Hello MB's,
It's been awhile since I've posted but I'm back for more guidance and direction. Separated from WH now formally, for about 6 months. Before that, we spent last summer apart. His EA w/his coworker turned to a PA last May. Since then, he's been in NC with me. I guess a 'dark' period, while he moves on and gets comfortable with me not being in his life. You can read my previous threads for the full story. But my confusion is this: I do not want the D. I truly feel that we could recover from all of this, but he's getting in deeper with the coworker.

It's weird, I don't know if she even should be called the OW at this point, as he's more or less considered me 'dead' to him over the past year. We do not have a legal SA. Nothing is in place. All I do know, is when we do talk I hear the fog talk. The 'you were the worst wife ever' and 'we never should have been married' and 'we dont' like each other' and on and on and on. I still know him well, maybe not his daily routine and feelings, but after our last conversation I could still hear all the old emotions. Calling me dear, darling, sweetheart. Also telling me he doesn't know if he is making the right or wrong decision, just doing it. (OW is happy, it's what she always wanted). SHe told him she'd be ok even if he decided to work things out with me (this was years ago while they were also working together, as they are yet today). She has filled his EN's for years.

I want to continue Plan A. He's in plan D, again, with nothing filed, just a lawyer in the back pocket and her winning him over with his every EN, encouraging the D <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> . I know he did not come to this 'D' decision on his own. He has been with her the whole time, every time he told me he was trying to make up his mind what he wanted, she was there, she is there. SHe always has been there.

He's trying to just let-go, getting more comfortable with her being his 'choice' and the way to go. I really want to work at this. And if there's any chance, I want to take it and make the most of it. I've read Surviving an Affair, and re-read over and over Plan A & B. I'm struggling with Plan A'ing, while he's removed me from his life. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> This is hard, guess I'm having a difficult day. Oddly, I am somewhat reserved in what I post too, I think my WH is still lurking here.

Thanks for all advice received in other postings....this site has been a blessing in disguise.

have a good weekend!
-sad

sad.....

I wanted to point you to the post by ark...."BS be still...."

It is a really good post for anyone who is in Plan A, but can really be applied for anyone, in any stage of their M.

Doing Plan A when the WS is far removed from your life is not easy but still can be done. Plan A at the end is about you! You give without expecting anything back. So, you can always send a card (just to say hello)......etc....


Let me say that that knowing what you want is a hard part. I for long did not know what I wanted, and I had a hard time with Plan A. I tried Plan A as long as I could. At some point I found that I did not wish to do it anymore. I did not go to Plan B.....maybe that is seen as a problem by some, but I got to a point where I accepted that the M was over.

MB is great if you want to fight for the M. As long as you have the spirit to fight you do that. It sounds like you do. If I was you, I would give Plan A a chance, do it for several months, and see how you feel down the road.

All the best to you.....

Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hmmm... I am surprised that your H has not filed for D by this time since OW clearly is encouraging him in this direction. I was in a similar spot when my WH was involved with a single coworker- she pressured him daily to divorce me and he did file- but that seemed to be the crisis that woke him up and made him re-think what he was doing. I too was still doing Plan A at this point even though he had moved out and into her place. He came by several nights a wk to see our kids and I let him eat dinner and made small talk with him. Do you think your H is stalling due to financial reasons? I know this was a factor in my situation- we had just bought a big new house and had high overhead that would have left him with very little to live on. I think a crisis could help shake up your situation for the better even if it doesn't appear to be helping at first. Take care- lifeismessy

I am sorry for the pain you are going through. Your story is very long and heartbreaking.

I went back and read your Husbands posts. It hurts to do so because he loved you so much and in my mind he was a martyr to stay in the marriage this long. Gosh you treated him with such disrespect that it is unreal.

You were leading a double life and were actually living with the OM in another city. You did this for years after he discovered your affair. You would not let your H come near you in the other city and lied about everything to him. And yet he still loved you! You then continued for years to cheat on him and live with the OM and then you had another affair with another OM.

I think I read where you were talking to your husband about having children at the same time you were looking at wedding rings with the OM. Your husband was trying to work things out and you were looking at wedding rings to marry your OM?

My point is that I think you should let your H go. You cheated so long and were living a double life for so long I can’t fathom the pain you caused him. You should go into counseling and try and find out why you did what you did. Maybe you can start a new life with a new man and be faithful to him. I honestly believe your H would be far better off to find someone else.

