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Joined: Mar 2005
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DeeGee Offline OP
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Background: GF left me for OM on Jan 20th. We have a 13 mo old son together. XGF has been staying at OM's all night. OM lives with his dad. OM is 35 and is a drifter/bum and has zero responsibilities. XGF is 29, I'm 34 and have everything to offer XGF; including a new house I just bought & the ability for her to be a stay at home mom (her dream).

We were together for over 2 years, but XGF could never commit to marriage – which is what I want (maybe wanted based on her recent activities). I’m following the 180 plan & parts of plan A by distancing myself but still being very pleasant person. My plan is to make myself very attractive via having a life and having it all together, but at the same time be focused away from her b/c 1. she choose the OM and threw me away, and 2. b/c my pursuing her pushes her away and into the arms of the OM.

I think her desire is to have the “ideal” life, but when we got preg, that dream (for her) was shattered and she could never get past that in our relationship. B/c I was married before/ preg outside of marriage, etc. Now the OM has no responsibilities and can make her ideal come true (or so she seems to think).

Since following the 180 plan for a couple of weeks, she has made some incremental steps back toward me. I’ve been “having plans” often and not answering when she calls. She also knows I’m hanging out with some new friends and some are single women. She asked about my V-day. I said I had a great time & really enjoyed myself. She also walked through my new house Sunday afternoon when she picked up DS. She really loved the house when we picked it out in Dec & knows I bought this house for us. So why wd she walk into ever room? BTW, the house was spotless and all set up ( again, I want to make myself look eligible and that I’m moving on).

So here’s my new plan (BTW, she lives an hour away from here. OM & I live in the same town) I’m sent her the following email:

Quote
“I miss DS. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
I’ve been thinking about ways we can work it out for he & I to have some daddy time. It’s important to build the daddy/son bond during this time while he’s so young – just like it is for mommy and son. How would you feel about dropping him off with me when you spend the night in [our town]? That way I can play with him on those evenings and we’d be having bonding time. But, you need to let me know in advance so I won’t make other plans on those days. I’d have him dressed and ready to go in the morning as you head back to work. Whatcha’ think?”

This shows her 2 things: 1. I don’t care what she does anymore & 2. that I want a relationship with our son. A side benefit wd be a comparison: that she sees me, me & DS together, “our” house, and what she’s missing out on right before she goes to see OM at his dad’s house. And then see the same thing when she picks him up in the morning.

She doesn’t know or suspect that I’m aware of her staying the night at the OM’s. Actually I don’t know this, but the evidence points in that direction. Secondly, even if she doesn’t take me up on this she still sees I’m not all that interested in her (only we know that information).

Please let me know your thoughts. I really need support in this.


Love never fails. Me 34 Divorced GF 29 Never married DS 1 What a treasure!
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I got a fast response from her:
Quote
what makes you think i spend the night in [your town]? i stay in [my town]. the weekends when you ahve him are when im over there.

I replied back:


I’m just saying when you do stay in [our town] that I’d love to watch DS on those nights. The rest doesn’t matter to me anymore, but developing my relationship with DS matters a lot – just like it does for you.


Love never fails. Me 34 Divorced GF 29 Never married DS 1 What a treasure!
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Dg - I think you misunderstand both the 180 and Plan A.
Quote
Since following the 180 plan for a couple of weeks, she has made some incremental steps back toward me. I’ve been “having plans” often and not answering when she calls. She also knows I’m hanging out with some new friends and some are single women.


Are you trying to manipulate her? Sounds like it.

Now, that said, you absolutely should not "pursue" her and be overbearing.

But avoiding her calls is stupid. The calls give you an opportunity to Plan A her - to fill those ENs.

What did you think Plan A was?

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WAT, I understand where you're comming from. She wont let me meet her needs. If I offer anything she turns me down - so I stopped asking. I plan A by being cheerful & happy. I want her to see that I'm not devastated about loosing her.

She has never pursued me. For over two years I've been pursuing her. Her last BF never pursued her, but she chased him for 4 years and said she would have married him. Now, the OM is letting her pursue him too. If I suggest anything, then she pulls away.

My logic is that I need to pull away and accept that she broke up with me (which I have accepted). I'm letting her see the consequences of her choice, which frees me to get on with my life. I'm doing just that. I'm making new friends, but I absolutely am not going to get into a new relationship for some time. But she needs to see that I am moving forward w/o her.

