I've been corresponding with a guy on line for about 3 weeks. He has many of the characteristics I'm looking for. We email long, informative emails a couple of times a week, haven't spoken on the phone & haven't spoken about meeting. However, he's separated since Sept.

NOW, PLEASE. Don't start with the he's not available until the second his papers are signed. I know all that & hold the view that people are in different places emotionally when they separate. Some are ready to do some dating others are not. No one is in a position to get into a serious relationship. IOM.

I know when we divorce there are steps we MUST all go through & he can't possibly have gone through those adequately to make potential partner material.

What I think I need to do is simply offer my support, as a friend, encourage him to go out on dates if he's ready. I DO NOT want to become a transitional relationship, a bandaid that gets tossed once he's healed.

We aren't there & may not get there but, as I said, he has many of the qualities I look for & I can't help but want to see if...

I'm mentally putting the cart before the horse, thinking about what if...Important to think ahead I think.

So, what do the wise ones say? Aside from met him first & see if I even feel drawn to him. Let's [censored]-u-me (thanks AGG <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />) I'm attracted to him & he to me for the sake of this discussion.

"So, what do the wise ones say? Aside from met him first & see if I even feel drawn to him. Let's [censored]-u-me (thanks AGG ) I'm attracted to him & he to me for the sake of this discussion."

That in itself would scare me Nams.
For the very reasons that you have mentioned. He will have the process to go thru, and it won't help to be in "something" and try to get thru it.

I would be afraid for you that you would get hurt in the process. I'm not implying that he would do this intentionally, but I think he could be confused/emotionally un-available.

This of course is my opinion. Will wait to see what the wise ones have to say.

Karona

Hehehe... I would not say "meet him and see if you even feel drawn to him". The risk that you two WILL like each other would too great, and then what? And since he does not yet know what is good for him, given his recent separation (not divorce), you know that he will be clueless.

He will think that he is ready, and he will no doubt be able to sound very convincing of it. We all did in his shoes <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. But you, nams, have the superior knowledge of knowing that he is NOT ready, right? So, why play with fire when you know there is a high risk of getting burned? If you meet him, and if you like him, you will start rationalizing that maybe he is more "advanced" than most 5-month-separated people, blah blah blah. And before you know it, you'll end up in a relationship, a rebound one at that (for him). BTDT, would not recommend it.

So I would say my usual - feel free to e-mail with him (as a friend), and see where you are 6 months after his divorce is final (why is he separated, who wanted it, how long was he married, etc, will all be important questions as well). If you meet him before that, someone is gonna get hurt (unless you both hate each other on the first date, but it is too high a risk to take <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />).

AGG

well, I may be in the minority here but here goes anyway.. I think it depends on the person. I will speak for me. I feel I am ready to start pursuing some new friendships. I am only legally separated and not divorced and that is more so because I feel wh should have to pay for the D since I paid for the sep. and he cannot file until November which is one full year
from when we signed sep papers. We have lived apart since last July and we lived without a sep agreement until November. Now, in my sitch, my wh and I lived in the same house but he slept on the couch the last 2 and a half years of our marriage so we have not had a "marriage" persay for a very long time. When he first left last July I was in no way ready to even think about another relationship. But as it is now going on 9 months that he has been gone, I feel I am ready to start looking. Very slowly, starting out as friends with someone. As I said in a previous post, I too am communicating with someone online. I have been honest that I am legally separated. We just spoke on the phone for the first time today. It went great. But I am in NO WAY ready to meet in person. He lives an hour and a half from me and is going to be in my town this week for some work project but I told him I was not ready to meet and he respects that. I gave myself a 6 month time frame. Email and phone talk for 6 months and if all is going well THAN meet.

So, I am only legally separated but feel I am at that point. Now, I will not let anyone be around my children until I am divorced. So if anything starts looking serious the D would have to be speeded up a bit. But I should have a D by late fall anyway once wh files. I do not feel I am on a "rebound", I have worked long and hard to get to the point I am at emotionally and mentally. If I were gonna rebound I would have been in an R long ago. I know what I am looking for. I do not believe I am being unfair in any way to this person I am chatting with. And my D will be pretty cut and dried because it will simply state what the legal sep does. So no haggling or emotional messes. I just know I am ready.

