well I went and talked to an attorney. He told me I have to file right away. Im in the drivers seat right now and if I want to do this I have to do it soon. I want to but at the same time I want to give her more time. why? so she can break my heart some more?? I don't really know if this stayin at her friends house is going to make her realize anything besides that she likes being single and going out with her friends all the time. Course I took the checkbook and her debit card and gave her $40 cash and told her it was for gas and she better be careful how much of it she spends on beer. She texted me the morning to see how punky was and how she slept and I just wrote back good. not good.
then she wrote did you atleast get some sleep me no. I'm tryin to us the one word sentences ya know. but then she keeps written me like about is she suppose to get her own checking account. and asking me what I think she should make her friend for supper for lettin her stay there. Am I suppose to talk to her. I asked her if she would consider living in a effiecency apartment or a motel for awhile so she can actually be by herslf. she said she is fine with her friend. I just don't see this workin.
I almost to the point to where I don't even give a rats you know what anymore. I cant even get myself to write a plan B letter.

I still care about her alot and I think about her all the time. Why does this seem like its so easy for her to do? Im just so exhausted trying to keep this up I don't know if I can do it.

I called her parents and told them what I did the other night and once again WW called and told me that that wasn't my place to be tellin her parents. I said yes it is because they asked me to keep them informed on what is going on and I respect them so that is why I called them.

She got pretty quiet after that.

I also asked her today after she said she wants to be alone if she could atleast try not to see him. she said okay. I know like it will happen anyway. is there a chance she will want me back yeah 1 in a million. Just don't see it happenin. don't know.

thanks again.

Well, I think you need to stick to the MB plan a little more. You've got a lot of work to do. Plan A needs to go on for quite a bit longer.

LA gives great advice, but I disagree here. It is waaaay too early for Plan B.

WA, you have to know that you are one of the good guys, and there aren't that many around. You have been trying to save the marriage, and taking care of your daughter through all of this. If your wife continues on her path, she is losing a good man.

But you are very early to do a Plan B. I would consult with an attorney, and do what you need to do to protect your daughter and finances. But I don't think I would give up on the marriage just yet.

I agree with believer in another instance, but here's what see with you, WA

You have to file right away for you to secure what you need during a seperation. You don't choose to do that, but give her more time.

You want the A to end, but you won't expose to OM's work?

Her work?

I'm still stumped. And no, I guess Plan B wouldn't work, either, because you'll go back and forth...

No instant cures, and I think you know that. You fall into way too much tit for tat and haven't truly seperated who you are from what she does.

I hear you attempting to control her..."Well, you said you wanted to see life on your own...how about a motel or efficiency apt?" Leave it. She chooses. That IS life. No more suggestions or cajoling...or judgments. Listen and repeat. Do not ask for no contact...she knows. Do not ask for stuff and hear the lies. You're inviting them. You did the right thing, I think and let her know you knew she was going to OM's...that lies don't obscure the truth of her actions.

Do not allow yourself to say stuff you both know. Respect she knows it. It was said or done.

Listen to believer and make a plan to protect, secure and Plan A...if you choose. Please know you're choosing, even inaction, by not sticking with a plan.

LA

Thanks believer and LA

Exposure. Yes I've exposed this all over again now. OM lost his job b/c he was in jail. Who cares the loser worked at a bar anyway. The owner probably involved with someone too. I know bad attitude. sorry. just my thoughts. All his roomates know his mom knows his sister knows. I think it kinda pist his sister off the other night I was ringin the doorbell at 4 am. Hopefully she said something to OM but who knows. Im dealin with some real gems here.

WW she just seems to be having a blast in her new freedom. It really really pisses me off!! Im sorry but it does! How can she sit there and act like this is so great and then turn around and accuse me for not caring about her b/c I through her out of her own house! Well What did you expect ya know! Man why can't they get it!! Do they just leave ther brains lay somewhere one day and start doing crap like this without even tryin to figure out where there brain is first??!!

All I think I did was get her on with the life she has wanted the past 5 years. OK fine go have fun!. I just want to say it to her. Atleast she doesn't have to go home and sit there and stare at the wall and all you do is wonder about your spouse. No not her. Lets get spiffed up and go out on the town with or girlfriends then take someone home!!! AAAAAHAHAHHHHH. Why don't I just do that!! Ya know why. My concence would kill me in less than an hour that why. I have morals. these people have none.

