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You don't think he is sincere, do you?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Kim why do you think you sucked at Plan A? I remember you did a superb job! I cried too much!!!! I didn't LB though. So that was good. Kim, don't be hesitant here. You can't afford to leave one thing unsaid. This, ML, is one of my weaknesses. Being hesitant. SIMPLE DIRECTIONS AND INSTRUCTIONS NOW..GET RID OF THE OW...WRITE THE NC LETTER...COMMIT TO WORKING ON THE MARRIAGE...
THEN AND ONLY THEN..begin to attend to his woundedness..otherwise, if you begin to rescue him prior to his making a commitment to you, you stand the chance of ENABLING THE A ..You don't want him to begin to feel better before you reconcile.. Mimi - Got it. First I get the NC letter. And a committment(which I don't think I have a full committment yet) He should feel wounded and down. He should feel bad given what he has done. I know it will take some time for him to truly realize how bad he's been. It's hard to not expect that realization right away. Kim
D-Day May 14th, 2005
Married 16 Years
DS age 8
6 months Plan A
Plan B 10-11-05, H moved back in June 2007, Very False Recovery.
2nd Day-Day 7/7/08 Kicked WH Out.
Plan B for my sanity
"Enjoy the little things, for one day you may look back and realize they were the big things." Robert Brault
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I posted just ahead of you...
I kind of disagree about slowness in him coming home...
If he voices a plan to get rid of the OW for life, writes the letter and wants to come home, I would let him...you don't want him to lose his nerve and get back started up with her again...
That's my opinion... But Mimi, what if he is not truly ready to commit? If I let him come home then I have backtracked.... Kim
Last edited by kimberly234; 03/13/06 10:11 PM.
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Ok Everybody..... Kim has been through a lot today. Don't give her next month's assignment now and expect the WS to keep up. Let her enjoy her glass of wine while the WS starts whining to her H about how wimpy and unloved he feels. LOL!!! Kim, right now you need to relax. Let the impact of that convo sink into him. He is a guy and by that alone it will take longer for him to assimulate. (sorry guys!!!)..... False recovery? You only have a partial impact on making that happen or not. Most cases it is because the WS is allowed to come back as the WS. Just know this, any manipulation tactics, he has to move 3 steps back. You don't have to fall for that ploy. The only one who really loses is him and already acknowledged he is a loser as is. Remind him you love your H but not he WS. The sit back. Get some rest. Don't be too anxious. Expect some backslide or slipups. Heck, expect yourself to LB a bit. LOL!!! That's ok. It is par for the course. He'll live. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> take care, L.
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Kim, I don't think she means to allow him to come home if he is uncommitted, only that you shouldn't let it drag out too long, lest he end up back with the OW. You should NOT let him home without a committment to repair your marriage.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Mel - He didn't mention a timeline. And, as far as his sincerity......Maybe I am doubting him b/c I don't want to get my hopes up? I don't know. I just know that I want to be cautious.
I know that bringing him home sooner would help him financially. I am just scared, nervous, etc. Again, Plan B has gotten to be quite comfortable.
Kim
D-Day May 14th, 2005
Married 16 Years
DS age 8
6 months Plan A
Plan B 10-11-05, H moved back in June 2007, Very False Recovery.
2nd Day-Day 7/7/08 Kicked WH Out.
Plan B for my sanity
"Enjoy the little things, for one day you may look back and realize they were the big things." Robert Brault
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ok, I think you are right to be cautious. You are taking the right approach.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Kim, right now you need to relax. Let the impact of that convo sink into him. He is a guy and by that alone it will take longer for him to assimulate. (sorry guys!!!)..... Orchid - you're making me giggle!!! Could be the wine though.....Hope none of the gusy take offense to that!! Where are the guys BTW? Anybody heard from LemonMan lately?? He should be eating some more crow about right now!!! Kim, I don't think she means to allow him to come home if he is uncommitted, only that you shouldn't let it drag out too long, lest he end up back with the OW. You should NOT let him home without a committment to repair your marriage. OOOOHHHHH! Got it. GIVE ME SOME COMMITTMENT!!!!!!!! Kim
D-Day May 14th, 2005
Married 16 Years
DS age 8
6 months Plan A
Plan B 10-11-05, H moved back in June 2007, Very False Recovery.
2nd Day-Day 7/7/08 Kicked WH Out.