So that's my plan. I'm being nice and friendly but I'm moving away at the same time. By moving away it will create more "space" than she wants with me. Dobson wrote about this in Love Must be Tough and illustrated the idea with pictures of hands moving back and forth. I think she's seeing a little less fantasy with the OM and also sees me getting on with my life.

If I don't distance she'll continue to believe that I'll "always" be here for her if it doesn't work out with OM. Distancing myself allows me to not be thinking about she & OM and allows me to redevelop some of my old hobbies and work on making me a better person from all this.

What do you think?


Love never fails. Me 34 Divorced GF 29 Never married DS 1 What a treasure!
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Quote
Distancing myself allows me to not be thinking about she & OM and allows me to redevelop some of my old hobbies and work on making me a better person from all this.

Sounds like you want to be in Plan B.

But first, have you explored your legal situation recognizing you have a child with this girl and you're not married? In your locale, what are your rights regarding custody of the child?

WAT

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DeeGee Offline OP
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I'm not ready for Plan B & not sure if that would help us. In another post Mr & Mrs Wandering and others recommended the 180 plan. Here's my detailed story: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post2938434

I read Carolkh's use of the 180 and was inspired. Well worth the read.
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=014880;p=1


Love never fails. Me 34 Divorced GF 29 Never married DS 1 What a treasure!
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Deegee,

Please notice WAT has a ton more experience than me. I think I was right and I like your approach (though it's about you, moving on, accepting uncertainty and not changing her and there is no need to avoid phone calls) but if WAT has some different or new ideas listen to him.

Mr. W


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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I see the 180 plan making inroads into her head. She was on the fence for a couple of months. After D-day she choose me and agreed to NC with OM. That lasted 5 weeks until Jan 20th. The previous week & a half she'd been back in contact with OM and could not stand cheating on me so she broke up with me and choose his side of the fence. Since plan 180 I've been distancing myself from her but still being nice/ cheerful when I'm around her; I've noticed her looking back over the fence.

For example, today I had to go by her blgd to turn in some paperwork at work and I went by her desk to say hi. She asked if she could come over to my rental house and take a nap after work for an hour (same town as her office). I said that's fine b/c I have to do some things there this evening. She came over & I could tell she wanted to say something but I went outside to work in the yard instead. My usual response wd have been to encourage her to talk but this time I did the unpredictable thing. At 5:30 it was time to pick up DS from daycare so I did that & let her sleep. When she left she made reference to me having a lot of "plans" lately. I said yeah, it's been fun hanging out with my new friends. She asked if I could keep DS tmrw night (Fri), I said I'd love to but I have a bonfire party to go to and I'd be out too late for DS.

She's curious about what I've been doing lately, but I'm being quiet with giving her details. Usually I'm an open book so now she's beginning to wonder. Also, during this time the OM would normally be calling - but I didn't hear her cell ring this afternoon. Makes me wonder what's going on with her/them. She did have v-day flower on her desk at work.

Oh, Mr. W, you'll be glad to hear I asked for 4 days alternating custody today with no child support. She sd she'd think about it. Her only voiced concern is that DS wd be in two day cares. So we'll see what she says. Of course if we'd get married she could easily be a stay at home mom and we wouldn't have to bother with any childcare.

Keep us in your prayers. I miss her and DS terribly.


Love never fails. Me 34 Divorced GF 29 Never married DS 1 What a treasure!
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Here's the background info:
Dday was Nov.20th or so.

I need to follow some good advice I heard somewhere: “If you want to get someone’s attention…whisper.” Yesterday I shouted b/c I was extremely mad at her.

She refused to pick up DS at my house yesterday morning and made me drive 60 miles total to drop him off and was mad at me about this. ??? I was doing her a favor and somehow I’m the bad guy and a "stupid idiot" for expecting her to pick up Liam like she said she would do the night before. BTW, she was going to her mom's house to get some rest, but ended up at the OM's for the night.

I sent this email to her, OM and several of their friends:
Quote
XGF,

You say to me today: “You’re a stupid idiot”. Maybe I am after thinking about things.

Stupid:
1. Slow to learn or understand; obtuse.
2. Tending to make poor decisions or careless mistakes.
3. Marked by a lack of intelligence or care; foolish or careless: a stupid mistake.
4. Dazed, stunned, or stupefied.
5. Pointless; worthless.

Idiot:
1. A person of subnormal intelligence
2. A person of profound mental retardation having a mental age below three years and generally being unable to learn connected speech or guard against common dangers.