I would keep talking to him and try to get a feel for where he is at. What is the big rush to meet? Email, talk on the phone. A whole lot can change once you meet. Give it a few months before you even think of meeting. Just my 2 cents worth. mlhb

If you're the first person he's dated out the starting gate, unless you're willing to risk a broken heart - I'd toss him back in the sea for a bit of fishy fishy education. Seriously, I've done the first time out - and they kept going back to ex wives. I decided I was either a TERRIBLE example of what's available or a darned good marriage coach. It seems since one of them is still a good friend and gives me the credit for getting him and his wife together again - coach is a nice term... ARGH

But, seriously, who wants to be the diving board on which they jump into the water from?

Just my really crass response to the starter gun relationships. (And I'm the last person in the world to say the ink has to be dry on the divorce papers.)

Blessings,

Jan

Thanks All for taking the time to respond.

My head knows I should leave this one alone but my heart say otherwise.

Of course I want to agree with mlhb & in many ways I do.

I don't want to end up with a broken heart. I know he needs to experience being alone, which he's very happy doing since HE left his wife. I don't know why he left. From what I can infer from his emails things were not peaceful at his house & he waited until his daughters were a certain age before leaving his 24 year marriage. He said it was the best decision he's made. We will get to more specifics in time I suspect. We are taking the emails slowly, there is no suggestion of anything. We are simply corresponding & I'm corresponding & dating other men.

But, he REALLY has lots of what I want in a man. It all could go up in a puff of smoke if we meet...

Part of me says "play with fire!" part of me says "you know he's in no position to get serious & you only risk getting hurt so don't go there."

I wonder if I can simply be his friend, NOT his dating coach. Maybe let him know there is some interest on my part, way down the line, but that I won't get involved until he's been out there a bit. Yes, AGG, you're absolutely right he will think he's ready & he's likely to be convincing if it comes to that.

Mind you none of this has come up, it's me thinking ahead to what I might want to see happen. I guess what I'm thinking is this: I meet him in a couple of months,we like
each other, I suggest we stay friends, see each other occasionally while he checks the other possibilities. I continue to date & who knows?

Anyone think that could work? I know I'm asking for the crystal ball here so be kind please. My little heart is working so hard trying find any possibility this might have a chance.

I don't want to shut the door before it's even been open because of what may happen.

Hey Jan!

Nams,
Please don't take this wrong... but it SURE is nice to see other people's mind trying to screw with them!
Over the summer, I went out with a guy recently DIVORCED-not seperated. Man, it was great! I thought I was falling for him. We had a fabulous time, he was SO over her and ready to move on (with me!)...so I thought! But as time went by, oh, about two or three months, I started to see that he was having some issues from stuff he hadn't dealt with yet. My bad to let myself think that MAYBE he was different. Sure seemed he had it all together. It ended ugly, and I gotta tell ya, I'm still hurting from it. Just haven't fully recovered. Now, mind you, it was a good lesson for me-I need to be where I am right now, but it doesn't make it hurt any less!

So... in the fall I picked myself up and started dating another guy who was recently divorced (NOT seperated, divorced!). Now, let me tell ya, this guy REALLY had it together, he was into self help, knew what he wanted, was able to communicate, shared stuff with me (although if you all remember, he never did kiss me!). Let's see, about 2 months into it I realized, you know, he's not ready. Didn't hurt as bad as summer boy....but....do you see where I'm going?

We come here to hopefully learn from others' mistakes. I know I do, I love to come and get some good solid advice from people who really don't know me all that well. They have an idea of who I am, but there is no alternative motive but to keep me from getting myself hurt -by sharing their experiences. So there are mine! Learn from my mistakes!

If this guy "might be the one", then he will be in a year-yes, I said a year! He's been out 5 months from a *24* year marriage?!!! Man, he's got a LOOOOOOOONNNNNG way to go, hon, and you know it! Those qualities you are liking in him will still be there next year!
No one was more ready to be divorced than I was two years ago! And it still sent me reeling when those papers came! There are more guys out there with less baggage waiting for a wonderful gal like you! Run from this guy!