I know what I say hurts and seems painful but I just can’t imagine your H wanting to be with you after I read your story. I think you need a new start also. Marriage is difficult when spouses do not have to deal with an affair. Something like this makes life almost unbearable. It just seems like you only want him because he is moving on with his life. I filed for D right away on my wife but your H had far more turmoil in his life and desperately tried to reach you.

Can you answer me one question? Why do you want to be with him? He was not good enough as a husband for all of those years why do you want him now???

I know how much pain I caused my H. I am still human, and humans do err. I have gone to IC, for a few months now, and have come quite a ways from where I was even in late summer of last year. I believe that people are capable of realizing their mistakes and seeing the hurt and pain that they've caused others to feel. I am not comfortable with any of what I did. It was wrong, and I have apologized to my H and my ILs and my own family and many friends for what I did.

I continue to ask for higher forgiveness and strength for those poor choices. I cannot sit and make excuses for what I chose to do, nor will I. There are no excuses.

I am hurt now, yes, as I he left behind his own written words, telling me of his own EA with the OW for years. While we were in false recovery, I think we both knew neither of us were fully committed to a real recovery. With all errors aside, there was something very deeply rooted between us. And he still acknowledges that. I think people are capable of forgivenss, and seing others for who they truly are. When you put aside the hurt and anger, people are amazing. Truly amazing. I know all those wonderful things that I loved about my H before I tore us apart, is still there. I came through an unforgiving fog. Maybe its' a normal human behavior, to want to nurture what you know you hurt. Unless you're happy staying in a state of anger and resentment. I see so much further beyond that now.

You mentioned I should move on with someone else. The one thing I have thanked my WH for is this separation. Because I have come to love myself again, something I have not felt for a long time. I can be a happy person, on my own, without having someone else there to build my happiness around, or get strength from. I don't think you can love someone else, until you first love yourself. I'm still building that in myself. Being on my own, and not involved with anyone, has been the healthiest thing for me. I think with a clear head, and a strong heart.

A common response is move on, go find someone else...one thing I've learned is that ignoring your emotions by burying them with someone else, thinking that the grass is greener, will never change anything. Merely just covers it up, why are we all so afraid to face our issues? My marriage had issues before the A began. We did not take them on with full force. Something I regret, and would love to have the chance again, to give it that total committment that I neglected to give it the first time. I know our marriage would have been amazing if we both were committed, not relying on anyone else (coworkers) for our ENs.

At this point, I would just like my WH to learn who I am, to recognize I'm alive and that I do acknowledge what I did. He tells me over and over to this day that I just cant' take responsibility for my actions. I'm not sure how he can say it, he doesn't know me now, or what I feel or think. Nothing about me, only what he knew before. I'm about to get a divorce, I'm not sure what more I could do to accept it.

This must be very difficult for anyone to think I could come out of the fog that I was in. It was a horrible time of my life, but I cherish everything I've learned from it. i pray to be a better person now, I pray for it every day, and now struggle, as I want to reach out to him, and let him know simply, just that I care.

IHadEnough,

how are you doing now? You said you filed for D from your W right away. Hope things are getting better for your now.

-sad

Lifeismessy,

There are alot of financial concerns on his end. I'm not sure if that's the cause of the delay. I hope your recovery is going well. Thanks for your earlier reply.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> sad

Thanks WhiteDaisy. I have been reading your threads. I found some similarity in your posts to what I am experiencing.

I am here, I want to fight for my M. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Thanks for your reply. I hope things are going well for you.

sadinthecity

Again, I am sorry for what you are going through. You remind me of my wife in some ways and it hurts when a person reads similar stories.

I marvel at your H because he did try so hard for a long time. Some of us especialy guys have a hard time with the Phyisical Affair where women seem to be more hurt by the EA. Your H was a better man than me becuase he tried to overcome the PA and tried to reach you for a long time. My wife always told me if I had an A she would leave me in a minute but I also told her if she ever slept with another man I would be gone.

I found emails and recordings where she wanted the kids, my house, alimony and then wanted her stud to take my place. She told me she never said those things to him but she did not know I had all of this evidence. When I saw that you were talking marriage with your OM it reminded me of my wife.

