Melody Lane has not posted in two days. I hope it is not because of the shenanigans that went on on the karma thread. If that is the reason, I want to say the following to the people who ran her off.

To penaltykill, celt06, mvnforward, shinethrough and eldente:

Before you go about insulting someone like Mel, who has helped more people on MB than all of you combined, than any of you will ever do, you should think of the possible consequences of your action.

I find it very funny that some of you would now act contrite about the possibility that Lem may have left MB for good, yet discounting the role you played in this scenario. My point? Think long and hard before running off well respected members of MB that have been very helpful to others on this forum.

P.s. feel free to report me.

I think you will find there are going to be quite a few folks that have taken some time off the boards due to the debacle. We will miss their input greatly. Maybe when tempers cool and things settle, they will come back. I hope anyway.

Katie

I think it has more to do with the actions of a moderator singling her out.

Honestly, I cant say. I have not read enough on that thread to even know what is going on. However, it has been an overall tone to the boards that I have noticed of late. It seems there are snips and snipes in a lot of the threads.

I dont think this is generated towards any one single person. I think it is a reminder to us ALL to be courteous, respectful and kind to all here.

If this is true, than that moderator is very short sighted.

Wow. I really missed something here with all of my computer problems.

I have benefited tremendously from MelodyLane and LemonMan's posts. I hope they both come back soon.

They have their own style, and they mean well. Melody especially contributes so much of her time to help others.

I don't know where I would be without her.

Kim

Now that I have more information on the situation, I find it very sad and shameful that Tempest, a moderator, contributed to driving away Mel and Lem from MB.

A moderator is supposed to make MB a better place, not worse by offending its best contributors. I guess the TRUTH is worth less than APPEASEMENT on this board!

UVA,

I don't think the moderator singled anybody out - nor drove anybody away. I've been around here for a few years. The good guys almost always come back. I enjoy LemonMan and Mel's contributions - but if they were out of line - they will know it - and, being people of integrity, will admit it and atone for it. And if they weren't, they're sturdy folk and they'll bounce back. I haven't read the thread - but I did read what the mod posted. And I did not see it as being targeted at any individual.

-AD

Bigkahuna & UVA,

I can’t see where Tempest has singled anybody out or targeted any specific individual/thread. How I see it, his message was a general message to ALL members alike. The following paragraphs from Tempest’s posts make this very clear:

AND

uva,
How can you possibly think anything I said had anything to do with MEL taking a time out from these boards. I never said anything to her in that thread and we did not argue, period!
I sent her a personal email for which she thanked me in defence of her.
Where you got this idea is totatally beyond my comprehension.
all blessings,
Jerry

Did anybody even notice when the 'marriage terrorism' thread was deleted? The 'karma' thread was tame compared to that one. Pepperband hasn't posted in a week, and she's probably not the only one.


Tempest's point is valid, and needs to be repeated occasionally. We're all adults here, and should be treating each other respectfully, no matter how vehemently we disagree. It's easy to lose sight of that in the heat of discussion.

UVA,

Melody Lane WAS disrespecting others opinions. It was plain and simple. Just because she helped others does not entitle her to belittle others as if their opinions mean nothing.

If she can dish out criticism, then she should be a big enough person to take it. I called her out because she was
WRONG.

I think it is interesting that at one point ML was bragging on that very thread about how she "had a thick skin".


I for one, am going to defend others that come on here that sometimes the "so called" experts rip into, and then try hide behind the comment of "it isn't the truth that hurts, it is the affair".. That goes for her to.. IT isn't the truth that hurts, it was getting called out on her "holier than thou" atttitude. Matter of fact, the moderator did not single out anybody, so WE ALL should take heed....

This in no way takes away from how much she has helped people. She has helped many. She also hurt many people for no other reason than to prove her point and argue. That is not "helping". There is no reason for it, and she should have been called on it.


Just my opinion.

AD,

Yes, Tempest did single out Mel. She did so in what she wrote on the Karma thread itself and on what she wrote in the "whose opinion counts" thread. Anyone who knew the context of the karma thread should have been able to deduce the implications of Tempest’ posts. If someone can’t, well....

Moreover, Tempest privately e-mailed Melody and chastised her. I think that's bull when Mel was only standing for the truth.

Smidgen,

I don't think Tempest view is valid when Mel was only standing for the truth. It is important to be respectful of all members, but it is not true that one should respect all opinions. If I believe that gravity does not exist or that Bill Gates is a poor man, where "poor" is to be taken in its financial meaning, well these may be my opinions, but they are not only false, they are also stupid, given the evidence. If someone points out that these opinions are stupid, it does not mean that they are disrespecting me unless one assumes that whenever one refers to the truth value or sense-value (?) of a statement one also refers to the person who said it. But that last claim is clearly false.

