Motivation is important; you may not agree with me, and that is okay. Differences in opinion are healthy

But the goal is not to impress or appeal to the WS, but to kill the affair. It really doesn't matter how a fogged out, insane WS views the BS; it is understood that anything that is done to interfere with the affair will not be taken kindly. That is ok. The BS should continue to expose until the affair is killed.

And I do realize you speak from the biased perspective of a FWW. The perspective that I am interested in is the MARRIAGE BUILDERS perspective.

Melody, I will ignore the name-calling approach because it does no good. I will, however, respond to the "biased" label. Any BS or WS is biased, as they operate from their own perspectives. Killing the A is not the only goal; figuring out what to do with the M is important. BS and WS must decipher his/her own motivations. the WS is not the only party capable of acting in his/her self interest

I too am interested in marriage building, but it is rather myopic to believe that there is always only one approach for all couples. I try to point out that perspective from one humble perspective among many

Although my H and I are recovering, I couldn't begin to believe my perspective is the only correct one

Well, I didn't call you a name. But the principles I am espousing here are MARRIAGE BUILDERS principles, not MelodyLane principles. You are simply giving your own very biased viewpoint, which CONTRADICT MB, on an issue in which you have very little experience or knowledge. Remember, this is Marriage Builders, and they are one of the most successul marital recovery programs in the world. So don't be so quick to dismiss tried and true principles. They have saved MANY marriages, after all.

As I said earlier, I do not dismiss the exposure component; I do not believe it works for every couple. It may work for some but may be destructive, if carried out with the wrong motivation, for others. I stand by that point and respectfully disagree with that particular principle.

Mel and Kim:

This sounds a whole lot like my FWH when he was in this phase. There has got to be a WS HANDBOOK somewhere that has this SCRIPT written down which THEY feel compelled to follow. Mel, you have been following this more closely than me. However, it sounds like he is CAKE-EATING to me. He is ON THE FENCE..not READY to end the affair... but WANTING TO..KNOWING THAT IT IS THE RIGHT AND NECESSARY THING for him to do..

Unfortunately, if Kim's H is like mine was, they continue to have "FEELINGS" towards the OW up until WITHDRAWAL is over..they remain in the fog for SEVERAL MONTHS..particularly if the affair has been ROMANTIC AND ADDICTIVE...

I see him as being concerned about the OW..wanting to end it NICELY..not quite READY to GIVE HER UP...wishing he could do this SLOWLY rather than..COLD TURKEY...

I liken it to the alcoholic saying.."I'm going to first move from hard liquor to beer...Will that be OK, honey? Aren't you happy that I have made this HUGE STEP towards abstinence?"

This is the phase during which Steve H. told me to KEEP IT SIMPLE during BRIEF CONTACTS. WH will try to stall. Kim's job is to not necessarily focus on the conditions but to repeat the MANTRA: "GET RID OF THE OW..HOW ARE YOU GOING TO DO THAT?"...basically giving him back the message that: "I know you are BSing me, WS; I'm staying DARK until you get SERIOUS about this and stop BSing me"....

In the end, Kim, he will respect you for this and he will know EXACTLY what you are saying. As Mel says, he is trying to PLAY you...and will respect you for not allowing him to do this. He will see you as more valuable and worthy AS YOU ARE....

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You can disagree all you want, but you are standing by a losing proposition. You can't argue with success. As much as you seem to dislike it, exposure is the ticket to success.

My thoughts EXACTLY! And I think he will come off that fence if she just holds out a little longer. Like you said, he KNOWS he has to give her up, but he is hoping that he might be able to keep it going a while longer if he can only get Kim to relieve him of his pain in Plan B.

Thanks for reading the notes and giving me your feedback. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Melody, I find it very sad that you are not able to see any viewpoint beyond one perspective. But I will hope for you that, at some point, you begin to understand that, in dealing with human beings, there is not always a one-size-fits-all approach. It is a disservice for those who would benefit from hearing varying opinions and experiences. My H and I are being successful in recovery without the type of exposure you advocate

sfjaj, I very much see your viewpoint. But I know what WORKS and know that you can't argue with success. Exposure is a tried and true method that is very effective. It is an important MB principle that can't be overlooked. Just because it wasn't neccessary in your situation does not mean it isn't in others.

I realize you are new to this forum, but you really can't argue with success.

We actually agree here! I said it may work in some cases, not in others. Yes

sfjaj --
I am also a FWW, and I agree wholeheartedly with Melody.

If you were successful without it, kudos to you. You must have been one of those repentant sort of WW's who very easily ended the affair.

Most are not like that, and the methods Melody is suggesting are part of an overall plan -- used in conjunction with many other strategies.

I think if you begin down the path of following the MB'ers program there are many "stopping" points where further strategies are unnecessary. (because the affair ends and reconciliation begins - like yours.) However there are many many others that need to use the full spectrum.

Also, you said that exposure is not attractive to a WS. Its not supposed to be. Its supposed to be painful.

Lexxxy, perhaps I haven't been clear enough. I didn't say it isn't appropriate in some cases. It may well be...It is another perspective. Exposure to the S is painful enough; what I was pointing out is that exposure to many more may actually make the WS flee

It all depends upon if healing in the M is more important or if revealing to people who do NOT HAVE TO know about others' private matters.

sfjaj, it is appropriate in cases where there is an ongoing affair or the risk is high for a resumption. The affair is a much greater threat to the marriage than exposure. If the WS "flees" because they can't face the consequences of the affair, then they were going to anyway. And the more PAINFUL, the better. It is MEANT to be painful.

No, you have this backwards. Healing will not take place unless the affair ends. Exposure ends the affair, which facilitates healing. And people do have to know if it helps kill the affair. Adultery is not a "private matter."

sfjaj -- just curious then why in this case you think further contact is unnecessary?

The way I see it, it isn't exposure at this point. OWH KNOWS his wife has been unfaithful. And you certainly can't include a VICTIM of infidelity as one of those that "do not have to know of others private matters."

He is very much directly impacted by this affair -- and he has a RIGHT to know the status of communications between his wife and her affair partner.

Can you explain further.

Lexxxy, you make a great point on that last point. Put that way, you are absolutely correct. Both BS do have a right to continue keeping one another posted on the state of the A. I guess I was arguing semantics with the word exposure. I was misinterpreting your point, imagining a continued dredging up of the A. It sounds as though you are referring to a type of continuous monitoring, which makes sense.