovering from the long trip and jet-lag. But for some reason I think that the three other bullets above are much more significant.
I remember reading something about a phase of R when the BS looses SF interest. I don’t know if this is going to last for me but I wonder if there is indeed a phase of R where such feelings are common.

Hi Asterix.

I don't know if it's part of any process of the recovery.

But I also feel a bit like you... but on a very different level. We had a hot-intimacy SF relationship, but that was based on FULL trust. Now SF is kind of disgusting, but I am only 4 months past d-day.

As for your situation... I guess you are putting so much effort into having SF that... maybe, with all the feelings of the A, maybe you're just like... well so much effort for what? Right? YOu have SF but it's not fulfiling. And you are still far from a really fullfiling SF.

Or you're just somewhat testing her...
Have hope and strengh. Let it be for now?

See how she reacts/ notice it, and when she brings it up... just be TOTAL honest.

From there, you'll have to get her some books on the subject. There's plenty.

Maybe she'll see SF with a different shadow, speccialy if she fears really loosing you.

She needs to understand S is about LOVE.

On the meanwhile, get all the info you can to help in your situation.

Hey Asterix, I went through very similar feelings towards SF. Right after d-day it was passionate and reckless. Then it was intense and intimate. Then I felt turned off for a while. Then it was just normal. Then the whole thing kind of repeated itself. I guess the emotional roller-coaster applies to SF too. I also went through periods of wanting SF, but not with my W. I think you'll find that your feelings will stabilize. Hang in there. Use this time to focus on other areas of intimacy and communication.

I feel the same way right now Asterix - and I don't know why either. Usually I have a very high sex drive (too high), but I have little or no desire for W. It's weird. And we haven't had SF in a couple of weeks, so it's not it's because we just had a week like you....

LostWillow – You are right, something I wonder why I make all these efforts to have SF when in most cases it actually ends up being a somewhat unfulfilling experience (even if fulfilling ‘physically’, the ‘mental’ side is usually frustrated). I don’t think that I am testing my W per se, as you suggest, because I am just not interested in SF right now. However I am indeed curious to know if she noticed and if so what she is going to do about it. If behavior predicts, she will not really do anything about it, and actually I will venture to say that she probably appreciates the lack of ‘pressure’. I will never win at the waiting game with her. If she brings it up I don’t know if I can be totally honest. I don’t think that I could tell her that she disgusts me or that I sometimes see her as ‘damaged goods’, this radical honesty would be way too hurtful.

You talk about getting books on the subject. What subject are you referring to? SF, R, M, which one?

The problem is that this lack of desire for SF is accompanied by a general lack of interest in my W and some distancing. It makes focusing on intimacy and communication difficult as at this time I really don’t want much to do with her. Last night, while we were in the car, I could smell her perfume and it was making me sick. When I lie in bed next to her I can feel the anger and anxiety building in me. Sometimes just being around her frustrates me and saddens me. I am considering sleeping in the guest bedroom to avoid some of those negative feelings. What surprises me is that last week I wanted to be close and intimate with her. This week, for no apparent reasons, I am at the other end of the spectrum. All of this also comes with what seems like a depression. I was on the phone with my W a few minutes ago and she told me that I sounded "really down".

193296 - It's interesting that you're going through the same thing right now since not too long ago we were discussing the high S drive. Are you no longer following the 'schedule'?