Im done askin questions. Im done talkin. All Im gonna do is take care of my girls and raise them the best that I know how on my own.

You wanted to see the list that I wrote "IF" she decides she wants to come back home. Well here is a rough draft.
I wrote it shortly after I took her stuff to OMs house so bear with me Im sure I should change oh probably everything. but anyway here it be

W-Im glad you decided you want to try to work on our marriage. I really feel right now I have to protect my heart. I've come up with a short list of things that have to be done before I can give you another chance. W deep down inside I love you. I want to trust you. I cant though. If you really want us again you will strive to earn my trust back. I know you will succeed if you want it. You've always gone after the things you wanted out of life. I hope this doesn't sound like this is all your fault. Its not. We are both to blame for not being there to listen to hold or whatever it was that we needed from eachother. Im working on mine. I want to be a better listener a better dad a better friend and most of all a better husband. I want to work this out too. In order for it to work we both have to give eachother 200%. Marriage isn't easy, Its a full time commitment to not disrespect, be rude to eachother and most importantly we have to be completely honest with each other. I'll give you more than 200%. I promise. I want us and our family back together. I love you WA

--you will go to individual counsiling then marriage counseling
-- you will go get help for your drinking
-- you will have a drug and std test taken
-- I will be in charge of all finances until I see fit
--You will write a no contact letter to OM, OMs mom and sister that is approved by me.
-- we will not go out unless it is together.
--you are to never make any contact whatsoever or for whatever reason w/OM or his family. If you do you will tell me immediatly.
-- you will stop lieing, being disrezpectful, and rude to other people and ecspeacially our families.
-- you will start going back to church
--we will do more together as a family
--we will take more time away from the kids for us time.



I know I know I probably shouldn't say you will. But I was mad when I wrote this. You guys will be able to help me come up with better wording that that Im sure.

anyway about how long could she stay at her friends place. you think it will not be as much fun soon or isn't that like kinda getting her cake too. I don't know. I know Im going to probably give her a couple more weeks unless I catch her with OM again then I think Im just going to go ahead with servin her.

Guess we just have to wait and see. Thanks again for your help guys. Very much apprieciated!

You are doing fine. You are a good father, and will be very blessed for that. I'm hoping that your wife gets her stuff together, but in the meantime, you will need to take care of yourself. Please do that.

I have no doubt that if the marriage ends, you will be snapped up by some lucky woman.

Oh, WA...please don't apologize for your feelings. They're yours. Nobody is judging. Believer is absolutely right. Recognize you are doing fine...feelings and all. You're blessed with precious daughters and morals. You aren't lost, though you may feel that way. You have a compass. You pay attention to it.

Now to the Plan B letter...

"W,

I believe I have to protect my heart. I love you and would like nothing more than to grow old with you. My feelings of love for you are being replaced by anger, resentment, pain and sorrow. I am not being respected as your husband, the man you vowed for better or for worse. As long as you are in contact with OM, you are in an affair. I know you are not respecting our daughter by your choices.

Beginning today, I will no longer have contact with you. No phone calls, emails or communication of any kind. I will not listen to messages you leave because I cannot listen to your voice without losing more love. I cannot read your words nor see your face without the same reaction. __________ is willing to communicate only bare information regarding pumkin and visitation.

I've learned a lot in the last few months, about myself and about my beliefs. I know know love comes back...so in an effort to have some left for our future, if you choose to return and rebuild our marriage, I've come up with what I need for us to start on the road to a really fulfilling and loving marriage:


--To demonstrate your commitment to working on our marriage, you write a No Contact letter to OM, his mother and sister, which I read and approve of and we mail together as a symbol of our commitment to each other and respect to our marriage.

--For a set amount of time, you commit to being transparent...with nothing to hide from me, nor I from you, about your whereabouts...this could be calls at any time from me to you, and might feel like checking in and not trusting you...it will be. My trust and faith have been shattered and I am very much afraid. This will be my problem, but I need your patience and willingness to be transparent about no contact and no more affairs.

