Caren -

Hi there! Thanks for your post - I hope I'm not making a mistake by responding. And I hope I am reading properly into this -



I think this applies to the situation at hand here...

Thanks for sharing that-- You take care!!

Kim

Kim:

I was advised by Steve Harley and MM during this NEGOTIATION stage...

The recommendation to me was to RESPOND BACK but to KEEP IT SIMPLE...

Basically: "Get rid of the OW.. then WE can talk about US..how are YOU going to do that?"

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Mimi is exactly right! Stick to the conditions in your letter and keep it simple and concise. Eventually, he will get the message.

There ya go......Mimi and Mel have it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

That's what you should do!

God Bless,

-Caren

Kim, I was thinking tonight about your sitch and want to throw something out there. What about approaching the sitch from a different angle. Right now WH is in a tizzy over money and is apparently in a financial bind. You guys seem to be having the same conversations. Will you refi? NO. Have you ended your affair? NO.

What if you approached him in a note this way: WH First I want to make it perfectly clear that your affair/our marriage and refi/your financial sitch are two completely and totally seperate issues. Now, you know that I will not agree to a refi. Period. End of discussion. Now tell me, what is your Plan B for rectifying your financial situation? What is your backup plan? Try to force him to come up with a game plan instead of trying to get blood from a stone.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Mimi, MelodyLane, Shattered -

Thanks for more insight to my sitch! I do believe it is best to reiterate my conditions in Plan B letter. Short & to the point.


Uh oh. I'm getting a little soft.

Kim

He shore knows how to "play" on your sympathy bone! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I hope you word your note in a way that makes him understand that "signing a form letter" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> ain't the goal. Good grief, that is rich....

Hey MelodyLane -


Here's my question with this note ----- by me putting the ending the affair in his hands, what if he ends it & then I ask him to prepare a NC letter. He will say "Well, you asked me to end the affair & I did. What's the point of a NC letter?"

Kim

"The point of the NC letter is to demonstrate to ME that you value you my feelings are willing to demonstrate your committment to our marriage and the end of your affair."

Good!!!!! I've got to write that down!!!!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Thanks Mel!

Kim

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

O.k. - he's coming more out of the FOG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What would my next negotiation be???? I did send down the note asking if he had ENDED THE AFFAIR.

Thanks,

Kim

[color:"blue"]Dear WS,

Interesting letter and w/b one to give me hope until your last couple of sentences...... since you still have love for the OW and want to save her from pain while you continue to inflict pain on your family..... I do not feel safe moving forward with you.

Your letter lends the feeling that you want to keep your options open with 2 women. I can't be just a # in your life even if I was #1. I need t/b the only one. Your family needs t/b the only one.

Take a look at your priorities again. If you insist on making your family just a number among your collection, we will have to move forward without you.

You decide.

BS and family.[/color]

That's my version.

L.

Orchid -

I liked his letter too until I got to that one part. At least he's being honest. But he does need to make a choice on ending the A or working on his family.

Don't you think it possible though for him to still "have strong feelings" for OW. He is going to have to go through withdrawal from her. If he says to me "Kim, the A is over." then I can help him through that withdrawal stage......I can't make him instantly get rid of his feelings for her.

Agreed that he does not see the point of the NC letter. He is going to have to understand that. His desire to protect her from pain is unacceptable in my book. Sometimes the truth hurts.

Thanks!

Kim

He is still a Ws and now your H is starting to make a show. So expect the WS in him to try and make the OW prominent in your life.

You have the choice NOT to accept the OW or A in your life. You also have the choice to accept him back as an Xws or as your H. It is risky as an Xws and will take longer if you wait until he is fully an H again. That's the hard part.

Still he must make you feel safe. NO more anger outbursts from him and watch out for his selfish side.....question, is he still doing this to get you to refi or some other selfish agenda?

L.

Orchid -


This letter sounded much more like my H than my WH. I don't want to rush back into this though. And I want to know if he has ended the A. I do not want him back if they are still in contact. NO WAY.

I'm going out to get some things done before DS gets back ----Check back in later.

thanks, Orchid --

Kim

ok, what has he told you here? Only that he loves the OW and this will not change. He has not offered to do ANYTHING in your letter. He will think about signing your "form letter." [his insincere no contact letter that he tells you RIGHT UP FRONT HE DOESN'T MEAN] He is trying to manipulate you into refinancing and giving him some money while he BUYS SOME MORE TIME to pursue the OW.

THERE IS NOTHING HERE about ending his affair and recommitting to your marriage.

DO NOT FALL FOR IT. Counseling is a waste of time as long as he is in an affair.

Kim, he is doing nothing but HANDING YOU MORE CRUMBS because your Plan B is working. He wants you to end the pain but he doesn't want to DO ANYTHING to acheive it.

Send him your note that you already wrote and IGNORE THIS.

Of course he hasn't mentioned finances recently. That STRATEGY did not work! Now he is trying a new one. Sending mushy letters full of flowery, meaningless words designed to soften your heart, while offering NOTHING.

Sorry, but this is FOOLS GOLD, Kim. It aint' the real thing.He is simply trying to pull you of Plan B by buying TIME and never having to end his affair or commit to your marriage.

***O.k. - he's coming more out of the FOG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!***

No, Kim. No, he is NOT coming out of the "fog". If anything, it's only gotten thicker.

Look again at what he actually wrote, not just at the parts you are zooming in on:

" . . . but I do care about OW and that too will not change. I'm not asking you to accept the fact that I love someone else, only that I cannot deny my strong feelings for her."

Does this sound like a man who wants to devote himself to his wife and his marriage??

Do you think he means this "love" he speaks of is just an abstract memory he'll carry around with him, like the distant memory of a high-school sweetheart? Uh-uh. I think it means "love" that is alive and kicking and very, very active right now.

"I would like to try counseling again. We can go back to same MC or pick someone else, but I would like to do that before I sign the form letter. I would just like another opinion on where our future likes and whether signing the letter will help us or will it just cause unnecessary pain to OW for nothing."

Translation: I'll go to counseling if it will string you along for a while longer and let me keep two women dangling because I really like the two of you fighting over me. And since I have no intention of losing OW, I'm not about to send some fake letter if it might mess things up for me on that side of the fence.

Kim, you are setting yourself up for a tremendous fall here. Please don't buy one word of what he is saying. He's just trying to make sure he's still got BOTH of you. That's all.

I'm sorry this is happening to you, but please don't make it worse by falling for something like this now.
Mulan

Heck, the only reason for this letter is to sucker you into thinking he's going to consider working on the marriage. When he has you suckered into believing that, he's going to try to sucker you into the refinancing to resolve his financial woes. You see, when you didn't jump in a rescue him when he asked outright for the money, he strategized and came up with a new approach to get the money...

Regards,

BB