Now she begs me for another chance but I have lost all love and respect for her and I just want to move on. No, I am not dating and the D will be final in another month then I will be free and so will she. Personaly I think she wants the lifestyle I could provide and the thought of losing that is really hurting her.

I did not mean to be harsh to you. I wish all of us could be happy but marriage is hard. I am sorry you are going through this but hope the counseling is helping you. I also don't think your husband should be dating unless he is divorced. What he is doing is wrong!

May I ask another question. What happened with the OM you were living with during the week for all of those years? Did it end when he found out about your H? Or did it end for other reasons?

I ask this because I am trying to understand my wife and I cannot. It helps to hear what another woman is thinking during an Affair and it helps me process things better.

Thank you and I do wish you the best.

Sorry if I stirred up feelings from your experience. Again, can't say I am happy that I caused those feelings for my now WH, let alone someone else reading about it.

You mentioned you marvel at him being able to hang on so long. I didn't deserve his 'hanging on' then. He was a strong person. He told me frequently that I was going to lose him if I didn't leave the OM and move in w/him. We argued endlessly that it wasn't going to 'just work' that way. We had tons of issues that had to have some agreed plan of attack, or agreement on how to pursue a solution. Instead, it was yelling and screaming, and leading to the ultimatum. We had almost no emotional connection. I was getting my ENs filled by the OM, and him from his coworker. (now OW).

He was strong for not starting a PA with her, I wish I could say the same of myself. When it all came out again this past spring, I was already disconnecting myself from teh OM. Trying to get past the addiction of the relationship. Because my H and I were starting to talk about all the things we knew we had to do to survive. And at Christmas, I thought there was more of an effort from both of us, I really was emotionally disconnecting from the OM, and starting to look to my H for that connection. Somewhere between Christmas and spring, we continued to have issues. I told him about my concern about his closeness with the coworker (OW) at work. He told me I was just a jealous ******. Well, I was jealous because I could easily see that he had no emotional connection with me, it was with her. Not sure that qualifies me as a jealous ******, but I consider the circumstances now. The table turned, and he was now the one wondering outside the M. While I was weening off the OM.

Early spring hit, and the OM confronted him due to my spending less and less time with him, wondering why I was backing off, if I was getting back together with my H. He was right. I was getting over him, and feeling thins for my H that had been buried for so long. (the fog).

The OM does know my status now, that I am facing the D. We talk on ocassion, and oddly, I should add, that back at the end of summer, he was my biggest support to do all those things that my H was asking of me. He respected that I wanted to get back together with my H. He even told my H that he thought I was sincere in loving my H, and would have filed for a D along time ago, if I truly did not love him. Weird, but I respect him for being strong enough to feel and be honest about this stuff. And now, again, he checks to see if I'm ok, and knows I am in counseling, and sees me cry, and hurt, and I know that it has shown him just how much I did love my H. I have asked that he respect my feelings now, that I need to let my heart and mind get through this on my own. He's been a friend, but I've backed off a million miles, and haven't allowed myself to be emotionally close with him. It's been dangerous spending any time with him, because he's still very hurt and angry about the whole thing too. And as I'm trying to move on emotionally, and find forgiveness, I get pulled in the opposite direction from him. He sayd hurtful things, and doesn't trust me, to the point that he sometimes checks on whether or not i'm home in my apt. It's just not healthy.

I've been relying on my family and friends, counselor, and MB for ways to find strength in myself to get through this.

I can tell you, that when I was in the As, that I felt like all my problems with my H would get better. I was getting all the emotional support i needed from the OM, and doing fun things, he was interested in me, all the things I'm sure my H would have done if given the chance, however, I was so resentful towards him, because to me, he wasn't making enough effort. He closed down to me emotionally, it was twisted acutally. I was dying to have that same relationship I was having with the OM, with my own H. I felt immense amounts of guilt, I was sad, somewhat depressed, because what I was doing was not what I believed in. It was like a sick addiction just to feel loved. So not worth it. I would go home on weekends and compare my H to the OM, and I'd get so angry at my H for not being as open, caring or loving as the OM. Now I know why he couldn't be, but I didn't see it then. (fog, fog and more fog).