To all:
I would like to apologize to everyone for being stupid in believing in a fairytale dream about making a life for XGF, DS and myself.

To XGF:
I studied my butt off and earned an Engineering degree and I studied some more and earned a Master’s degree. But you say that I’m a stupid idiot. Maybe so; if I had only thought of going to college for something easy like philosophy or English, but I didn’t think of that.

I’ve been planning, saving, investing, tithing and giving since I got my first job at age 15. But you say that I’m a stupid idiot. I hate to think of all the things I could have blown my money on instead. OM has a philosophy degree and got his first job at age 27. Why didn’t I think of doing that? Between graduating with the “ultra difficult” philosophy degree and starting his first job years later; OM allegedly lived solely on his girlfriend’s income. But you say that I’m a stupid idiot, maybe so because I never thought of a relationship like that and have free sex too! I could kick myself for not thinking of how I could live life like that.

You said you were so tired last night and it is all you can do to stay awake b/c DS get’s up so early and it’s so tiring b/c he’s into everything. I’m glad you asked me to watch him last night so you “could head up to your mom’s house, go to bed early and get some rest”. You say I’m a stupid idiot and I think you truly believe I am for me believe you’d be at your mom’s last night. When we were together for those 2 years, I never thought of using someone else like this to watch DS so that you could “get some” rest at my house. Wow, its like it never occurred to me you’d lie about staying at OM’s last week/ last night/ whenever - even though we all know it happens on a regular basis. OM’s so smart to get you to lie for his “benefit”. I never thought I could use other people to watch DS like this or is it just me?

Speaking of OM’s benefit; you said according to OM, 50% of his relationship is sex. The question that begs to be answered is “what is the other 50% to him?” Home made videos? It looks to me and others that are familiar with the details, that it is pursuing women who can financially benefit him and give him sex? But what do I know? You say that I’m a stupid idiot; I guess others are as stupid as I am. Perhaps he is growing up, after all he has found a suga’ momma that is debt free and has money to spare [on him] – a little now, a whole lot more later. He knows he’ll need the financial resources as his “responsibility” has taken him from job to job. But you say that I’m a stupid idiot. I cannot believe I didn’t think of sneaking after your money when we dated. I am so stupid I got it all wrong; I was trying to help you reach your financial goals so that you could stay at home with DS.

You say that $ince meeting you, OM now wants to begin to be responsible (at age 35) and is situating/positioning himself accordingly – to be a supporting husband for you and a dad for DS. Oh yeah, you can bet your money he is. Good for him, most of us matured and accepted responsibility for our own welfare like this somewhere in our late teens/ early twenties. But why now for OM to decide on changing his tested, tried and true program of stress free living and ducking responsibilities? What’$ $o $pecial about you that he want’$ to ¢hange his poor/ financially insufficient lifestyle for this new “responsible” life$tile? He mu$t $ee $omething $pecial in you. I bet he ¢ling$ to you come ****** or high water. You’re a sure bet for him. But you say that I’m a stupid idiot. You’re right, I feel so stupid too for not planning my finances that well.

Remember in November when we picked out our house together and then I bought that new house to start our life together? You said that you “loved it; it’s perfect for us.” You’re right; I am a stupid idiot for buying a house for us to live in. After OM’s previous cash cow girlfriend left, he ran out of money, moved from his cheap rental house and lives in his DAD’s house “to save some money” (He’s 35 for goodness’ sake and still lives at home). It’s amazing; I never considered that I could still live with my parents and not have to worry about providing a house for myself or for us? OMG, I’m so stupid; expensive house payment vs. next to nothing in rent and still sleep in a warm bed each night? And better yet have my girlfriend and her son spend the night at my dad’s house too. What was I thinking to buy you, DS and myself a new house? Heck we could have just lived with your mom and saved money too.

You now have a 401k with over $14,000 saved in less than two years worth of investments. Not bad when 2+2=4 (see below for OM’s rational that 2+2=5 is really what provides happiness). I’m sorry I pushed you to do that b/c I’m a stupid idiot. I need to pay attention to OM more, he’s pushing you for custody papers and child support from me. You know I love DS and want to support him in every way possible. Hmm, but wait a minute; I’m going to step out on a limb and try to apply some new knowledge here… If I were OM, what would I do to get out of this problem? I guess being supportive and cooperative with my ex-wife concerning our kids is not a good example of how I want to treat you and DS. Gosh I’m so stupid for trying to live my historic and factual example with my ex-wife before you. OM predicts I’m going to fight you in court, it’s going to be very ugly, and that you better hire the best attorney you can get so that you’ll get everything you’re entitled to. (Never mind the fact that I’ve never been to a custody battle in court over my kids but have always tried to see what’s best for them). But child support does trickle down into the purse and would be more money for OM too after all.