Sorry, I know it isn't what you want to hear...but you know you don't want us to just sugarcoat it and tell you what you want to hear! But at least I tried to be gentle with the delivery! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

nams,

I have to agree with Drita, it's kinda charming to see someone else struggle to fool their own mind <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.


Not a good start, IMO.


What you'll end up being is not his friend, but his crutch (man, it seems like there are three other threads on here right now where I am singing the same tune, where did all these dating-while-separated people come from??)... And once a crutch, always a crutch. And once he gets healthy (if he does, i.e. if you don't interfere), then he'll realize how many dating prospects are out there, and you'll be tossed aside.


The problem with this logic is that feelings get in the way, and most of us are not strong enough to push feelings out of the way. You are dealing with this already, "knowing" that he is not ready but "wanting" to go on. It'd only get worse if you met.


Those are famous last words, nams. They are said over and over by people who rationalize something that "feels" good over something that "is" good. It's not a question of what "may happen" that's the problem, but what already "is", here and now. Look at the facts:

1. The man has been separated 5 months (not divorced!!).
2. The man has been married for 24 years.
3. The man has left his wife, why you do not know.
4. The man has not dated yet, and you are his rebound.

Now, what exactly is it that you see in him that is something "you always wanted in a man"?

I hate to be harsh or a wet blanket, nams, but I also hate to see you get tangled up in something we all (including you) know is wrong.

AGG

Hey nams:

I'm going to throw in a "what-if" situation for all to ponder. What if nams potential relationship-guy has been slowly healing from a bad marital situation however due to circumstances - was unable to divorce until a year or two after detachment/separation? Would this put a different spin on her sitch?

While each of us certainly need to heal after D - is there a difference between someone who's basically been emotionally separated for say a year or more and someone who perhaps was blindsided by A & subsequent quick D?

FR

Drita don't worry I won't take anything the wrong way. You're kind enough to offer your experience & I appreciate that. You're right, I don't want to experience the same thing you did in your two relationships. I'd rather not be involved than go down that road.

AGG-I don't know why he left because we haven't progressed that far in our emailings. If he's reluctant to share that will tell me something important. We are moving slowly. Neither one of us has tossed all the vitals for the other to deal with. We don't even have what I would consider a relatioinship. At this point we are writing each other emails talking about general things, eg. our feelings about religion, some kid stuff, more like conversation you'd share with someone you met at a party & enjoyed talking to. Certainly not a spill your guts.

You're right, if we dated right now I be his crutch/rebound. This I see clearly.

Thank you FR. This is more the situation I'm hoping for. Not that he doesn't need more healing time, I suspect he does, just that he may have some of the process under his belt due to circumstances.

I'll use myself as an example. ex said he wanted to D 2 1/2 years ago. We wrangled around a bit, he decided to "reconcile" for one year. He was not really trying, IMO, I saw things going down the tubes after a while & there was a level of understanding on my part. He moved out 1 1/2 years ago & divorce was final this past Jan. I'd had time to do some healing befor the D was final. I'm ready to date, not ready to re-marry, but certtainly ready to date & even start a relationship that might lead to something long term. Who's to say this man isn't also?

I will need to communicate with him more to know his situation, his particular level of healing & ability to form a new relationship.

I don't think it's the kind of thing that's easily hidden. Go to to run out the door RIGHT NOW. I'll be back to finish. I will tell you why I think he has to offer that I'm looking for. Provided he's emotionally healthy which remains to be seen.

Thank you all.

How did you come across this guy? It was not a dating site?

AGG

nams, maybe he is different and maybe he is ready (maybe!), but I wouldn't 'worry' about that...
I would 'worry' why do you have such a good 'picture' of him ("he has many of the qualities I look for & I can't help but want to see if..."), why do you want him so much, and you haven't even met him.
I mean... OK, you should be attracted to him in order to want to meet him, but nothing more than that, to meet him and to see if... Somehow it seems you've got too involved already/too soon...
That is just picture of him... based on his - just words... and you don't know anything else but what he said (I adore your trusting him, btw...)... and doesn't our experience tell us we should not rely (only) on words, but actions too...
Well, I just want to tell you - regardless how much we need someone special in our life, we should never give them 'grants' before they deserve (in 3d, that is <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)

"My head knows I should leave this one alone but my heart say otherwise."
... Heart??... if you said 'my need' I'd understand, but heart, already...?
Yet you said:"I don't want to end up with a broken heart."
What's wrong here I don't know exactly, just feel it...
But, going back to beggining, I wouldn't worry about his state of mind... that part is his responsibility, as your part is yours...