--Commit to reporting any contact with OM or his family in any way, even just a sighting. This will reassure me of your commitment to openness and honesty and help me to regain my complete trust in you. This is a very important boundary of mine. If you violate it and not tell me, so not to hurt me or for whatever reason, I will then file for custody and seperation. It is the lying by omission...the not telling that kills me. You were my best friend and my world. My best friend didn't lie to me. I'm handling this inside myself and know it will get better.

--Have two sessions of individual counseling under your belt before you move back in and agree to go with me to marriage counseling--there's a lot we can learn together.

--Already have attended eight AA meetings and found a group you want to continue with and ask for a sponsor.

--Go with me to be tested for drugs and std's

--Trust me to manage our finances and consider your requests and input equally with my own. Later, we will share this responsibility and be accountable for our own spending. I would like our marriage to be a true partnership.

W deep down inside I love you. I want to trust you. If you really want us again you will strive to earn my trust back. I know you will succeed if you want it. You've always gone after the things you wanted out of life.

I hope this doesn't sound like this is all your fault. It's not. We are in this together, each with our parts. I'm working on mine. I commit to you to be a better listener, best friend and most of all a better husband. I want to work this out, too. I believe we can do it.

I now believe marriage isn't easy--it's a full-time commitment to respect, accept, not judge and most importantly, be completely open and honest with each other about our thoughts and feelings to stay connected.

I'll give you more than 200%. I promise. I want us and our family back together. I love you WA



'k, that's my version for you, WA.

I'm more wordy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Keep your eyes on the prize and know that what you have is right now...you can endure, even thrive, in right now. Who will be your third party? You have to insert a trusted name in that blank underline...someone who won't hand you rumors or assumptions that may do as much injury as contact with your wife.

You do get that filing would be a good way to do this legally...right? Doesn't mean divorce. Means that she doesn't call the cops because you won't let her in to see pumkin at 3am in the morning, claiming you locked her out of the house.

Stuff gets messy when you have no papers to show she is choosing to live elsewhere.

With you...and know I'm leaving stuff out...but I can't stop thinking about the relief and love you'll feel inside knowing you're doing this FOR your marriage and not in revenge. Your intent will determine the outcome, so be sure and true to it, 'k? Actions may look the same, but the intent matters here.

(And not that, "I didn't intend to hurt you" crap kind of intentions. Honorable intentions...)

Hugs...and thanks for venting here!

LA

well this has been one of the longest weeks of my life. Im alone. well not completely i have my little pumkin. But I don't have someone to talk to or even hold anymore. I really hate it. I hate being alone like this. All I do is think about her. I don't want to think about her anymore.

OM spent the night at her new place last night. Im just so mad I really don't know if I could ever forgive her if she came back to me. Everytime I catch her with him she tells me its over between them and it is for like three days and then they get back together. Im just so sick of it. It will never end.

Just like today she told me "you are right on one thing I do need to tell him that I have to be alone. Im sorry I did what i did. But I need you to stop following me and trying to get me back. Your just harming out friendship if anything. I know that you are desperate to get back to the way things were but that is never going to happen. I just don't want to lose your friendship and I don't want this to get ugly. Even though according to your messages it already has gotten to that point. I cant wait to see pumkin tonight. She is really the only thing that matters to me. I love that girl more than anything.she is the one thing that keeps me going everyday. I miss her like crazy. Ill see all of you later. I just needed to get some things off my chest and you said you would listen so thanks. bye.:)

Some parts of what she wrote me I understand other parts are just plain a__ BS.!! Ya know. like she is the most important thing in my life! Why did she get home yesterday at 1 she didn't go get her from daycare if she misses her soo much. Instead her friend wanted to play cards ya see. Whats most important in her life yeah thats what I thought her damn friends!!! Not to mention today she called in sick to work. Hangover. she seemed fine when she came to the house for an hour to see her daughter. She just couldn't wait to get her in bed so she could leave. I don't know.
I think I should do like she says and throw in the towel. I get nothing but heartaches anymore.

Tomorrow she said she wanted to go with b/c I told her I was takin the girls to one of the game places tomorrow just to have some fun and something different once. We'll see if she can get out of bed though.!