You said your W begged you for another chance, was she still with the OM? I begged over the summer, for that third/fourth chance, but he was already gone. When I emotionally, completely left the OM, it was the saddest point of this experience, because yes, you realize what you had, and you feel terrible regret for all that was hurt, and removed. For me, I was told by my H that i deserved to be hurt, and miserable, and divorced. He scored on that one, and carried through when he left behind his written docmentation of his own EA/PA with his coworker. And when I realized that the false recovery wasn't just on my side, it was also him, that's what hurt the most.

I'm sorry you went through any of the hurt that I know I caused my H. No one should go through it. I'm with you though, I know that emotionally, I can't date right now, I'm just not ready for that. More of my hurt is stemming from hearing that he wants a D, back in Oct. and hearing that I'll get my SA soon, over and over, and still I have nothing. No SA is in place, he's off w/her, and I feel like I'm being controlled. In the state we hold residence (neither of us live there anymore), you can only file for a D 6 mos. after the date of separation, if and only if there is a SA in place. Without a separation agreement, it is a year until you can file. Everyone that knows of our situation thinks that this is his last attempt at revenge, holding off, taking his time. Controlling the situation. It's hard.

(i'm responding in random order, sorry)....you also mentioned that my talking about M with the OM reminded you of your wife. I can only speak for myself, but while in the A, you tell the OP everything they need to hear to keep them in the relationship. The OM kept asking me when I was going to get the D. I kept saying it was coming...never w/a date though. I didn't want a D. And I knew that in my heart and my head. There's no other way to put it, I was too weak of a person to put everyone else's needs in front of my own, and be honest with the OM, myself and my H. This is easier said than done, but I wouldn't take alot of what your W has said w/the OM personally. At least, that's what I would say to my H now. Is she with the OM while you're going through your D?

I hope the D process hasn't been taking a toll on you. I know for me while waiting for it all to hit, I've had a hard time focusing on work, and the things that I need to start grabbing onto, rebuilding myself. It's a struggle, but I think we all are capable of being better people. No matter what end we're on (WS or BS)...there is so much to learn from these horrible life experiences.

This may sound corny, but this is something I keep in my mind all the time...I grew up with a family that was 'picture' happy. My mom took pictures of EVERYTHING. While I was w/my H, and the time of my As, hardly any pictures were taken. Most people take pictures of those memorable, happy times. I want a life worth taking a picture of. Not a fairy tale, and I realize not everything is cause for a Kodak moment, I just want a memorable life, with happier times now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

hope you have a good weekend...i'm here if you want to ask anything else. nice to be honest about what I was feeling, thinking and doing then. thanks for asking. you acutally made my weekend <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> it's a conversation i wish i could have openly with my own WH.

-sad

"The OM does know my status now, that I am facing the D. We talk on ocassion, and oddly, I should add, that back at the end of summer, he was my biggest support to do all those things that my H was asking of me. He respected that I wanted to get back together with my H. He even told my H that he thought I was sincere in loving my H, and would have filed for a D along time ago, if I truly did not love him. Weird, but I respect him for being strong enough to feel and be honest about this stuff."

Oh please. Your OM DOES NOT respect your marriage. Give me a break. He is just using manipulation. You are still a bit foggy, my dear.

sadincity

Thank you for being so honest in your post. It does help me to hear a different point of view on these matters. Some of what you say I just cannot understand why but some of it I have heard. I just thought my wife may have been lying about it but maybe she has not. Also your story intrigued me but please don’t apologize to me for my feelings because you did not do anything to me.

When a person is neglected I can see where they could fall into an affair but on the other hand some people are just too high of maintenance. It sounds like you need more than one man in your life. Even now you talk about wanting your H but you still talk fondly about the OM. I was neglected for years in my marriage and I honestly did try to make my wife happy but I feel I was destined to fail. My wife never seemed happy and it sounds like you were the same way. I don’t think your H could have done anything to meet your needs enough to make you happy just like I failed to make my wife happy.

I don’t think my wife is with OM but then again it will not hurt me if she is ( I told her to go ahead because he must be a better man than me). I did embarrass her with the Affair and I have a lot more evidence that could really hurt her but I don’t want that anymore. I want her to be happy and since she never met my needs even for 1 year of our marriage I decided that I want to move on without her. I provided a good life for her and it really hurt what she did to me. She told me that she was always scared to let any woman near me because she was afraid she would lose me. She thought that other women would want me because I earn a good living and she did not have to work.