You maximized your homeowner and flood insurance claims and received enough money to pay off your house. I’m sorry for being so stupid in suggesting/helping you do this. I was only trying to help. If I were OM, I’d have broken my car back then and have you to buy us both new cars and new clothes with all that money. I’m so stupid for giving you such bad advice. I’m sorry I didn’t encourage you to get the new car you’ve been wanting.

You’re now totally debt free. Again, I’m sorry for being so stupid in crimping your spending money so often. Maybe if I didn’t look at the future so much I could have seen that it’s better to live for today, like OM does. Carpe diem! Debt and payments are ok and don’t matter; you can pay those later because it’s buying today that’ll make you happy. OM knows that; why didn’t I think using that philosophy? I’m so stupid! Lucky for you that he’s there to save you, before I “made” you to do something really crazy with your money.

Your rental house is now renting for $975/month profit and has good tenants that will take care of the place. But you say that I’m a stupid idiot, so I think you should follow OM’s advice and once I get the leased signed with the new tenants, then yank the manager responsibility away from me and give it to OM. He’s so smart at getting things to work out for him. Now that he’s all up in you and your business; I’m certain he’s smart enough to not kill the goose that delivers the golden eggs. He’s not going to let anything happen to you as long as he sees you producing eggs.

I’ve succeeded in setting up a life and salary so that you could have been a stay at home mom in that new house I purchased for us. But you say that I’m a stupid idiot. If I were OM, what should I do instead? Hmm, I’m going to go out on another limb here… Maybe I’ll run for political office. I could devote 50% of my job to screwing lots of people (my constituents) and devote the other 50% of my time raising their taxes so I could get more money from the same ones I’m screwing. Has OM even talked about running for Mayor?

I read relationship books so that I can learn & develop habits and a lifestyle that build up you, my children and others by learning the skills to be a better husband, father, and friend. But you say I’m a stupid idiot.

OM wrote to me that relationship books force people into doing unnatural things. He states that relationship counselors are like auto mechanics, but people aren’t broken cars – so why go to a mechanic?; that if two people cannot figure it out by themselves then it’s not going to work anyway. He suggests that love coupons are pathetic. OM’s answer to relationship books is that he reads literature and twists the meaning to hurt others [me] by quoting Edgar Allen Poe’s “The Amontillado” & putting up brick wall pictures and pictures of an angry guy throwing flowers with the quote “About love: its perfect, no?” when you decided to break up with me. Why would OM want to “hurt” me? B/c he wanted to rub my nose in it because he “won” and has you. But you say I’m the stupid idiot. I’ll try to twist words around too.

I am a Christian and you say that I’m so stupid. OM’s an atheist (I know philosophers would rather be called agnostic- but it’s really the same thing – there is no God except self). OM’s got all the answers so even if Christian values are good, he asks “why believe in a God?” OM wrote that for himself “love is god”.

I responsibly left my job [also where XGF & OM worked] with plenty of notice. My boss hated to see me leave and wrote an excellent letter of recommendation to my new employer. OM gave his notice on Feb 6th and walked out a few days later b/c his boss told him to do his job. OM irresponsibility quit and walked out b/c he hates authority. But you say that I’m a stupid idiot. I’m taking note on how to be more of a free spirit and create less stability in my work & personal life.

You told me I’ve done NOTHING wrong in our relationship. I think you’re right b/c I’ve done just what the relationship books – books that you used to read & wanted Pete (her XBF of 4-years) to read, said to do and attempted to meet your needs so that you/we would have a comfortable and happy life. But you say that I’m a stupid idiot. Was Pete a stupid idiot too? What did he do that caused you to leave him for me, and now you’ve left me for OM? I’ve always felt bad about my behavior 2+ years ago and still do now. I hope this is not a pattern developing for you. I still cannot predict what OM’s pattern may be. Some people call such things a generational curse – I guess they mean our kids learn from our behaviors and repeat them in their lives. You said my pattern is predictable; I’m ok with stability and predictability. OM, however, gloats that he “won” his prize and you choose him over me. I’m so stupid, I should be gloating too. I’ll think about this some more and what I can learn from the various ways things keep playing out. I appreciate OM for showing me this. You and he figured it out for us – I feel like I’m a stupid idiot and feel sure that I would have kept on believing in us and a fairytale that you said you wanted too.