Thanks LA for the advice on the letter. I think not getting to talk or text her would kill me more than it would her. I don't know what Im going to do yet. I talked to a couple different attorneys this week so I think I might just go ahead with the one. Not sure yet. But closer to doin that than to keep tryin right now. Maybe she'll change my mind tomorrow!

Thanks again eveeryone

Time for the Plan B pep talk...

First, double check your options. Did you expose to everyone? Are you receiving love and support from friends and family? Are you closeting yourself or reaching out?

Next, you are already jumping into hatred...which is understandable. Lies tear the fabric of our souls. However...you are giving yourself no consequence to your own boundary of lying. You are saying you can't go dark and you can't stay light.

You are doing this, not her, not anyone else.

You are listening and believing her lies...because you are arguing them to yourself. She is in a massive web of deceit within herself...everything she said she WISHED was true, but it isn't. No argument, proof, nothing needed. Her choices belie her words. You don't have to, 'k?

I don't want you to go dark to kill her. Intent matters. I want you to go dark so that you find within you a lot of stuff you can't get to with her obsessing your thoughts. She's not doing it--you are. You're slipping in your self-control and I'm here to hand you back. Here, meet WA...he's got a lot of stuff inside him, gold and stone, and it is time to sort it through. He is worth obsessing about.

You are in control of you...she can't change your mind. She is caking eating...and it is deadly poison to you.

Has to stop for pumkin's sake and your own.

You are worth boundaries. You make just boundaries. You are valuable to many and PRICELESS to yourself.

You are putting your life in the hands of a monster right now. You are smarter than that. Embrace the belief that your WW is a monster and your wife is the one you love. Make it a mantra. We do not believe WW's...we don't do monsters.

We go dark with prayers and a lot of internal work, and break our addiction to someone who doesn't exist. We work our way through our own stuff and come to love an incredibly human wife later on.

We stay strong with our minds...not allowing whatifs, ifonly's or wishes to enter them. Our minds become sacred ground, sharp, focused, concentrating on nurturing ourselves.

Apparently, I've crawled on in from my pluralized pronouns.

::::

You wanna talk an obsessive person? You're with one right now.

We can do this, WA. It's not over until a heavy judge knocks wood against wood. That's along time off.

Begin with the serving of the seperation papers, which require her to pay maintenance (because you've documented her neglect), with you in the home. Serve the plan B letter by certified mail return receipt.

Get that third party on board.

Call all your family for support and love as you try to save your marriage by having no contact at all...do not be there when pumkin gets picked up. Do not be there when she gets dropped off...do not answer a single call...your third party will be willing to take any emergencies and contact you immediately.

Change your numbers and email. No contact.

You will not die. You are not getting your ENs met by your WW and haven't for awhile. You can get conversation, attention, acceptance, affection and respect here and from your friends. Think of each person you know and how they individually meet a need. Schedule them to come over, be part of your family for now, and a witness/buffer between you and any attempts by WW to break Plan B.

Your family will be happy to aid you...lean on them, know they are there for you but you have to actively tell them what you need. Share your burden, WA. You're not throwing in the towel, you are going to stand to your code and do the right thing.

There's more, but I'm tired and flailing around now, I think.

There are play groups and church groups out there, WA. Begin to find ways to be with pumkin but not alone in the house so much. There are gyms with pools and hot tubs...time for serious self care.

The more tired you get your mind, the better your soul can heal. Use your physical/emotional connection to your best advantage. Gyms have cool play care...you won't be neglecting pumkin. And you can play in the pool with her.

Be creative and generous to yourself now. All that you've done for WW can be done for you, by you.

You may find that you love the relief from the heartache, the stabs, the lost and confused you...you won't know until you get there...and you need to act now. Make next Friday a deadline, if you can, 'k?

You are welcome and worthy. You're stronger, deeper and more loving than you know for continuing to try to save your marriage, 'k?

You can do this

LA

I think it is early to be thinking about Plan B. It is completely miserable going through all of this at first. But your wife is acting very typically.

I have reexposed to everyone. I have the support of family and loved ones yes. I still don't think I am ready for plan B. She told me today that she texted him and told him she needed to be alone and he texted her and said aleast you know what you want finally.