Mel merely said that some of the statements advanced on the karma were stupid. I can't say I agree with that, even though I thought the statements in question were clearly false, but she had a right to that opinion. It did not mean that she was being disrespectful to those who held them.

Appeasement is not my forte and I don't ask anyone else to be like me. But I think it's an abomination when moderators of this site and other members of this site try to censor an individual because that person thinks an opinion is stupid. Not all opinions are equally valid. Some are clearly stupid. Everyone has a right to their opinions though, whatever that may mean. But that's as far as this goes.

Driving people like Mel, Lem, and now as you suggested Pepperband out of this site merely because some cannot handle the truth is a travesty. Each of these individuals has helped more people on MB than any of the people mentioned in my first post above. Newbies and old timers alike will lose out big time if none of them decides to return.

Shinethrough,

I don't recall, but if it is true that you did not address Mel directly or was condescending to her, I take back what I said as regards to you. I may have mixed up your interaction with top rope, which did rub me the wrong way, with one with Mel. However, as you and tope rope seem to have made up, I sincerely and respectfully apologize to you.

Keepmovingforward,

See my comments to Smidgen.

Furthermore, I think you went way over the board when you attacked Mel’s marriage and her time spent at MB. You know jack about her situation but felt free to insinuate and make outlandish comments about her personal marriage life. I thought you were extremely rude. And assuming you were right that Mel was being rude to others, your responses to her were also very rude and unwarranted, unless, of course, you believe that two wrongs make a right and it is true that all opinions are equally valid.

UVA, *why* are you trying to continue an argument from a thread that's been locked for days now? I don't have any argument with you, and yet in two posts you have referenced my username. I extended an olive branch to lemonman in his thread, as did celt.

But if you are going to keep it up, my H, penaltybox, is hurt that you forgot to include him in your list of offenders. He, too, disagreed. Are we not allowed to have differing opinions on this forum, particularly when it comes to our OWN situation?

Take care. And I mean that sincerely.

Advice here should be grounded in marriage builders PRINCIPLES

it is where we are all GUESTS of...

the most important advice on this board is CALL THE HARLEYS

this is getting more and more ridiculous by the second..

this is quickly becoming a no win situation...

if you dont like the Harleys method or plan...then this board perhaps is not for you...

it is what it is...and everyone is a guest...
with expectations to be familiar with the principles of the founders...

you dont have to agree with them..but as guests here you should mind your manners and realize where you are....and not lose sight of what the concept of this board is...

and we can have it..post after post debating the harley method...

but is sure is huge waste of cyber space....


Sure is a huge distraction from the mission of this forum..

surely is a shame....

if you dont like a poster dont read it..

ARK

"Advice here should be grounded in marriage builders PRINCIPLES" You are absolutely correct, however, this 'advice' cannot be DRIVEN down someone's throat (while at the very same time personally berating the poster) Does that help in any way to get them to follow Harley's methods?

The reason I brought the issue up is because of the aftermath that ensued. The fact that Mel, Lem and possibly Pep have disappeared is a big deal to me. As aforesaid, current and future members of MB will suffer for this if they don’t return.

And please do not use the straw man that my point is about the right to disagree. My points are:

1. Not all opinions are valid

2. Some are downright stupid.

3. One should be able to say that an opinion is stupid.

4. If one does (3), it does not mean that he or she is being disrespectful to those who have that opinion.

5. One should be careful before reporting members to the moderators or act so as to drive out members from this board, especially those members who are very helpful to others.

6. Driving out members like Mel, Lem, and Pep (?) out of MB have real life consequences.

a. Many who otherwise would get help from them will not have that chance.

7. And Truth, not APPEASEMENT, should be the prime value of MB or any other set of beliefs that purports to reflect the “truth”.

Take care also.

you are correct it can not be driven down anyones throat..

just as no one can be manipulated without giving their own consent..

if you feel its being driven down YOUR throat...

you dont like the message
you dont like the messenger..

whatever it is you dont like..
then dont heed it
dont read it after that....

it is not your job to censor how someone phrases their OPINIONS...

it is infact a dangerous slippery slope on which one treads...


each person can choose to or choose NOT to read...

and all these silly silly terms...
veterans...
oldies...

is very silly...

do you think those people themselves choose such a silly term...
or is it being THRUST upon and then turned against them as a weapon...


ARK

Celt,

.

That’s an empirical claim. How do you know this? Do you have any evidence? Did you do some empirical research on it? Then again since all opinions are equally valid, who needs evidence when a mere opinion will do? And Even if it’s true do you know the real reasons why they left? Could it be that it is because some or all of them could not handle the truth? So even if we assume Mel caused some people to leave MB, unless you know the reason(s) they left, you cannot blame Mel for it. (‘Reason’ here does not refer to what the people who may have left thought were the reasons they left, but to the actual causal connectors that made them leave, which may indeed include what they thought.)

Condescending to you seems to be whatever does not appease another member. I think that is false and may be one of main areas where we disagree.