Even though I knew about OM (and even asked him face to face that he stop pursuing you b/c we were trying to build our relationship toward a marriage (by the way he said “No” to my request and stepped up his pursuit of you), I still pursued you after you broke up with me to date OM. You say “I didn’t break up with you b/c of him” – whatever! You can read the posts below where he pursued you while you dated me and then you’re dating him the very evening you broke up with me – again whatever!, it does not matter anymore – you choose him. Back then I chose to believe in you; I chose to believe in us and you say today that I’m a stupid idiot. Maybe so, but I’m not stupid anymore. The depth of the lies, your disbelief that you are lying, and your belief of finding your “ideal person” in OM wasn’t funny when you told me “I can’t stop thinking about him” when you were dating me, but its funny to me now. Congratulations to you both.

You can pull a person up, but it’s much, much easier for them to pull you down. OM has done a good job bringing us up to his superior, albeit unconventional, outlook on life.

In OM’s own words:
the goal with my hair is to appear as cartoonish as possible
cartoons
immaturity
kindergarten
they all run together

To OM: Well said. I admire your philosophy and taking on life in a cartoonish way. You have taught me something that “love” blinded me from seeing about XGF and her repeating actions and belief that “only someone CRAZY would be happy that 2+2=5. that's kind of chaotic” but then she’s been acting crazy lately and her life seems somewhat chaotic. You figured it out for me/us and you may have been the savior in preventing me from making an error. Thank you.

To all: Let me say once again that I apologize for being stupid, that is, “slow to learn or understand”, as I believed too long in a fairytale dream - but I’m starting to catch on quickly. Do I still love XGF? Of course I do, well, sort of - I love who I thought she was and always will. But I don’t bring out or see the best in her anymore.

Take care,
BS

Below are quotes and text from OM’s live journal website, but it’s since been hidden from public view.

OM Posted: October 23th 10:30pm
{Here OM is talking about love to my then GF – way back in October. Please note the update where he suggests that she fly away to someone new. Who says he wasn’t chasing her? That’s a bunch of bull. D-day was just before Thanksgiving}

2 variations on a theme

1) I think of the postmodern attitude as that of a man who loves a very cultivated woman and knows that he cannot say to her, 'I love you madly', because he knows that she knows (and that she knows that he knows) that these words have already been written by Barbara Cartland. Still, there is a solution. He can say, 'As Barbara Cartland would put it, I love you madly.' At this point, having avoided false innocence, having said clearly that it is no longer possible to speak innocently, he will nevertheless have said what he wanted to say to the woman: that he loves her, but he loves her in an age of lost innocence. If the woman goes along with this, she will have received a declaration of love all the same. Neither of the two speakers will feel innocent, both will have accepted the challenge of the past, of the already said, which cannot be eliminated, both will consciously and with pleasure play the game of irony... But both will have succeeded, once again, in speaking of love. -ue
2) john lennon - love

lets all fly away to
somewhere, no make that, someone new...
XGF replied: @ October 26th 10:20am
YOU are a romantic?! hmmmm That's a lovely song.

New OM Post: @ Oct 29th 11:21pm
2+2=5 Thinking is the enemy of feeling
2+2=4 is a terrific thing.
theres no disputing that.
but sometimes 2+2=5 makes me happy...
XGF replied: Thinking vs.feeling Oct 30th 8:36am
I prefer to think of it as Checks and Balances
as for your arithmetic. . . only someone CRAZY would be happy that 2+2=5. that's kind of chaotic <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
New OM Post:
notes from the underground Oct 30th 5:23pm
let the lover be disgraceful, crazy, absent-minded
someone sober will worry about events going badly
let the lover be
-rumi
"only someone CRAZY would would happy that 2+2=5. that's kind of chaotic"
do i really have to spell it all out for you?
XGF answered:
Re: notes from the underground. Oct 30th 7:08pm
well, yes. i really wish you would spell it out, actually. call me CRAZY but i really dont think you CAN explain it.

So how can I recover w/o pissing her off any more? I know the short answer is give it some time, but should I do anything today? She just called my cell phone but I didn’t answer. I also learned she called in sick & didn't show up for work.


Love never fails. Me 34 Divorced GF 29 Never married DS 1 What a treasure!

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