Plan B for my sanity
"Enjoy the little things, for one day you may look back and realize they were the big things." Robert Brault
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Kim- Good job!!!! I know it's hard for you to believe in him, especially since they (WS's) seem so negative.....you'd think they'd be jumping for joy to have another chance...but I learned from Mimi that's not the case. I know you're scared, you obviously benefitted from Plan B, and it's your safety zone, it's easy to recoil back to that place where you know your safe......this is a scary proposition to put your trust (Eventually) back in someone that did something so awful to you. Regarding your thoughts that you won't approve of his NC letter. You probably won't......but it's an amazing thing that he is even going to sit down and write the thing. Does he know what it should contain??? Don't be too rough in *grading* this letter <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I think it's sorta normal for them to feel weird about the BS talking to the OPH.....it's partially because by doing that you took their *candy* away.....but I believe it's partially because they don't trust you. WE know that exposure was necessary, that telling OWH was necessary, but it HURT (Which is good....and that was the point), so you have to take into consideration that they have to learn to trust YOU again too. I think the conversation went fine. It was pretty close to what I expected it to be. You're both going to be circling each other wondering if the other is safe to approach......he is worried that he won't be able to get his feelings back for you AND he is worried that you won't be able to truly forgive him for what he did. (He's not going to admit that outright...but he is). Think about it....it's probably hard to believe that someone you've hurt so badly could love you again, and not just want to punish you. I mean how can someone else forgive you when you haven't forgiven yourself for this glaring error in judgement? So you're supposed to have the letter by Tuesday and he is just going to send it up with DS??? I think that you should probably *get together* regarding the letter....I, actually, think he needs a copy of that one in the book....because the letter you get back is probably not going to contain everything you need, because he has no idea what to write, except that he doesn't want any contact with her. I think you'll be spared the "I'm sorry, I still love you and don't want to hurt you but my wife is mean and is making me write this" thing in the letter....because he sounds like he has resigned himself to the fact that the *A* thing was a bad idea, and I think that he's most likely gone through the worst part of withdrawls by himself. I understand what people mean when they say that recovery is the hardest part of the MB plan. It's hard to accept that after everything your WS has done to you that they're not monumentally sorry immediately and throwing themselves at your feet begging for forgiveness. I think as long as he is willing to try, that's really all you can expect at this juncture, I think the realization that he's been a giant a-hole will surface later <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Again, good job!!! God Bless, -Caren
Always Look For Grace Given, Even in the midst of Grace Denied.
BS-Me 39
WH-37
Together 15 years
Married 12 years
7 kids total, His: SD20, SS18, Twin SS's 16.
Mine: DD22, DD15
Ours: DD12
Affair began Fall 04, Separated Fall 04,2 Failed Plan B attempts, False recovery of sorts Spring 05.......Still pluggin' away.
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Hi, Kim. Never responded to your posts before, but from a man's perspective, ...TOTALLY NICE JOB!
Now continue to go and do things FOR YOURSELF!! Continue to move on.....and when/if WH wants to talk or see you....don't JUMP at the chance everytime!!! This is a time to show him that you'd be JUST FINE without him....and that YOU might not want him back...if he doesn't show 1000% effort. Maybe, for awhile, schedule LOTS of things to do over the next few weeks....fun things, for yourself. If WH wants to talk or see you..."well, I'm kinda busy during the next few days..." make him pursue you!!! Not a game, mind you, just evidence FOR YOU to see if he is REALLY committed. Be positve, upbeat, PROUD of who you've become...YOU CAN HAVE A LIFE, WITH OR WITHOUT HIM!!!...and you have proved it to yourself...you have the control now!!
And when you are satisfied that he has demonstrated TO YOU that he has what it takes to give it the most he can give....you can then, S-l-o-w-l-y give HIM hope!!!! Let HIM LONG for YOU!!!! But all at the same time, show him YOUR progress as the STRONGER woman that you have become!!!
God Bless you this morning!!!! Now go get your hair done, or get a massage...you deserve it!!!
He's confused now....show him he shouldn't be....that YOU are the GOLD MEDAL....not silver, not bronze!!!!
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My Wife: I appreciate that you are speaking from a MAN'S PERSPECTIVE but not from the PERSPECTIVE OF A WH who is beginning to BREAK OUT OF THE FOG... You said: This is a time to show him that you'd be JUST FINE without him....and that YOU might not want him back... I disagree with this... This is the time when HE NEEDS A ROAD MAP HOME... The time to show him that you would be fine without him is at the start of PLAN B or during PLAN B but NOT NOW... I'm speaking up here because, IMO, based on my experience, Kim's SMALL STEPS here are SO CRUCIAL... If WH wants to talk or see you..."well, I'm kinda busy during the next few days... I repeat what I recommended last night: If he wants to TALK, repeat back SHORT AND SIMPLE, LIKE A BROKEN RECORD.."GET RID OF THE OW for life..how are planning to do that?"..CLICK..I agree with NOT MEETING WITH HIM...JUST TALK OVER THE PHONE... Well, yes..he needs to do most of the work.. However, if he is at the point of ending the A, he will need some help from you and the belief that YOU CAN AND WILL HELP HIM..he has HIT HIS BOTTOM and IS A BROKEN, DEPRESSED MAN at this point... This is already happening to some extent... Don't give him the benefit of face to face contact..maintain brief contact over the phone UNTIL he is agreeable to the NC LETTER AND COMMITMENT TO WORKING ON THE MARRIAGE...THAT'S A MAJOR EXPECTATION FOR A WH/WS.... He's confused now....show him he shouldn't be.... He will REMAIN CONFUSED for SEVERAL MONTHS.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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You're both going to be circling each other wondering if the other is safe to approach......he is worried that he won't be able to get his feelings back for you AND he is worried that you won't be able to truly forgive him for what he did. (He's not going to admit that outright...but he is).