I just told her I was proud of her for taking the initiative and telling him and that I was proud of her. I also said now is the time to take to yourself and figure you out out and figure out what and where you want to go.
Know if you need anything I'll be here for awhile yet.

I've been in this little area befroe where she told him this and a few days later they were back together. I know I shouldn't give her another chance to do this to me but I'm going to. I'm not ready for plan B yet. Although I have set a date. So right know I'm going to stick to plan A.

LA you had alot of great suggestions for my plan B letter thank you. Don't be upset that Im not going into B yet. I know your not your just lookin out for me. I trust you know how to deal with this better than i for you've been through it. Thanks.

I really have to take the time and worry about myself huh. your right I ask her questions to just to here her lie and then I let it get to me. I know the truth but I just want to see of she tells me the truth. I just have to stop asking those questions and move on. Its hard.

I feel really good about me today. I had a decent weekend so far. I took my girls to chuckie cheese yesterday and told the WW we were going and she said she wanted to go with. so we spent a couple hours there. was kinda nice. We came back to the house and W stayed for a little while then went back to friends apt. She has pumkin today.

Im just trying to be the man I want to be the rest of my life and I want her to see that. I guess eventually she maybe will.

Thanks

Hey, I won't be upset with your choices. I haven't been through Plan B. worthatry (WAT) and mortarman are your best sources for it.

I'm stumbling right along with you.

Glad you had a good weekend. And that you didn't put your hopes up high on her last text msg.

With you in whatever you choose,

LA

Post deleted by Cherished

Expect her to go back and forth with the other man. That is usually what happens. You continue with a good, rock solid Plan A. Don't expect much out of her, just keep making improvements in your life.

Whereranswers,

Forgive me for not reading all the posts completely, life is busy, gotta get the kids off to school in the AM and me into work.

I see you’ve set a definitive date for plan B….good, stick with it and spend the interim on becoming a better partner, not enabling the affair and getting all your ducks in a row for plan B.

Become familiar with the family/custody laws in your jurisdiction and retain an attorney to answer your questions and help you getting custody of your child and/or a restraining order against this “wonderful” human being that occasionally gets free room and board via the state penal system. BTW no SF with the WW. Penitentiaries are rife with intravenous drug abusers and a variety of contagious blood borne and sexually transmittable diseases. Get a background check done on this piece of phlegm to bolster whatever legal action is required to protect you and your children from him.

Write a final version of the Plan B letter well in advance to be vetted here under a different thread with a title that indicates it contains a Plan B letter for input. I would not put in the requirements for her return other than the NC with the aforementioned phlegm. Those requirements are best negotiated if and when she hits bottom and crawls back.

Protect your assets and speak to your lawyer about ensuring she fulfils her financial obligations should this go to a separation. Inquire about a legal separation to coincide with the Plan B. These documents legally compel the parties to comply with a parenting arrangement as well as financial obligations. I cannot stress enough how you need to educate yourself regarding the local laws that apply to this matter. A good lawyer is invaluable. Geeeez….I never thought I would use “good” and “lawyer” in the same sentence. However…….

I also would dispel any myths she may have that you will be good friends after a divorce should it occur. You’re going to take your child to parks together? Riiiiiiiiight.

Good luck.

BTW….my divorce will be final this Thurs……I went through the most horrific period of my life 2 years ago and guess what? I’m OK….heck…..I’m happy! You will be too one day, whatever happens. Trust me

Thanks all for your suggestions and concerns. I have been througha custody battle once already so I want to say I know the ropes. I have been consulting a lawyer and he tod me that as long as Im in the drivers seat as far as staying at the house and keeping the little one here with me Im in the best position to get custody. He also said to try as long as I want but he thinks I should go ahead and file. I guess why wouldn't he. He wants to get paid Huh.!

Well WW is going back to her moms this weekend for her grandmas birthday. She told me tonight she doesn't think she wants me to go with. I just said that I would like to. She said we are seperated what part of that don't you understand?

I just want to say how much longer are you going to f-ing drag me along while you try to figure out what the He!! it is you want out of life Wake up would ya!!!