She quit her job a while back because we did not need the money. She was able to live in a nice home, drive a new car and have sex with another guy all at my expense. What hurt most about the affair is it started because one of her friends slept with this guy and said the sex was great and he was really built down there. She says she became curious and when they met he pursued her and she liked it. Now as a guy it really is hard to overcome the sex with the OM. I could have forgiven an emotional affair but not the physical affair. They were having sex in my bed when I traveled. I actually got them on tape having sex in my bed. I knew they would be there from emails and phone conversations so after seeing that it was too much to overcome. I don’t know why I feel the need to say it but I am actually above average in that area but this guy was huge so I guess I felt humiliated. But more than anything I guess I just felt that she was better off with someone else. I never made her happy and I just felt like less of a man than her OM. In some ways I just thought it was easier to move on so she could be with a man that she loved and could satisfy her and she never seemed happy with me.

Now she wants me back. I just won’t do it because I think she used me all of these years. I was a paycheck who provided for her and then she got to go out and have sex with others. I don’t know how many times she cheated she says just this time but I don’t believe it. She treated me so lousy I just feel this is the tip of the iceberg. Like I tell her now she has the chance to go out with whomever she wants and find someone she loves. Well again she did not have to work and got to go out with OM so she sees that with me she had the best of both worlds. I just feel she does not want to give that up and since she never met my needs I feel it is best to move on.

It helps to read from another WW to see the thought process. I appreciate you taking your time and again I am sorry for what you are going through. It does sound like to me you have never had a happy marriage either. For you to be happy at all you had to have 2 men to try and make you happy. For me again it seems like men have a hard time when our wives find another man to sleep with. Like I told my wife I want her to be happy, but since I never made her happy I feel she needs a better man than me to do that. Thanks for your time.

Sad,
You are still in contact with the OM?
Have you truly read all of the MB principles and articles on NC? You cannot even begin to work on a marriage while ANY contact is going on! If you are still in contact, then my dear you are still wayward. Being still wayward, the your OP is still meeting your needs and you his. How do you intend to meet your BSs needs if you cannot and have not broke ALL contact? That is unfair to your BS and to your M.

I do not agree with you BS either. What he is doing is wrong and a bad choice on his part. However, you have knowledge that he is learning. The needs will be met one way or another. Unfortunate byproduct of an A.

I realize the MB concept of NC means absolutely NC. I'm not sure and perhaps this is the fog I still have, how that has any effect on a WS who is demanding a D while they are having their own A, my H acts as if I am dead, we do not speak - see my confusion?

TOTAL NC will make me feel better about myself yes. And I have felt better the less I've spoken with this person. I do not have an emotional tie to this person any more, I feel nothing. If I pass him on a street I am kind enough to say hello. He is out dating and doing his own thing, moving on with his life.

I do know that unless my WH leaves his job, he'll never meet the NC MB rules. But you're all correct, at least I will be totally out of the fog. My WH is in absolute NC with me. And I emphasize WH because he's made it VERY clear to me he has lots of feelings for his coworker, it's written on paper that they've had a PA as well for about 2 years. Still shows tons of fear in his A (A in my mind, not in his) being exposed to his workplace though.

Sorry, I'm just frustrated. I realize I can only change myself. But 2 wrongs do not make a right. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I'll focus on myself, and my total NC. Thanks Believer and JustEmpty.

sad,

i have to go with believer.

As long as you have contact with om you are still unfaithful. om does not have your best interests at heart, only his lust and his satisfation. I am sorry that your H has taken the same path as you have, but what did you expect after all this has come down? Your H had EN's also. Not just you.

No contact is so very important. You have not given that to your H, and now he is WH.

I don't know how you can fix this. Your H has chosen ow because you did not do the right thing. NOT that he has taken the right path. This is, and has been a revenge affair.

And yet you continue contact with om. Gosh, I do not know what to say. Maybe, just maybe if you went NC with om, and let your H know, after, maybe a couple of months, it might be your groundwork for recovery.

If not, well, NC with om will be the best for you, and if you do not recover your M, perhaps you will have gained enough wisdom to have a healthy relationship in the future.

No, your H is not right, but it is on YOU to do the right thing.

Love in Christ,
Miss M