Think about it....it's probably hard to believe that someone you've hurt so badly could love you again, and not just want to punish you. I mean how can someone else forgive you when you haven't forgiven yourself for this glaring error in judgement? I think Caren's right on target about this... My FWH had this concern..still does.. He was real focused, I remember, on not wanting to feel "beat up" by me..saying, he was doing that enough to himself... Now, he seems so appreciative...his message to me is often.."How can you possibly continue to love ME?"..he, of course, knows even more than I do about the AWFUL things that he did..he continues to indicate that there are things that I NEVER need to know for FEAR that I would STOP LOVING HIM...YUK....
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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Agree 100%, Mimi! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I definitely don't think now is the time to play *hard to get*. Her WH is already up to his eyeballs in doubt about whether or not he's damaged this M beyond repair. You have to remember, Kim is the one that is equipped with all the knowledge that it takes to get this M up and running again, she has to guide him through this. The only thing that he has right now is the willingness to try. Again, Kim, you did well last night <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> God Bless, -Caren
Always Look For Grace Given, Even in the midst of Grace Denied.
BS-Me 39
WH-37
Together 15 years
Married 12 years
7 kids total, His: SD20, SS18, Twin SS's 16.
Mine: DD22, DD15
Ours: DD12
Affair began Fall 04, Separated Fall 04,2 Failed Plan B attempts, False recovery of sorts Spring 05.......Still pluggin' away.
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Hi Kim,
...just got caught up on your thread....I am here for support....as you are getting great advice!
Keep up the good work.
(((((((((((((((KIM)))))))))))))))
XBW
DS16 & DS22
PLAN D: finalized!
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Kim, I'm just a lurker most of the time but I wanted to comment on Mimi's advice: think Caren's right on target about this...
My FWH had this concern..still does..
He was real focused, I remember, on not wanting to feel "beat up" by me..saying, he was doing that enough to himself...
Now, he seems so appreciative...his message to me is often.."How can you possibly continue to love ME?"..he, of course, knows even more than I do about the AWFUL things that he did..he continues to indicate that there are things that I NEVER need to know for FEAR that I would STOP LOVING HIM...YUK.... She is right on. After the NC, you will have to take the risk of recovery. Because it is a risk however you look at it. I would listen to Melody about calling SH. He may be the jump off you both need to get started on real recovery. My husband and I were separated for 4 months, and when he came home, it was real hard. I hate to say this, but it's almost like you have to "fake it to make it". At a point you begin to feel he's sincere about recovery and you both form a plan, I would start dating each other again. Do things that keep you from discussing the A, like movies, picnics, hikes, biking, etc... The biggest obstacle for me the BS, was to find parts of my husband that didn't remind me of the WS,the A, the pain... so I could begin to fall in love with him again. We really focused on honesty, deep soul searching discussions (not a lot early on, but when the trust started to come back), but mostly we focus on light fun and getting to know each other again. My husband kept saying the same things about us, "he didn't know if he could love me again etc..." It was hard to not focus on that, but with my new strength and independence, I kept telling him the old marriage was gone, this is the new us and we will build something better. You have new and better tools now..... You know the old habits didn't work for either of you.... The biggest thing I reminded myself daily during recovery was: "FWS and I have two issues.... the old problems in our marriage, and his affair." The cart comes before the horse. And if you work building a foundation again, you can start to work on healing from the affair. I am really happy for you...all the best, Rachel
BS (me) - 30
FWS - 32
dd - 11
dd- 2 years
together 8 years
married 8/25/02
PA - 5/03 ended 12/31/03
Separated 3/18/04 to 6/30/04
DD 5/27/04
getting better, in recovery
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I guess on the one point of "showing him that you'd be fine without him", IMO, there seems to be a constant theme with "false recoveries" in that the BS, though needing to provide a "road map", often goes back to giving back some control to the WS.....that control of herself she so needed to gain during Plan B.
I do agree with your point...mine was more to emphasize the danger of moving too fast with any "positive" actions the WS may be displaying.
Esentially, this would be a brand new relationship...one that now, unfortunately, is one with lost innocence and unconditional trust. Doesn't mean it can't be "better than ever", but to get there is traveled with hard work and caution.....and time!
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(((((Kim)))))) YOU ARE AWESOME!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
aka-confused42
BS-45 me
WH-42
DS-14 & DD-12
together 21 yrs, married 18.5yrs
"I love you but not IN love with you" speech 6/3/04
D-Day 2/25/05; WH moved out 3/15/05 & back too soon 3/22/05...He left again 5/8/06
5/25/06 Plan B.....NC letter 6/18/06
Recovery finally began Jan 2007
We are IN love again!!!Sept 2007
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Kim, YOU DID GOOD! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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Our experience has been almost EXACTLY like Rachel's...
I agree with her 100%..
GREAT POST!!!
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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