I would like to say that I could take her back and forgive her. But I don't honestly know with everyday that passes. I want things to work in my heart but Im begining to think I should move on with my baby. I cant eat sleep you know the whole deal.

She has only seen her daughter for 30 min since sunday. I can't believe it. She came over last night because her back hurt. So The nice guy that I am I massaged it for over an hour after pumkin was alseep. I wanted so much to talk about us and what she wanted but I just talked about stuff instead. Then when she left she wouldn't even give me a hug or a kiss!! how rude. She did text me later on and thanked me. so I guess she maybe did appreciate it alittle bit.

what to do. sit here and think about her I guess. It kinda sucks cause punky is at that okward age to take her anywhere she falls asleep right as we get there or she just wants to be a pain in the britches for daddy.

Does she feel guilty at all. This just seems to not bother her one bit and I don't understand. I know I don't want to focus on her and I don't to a point you know. It just seems whenever I talk to her she sounds so happy and chipper or she is just a.. rippin mad. I don't understand?

What custody battle have you been through?

Hiya, WA!

Eatin', sleepin' problems...why? Not being flip here...I don't assume your reasons and you don't assume mine, correct?

You're assuming your WW is not in pain from guilt, shame, frustration and fear. Why do you assume that? Still reading her, judging her words, tone, tilt of the head? Why?

Are you keeping a journal of her actions in regards to pumkin? How much time, daily, concern and questions? Spend your time recording because the pain interferes with memory...we get impressions through it, not facts. Journals are better. You look at the reality of facts, not opinions or feelings. Helps.

You chose to massage her back. Your choice to do. She can only ask. Do not resent your choices. They are yours. Same with resentment...you create it in yourself from your expectations. Respect yourself more and your human limitations. "I desire to rub your back. It is comforting, our usual pattern, part I am really missing about our marriage. I can't do that tonight because I would choose to resent you for not working on our marriage. I would think if I choose to, that I would be good enough to use but not to recover with. It is my issue and I'm choosing to not create that resentment."

That doesn't attack, tear down, or lovebust. Shares truth, intimately, of your thoughts and feelings. Doesn't reject.

She might feel rejected, played with, manipulated or denied...that doesn't mean you're doing that. Remember we will see in others that which we are doing to ourselves. God's message system. Don't make your choices based on her response...but yours, 'k?

Man, am I still a nagging control freak trying to stop your pain or what?

I'm beginning to wonder about myself.

::

You choose to make yourself eat...prepare soup, stand there, stir...don't nuke. Feel the motion of stirring, heating, deep breaths and an eye to your posture (how you hold yourself is a deep belief about your own image...and holding yourself different can give a person a sense of affection); you can create mantras that say, "I am good at taking care of myself and my family. I care about myself. I am lovable and worth effort and the choices I make."

I dunno...stuff like that. All truths, btw. Better to stay conscious of them. Same for sleep. Get a workout in (however you can) once pumkin is asleep, take a hot shower and the sleep might come along with the stress relief. Any input, instead of output, will add to your stress, even if it looks like escape (tv, books, etc.).

You are not being rejected. Respect that another person can feel lost, angry, confused and believe that if is your fault, not their's, then the solution is replacing you. Like a child, quick, easy, fastest way out of pain...and not reality. You own your perspective and how you choose to think...please don't pick the most destructive one, 'k?

In your corner, kickin' your tushy...my perspective on support is a little odd, ya think?

LA

(LOL..had to edit...having a bad pronoun possessive day...and realized I'd signed my post "WA" instead of LA...gee, am I relating TOO much ya think? Thank you CGU for posting so my attention came back here.

that was really good, LA!

WA< my baby is 14 months too! So proud of you for taking care of punkin by yourself! SO strong! My WH would never make it with our 2!

wow what a weekend!! Im trying to not get over excited but I went with WW and pumkin to MIL to a birthday party. We spent the whole weekend together. She even let me cuddle with her. This is the first time in a long time Ive been able to lets say catch my breath and clear my head again. Maybe its cause I knew where she was and who she was with. I know Im suppose to try not to worry about that but its hard not to while your laying in bed all alone.

She told me the only reason she wanted me to go was incase the weather got bad. Her choice to use that as an excuse. But come to find out i think the real reason was so she didn't have to explain to her extended family where I was. None of them know what is going on and even the MIL told me they don't know anything and that still wont know anything after the weekend is over. I don't need my mother to have a heart attack. Its already given me ulcers.
That really kinda hurt me. so I looked at her and said MIL i understand you are in pain and maybe embarrassed about this whole situation but at the same time if someone ask me something b/c they heard something Im going to tell the truth. Thats not your fault or mine, Always being honest and telling people how I feel are a couple of the biggest things I have to work on to become the man I want to be and if you don't respect that Im sorry, it is how I feel.
She just kinda looked at me with a face you could read like a book. I think it said something like how dare you tell your MIL something like that.
She then said well you do what you have to do. I know you want your marriage to work out and I do too. just please don't say anything unless someone ask you.
I said you have my word.

So no one knew so no one asked. But anyway the WW was pretty civil all weekend.

The first custody case I had was with my oldest daughter.
awhile back.

I do keep a journal everyday. One thing I learned in my first custody case. Your right you do have to do it every day or you do just forget the truth. some days your so angry you just can't think. I dont know if I should have done it but late last week I read through it. Man did it ever make me mad. I don't think Ill do that again. just reminded me of everything ya know.

As she left tonight she said now leave me alone ok. I said I would try. I also told her the other day that I really feel like Im giving myself false hope about us everytime we go do something together so I don't know if we should do anything together anymore unless we decide to work on our marriage. She just said well we can still be friends. I don't want to lose your friendship. I said I just feel like if we are good enough to be friends that we would be good enough to work on our marriage. Just the way I feel ya know?
She replied yeah I can see that.

So who knows. Its just so hard to not want to give her a hug and a kiss and call her and talk to her and this and that. I want to start our marriage over. I just pray she decides she wants to too.

Well thanks again everyone and I look forward to hearing from y'all again!!

((((WA!!)))

Got an idea...keep two journals. One for the day to day "this happened" and one as an anger journal. Write your anger down, look at it and let it look at you. After a few days, re-read THAT one (not the other one) and see where your anger is coming from, what information it is handing you and see how you feel, 'k?

I applaud your bravery in telling your MIL about your new commitment to O&H. You did it respectfully. When she asked you for your silence unless asked, know you could have said, "MIL, I believe covering for an affair encourages it, feeds it and will destroy our marriage." You didn't have to say you gave your word to do that...you could have done exactly what you did without that. Your beliefs are important and MIL's choices of action are important, too. One you have control over, the other you don't. Respectful is truthful. You feed your own anger when you cross your own boundaries.

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You know that. Is it true that you would stop doing things with your WW to save yourself pain? Would it save you pain? Or do you get your needs met a short time, a few lovebank deposits, and those see you through the pain that is?

Way to go on the good friends routine. Excellent.

I had the same mindset with my WH about friends after divorce as your WW. I told him that I couldn't see me without him in my life. I was addicted. Plain. Simple. Awful. However, when our MC said, "When you're in an affair, you are an enemy to your marriage. That precludes friendship." Wow. Really reinforced how to affair proof your marriage...when we want to force our pain onto our partner, we don't because we honor the marriage...even when we don't feel like honoring our partner.

Just a thought.

You give me a lot of those. And I got a pumkin dose tonight...my middle son has a half sister who has a 19-month-old little girl. She looks like the darling from "Monsters, Inc." We had a family bday dinner out and they attended. Her preciousness alone got me back to what you're doing and why. Then I watched her and knew what kind of impact divorce has...her mother and father aren't together, there's a boyfriend...no marriage anywhere, and this little girl sits quietly, not asking for attention, closed off in her world, not even bonding with her grandmother who has cared for her a lot, with familiarity, and she's constantly prepared for her mother to walk out a door and not come back. She self comforts with a thumb in crisis (her mom went out to warm up the car), won't be held and looks fearfully around. Stands still and watchful. When her mother returns, she shakes herself off and walks out, only allowing her mother's hand in hers, as if nothing happened.

Of course, I raised boys. Attention demanding, aggressive and needy sons. Very different. What do I know?

Children are worth our best selves.

LA