(... just thinking loud... or rambling? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />)

I'm back from running around doing kid stuff.

AGG, I came across him on a dating site, yahoo.

B2M, no, I don't think he's different or that he's ready. Just that perhaps due to circumstances he may be part way down the road.

I think I understand what you're asking me. Please tell me if I have it right.

1. Why do I say I want him if I don't know him?

2. How can I know he's a man with qualities I want if I don't know him?

3. How can I speak about my heart being involved when we have no relationship?

4. Am I in a state of mind to be looking for a relationship?

Even if I don't have it right I'll answer these questions.

1. I don't say I want him I'm saying I'd like to meet him & get to know him. This way I can determine if he does indeed have the qualities I want in a man I'd like to date.

2. I can't know anything about the qualities he actually has until I meet him. I can only judge by the qualities he appears to have. The qualities he appears to have are the ones I find necessary for me to be drawn to a man enough to want a relationship with him.

I can only read the words he provides me with (& those he omits) as a guide to his character for now. I know that's only part of the picture & I need, at the very least, to meet him to get a more accurate picture.

3. I'm using the word heart because I feel I want to meet him through the emails we've exchanged. I like what he says, his apparent intellect, his kindness, consideration etc.

Of course there is intellectual judgement not just emotional (heart) that I'm using to feel my way through this.

4. I believe I'm in a good state of mind & I'm emotionally heathy enough to be looking for someone to spend some time with & even to consider a long term relationship.

Please know I'm not saying this is the man I want to marry & I want to do it tomorrow!

I'm saying I feel attracted to him due to what appear to be qualities I admire & want in a man. Due to this I'd like to meet him.

I'm reluctant due to his newly separated state. I don't want to meet him, like him, start a relationship only to be tossed once he no longer needs a crutch.

I'm projecting ahead to the possibility of wanting a relationship with him. I'm hoping he might have done some of the work necessary, as FR suggested as a possibility, to perhaps be near to a place where he is healthy enough to date.

So, let's face it, he is looking for dating, not friends.


I am afraid that I am going to stick to my guns on this one, nams. A guy who is only separated from a 24 year marriage has a whole lot of healing to do. The idea of him "having already done some of the work" is tempting and appealing, but is overly simplified.

"Work" in this case is not like studying for a driver's exam, where maybe he already memorized the rules of the road. "Work" is going through all the stages of grieving (all 5 of them), rediscovering himself, learning what he wants in a partner, discovering that he may actually be desirable, enjoying the attention of "dating", dealing with the disappointment of the 99% of the dating crowd (ask most of us here), reworking his priorities, reconsidering his must have's and can't stand's, dating some more to see what he likes and what he doesn't like, and then trying to find The One.

Now, how much of this do you think he has done?

AGG

Probability IS low, but maybe he doesn't need that, AGG.
It depends on which type of a man he is; maybe he's just pleased to be in one relationship forever, and if his M is gone after 24 years, maybe all he wants is not to date but find a woman he can continue marriage life with.
Maybe.

The time itself doesn't guarantee someone went through that either.
Someone can do all of that in a short period of time, for some people it takes many years... and some people know all of that right away (rediscovering yourself sometimes ends before M officially ends, they already know what they want in a partner)... etc.
Again, probablity is low, but still it exists...

nams,
4. I had got this one, and think you are.
I just wanted to say that you should be more 'rational' than emotional... to protect yourself if he's not what you thought of...

The rest... I'm OK with...
especially:

"3. I'm using the word heart because I feel I want to meet him through the emails we've exchanged. I like what he says, his apparent intellect, his kindness, consideration etc.
Of course there is intellectual judgement not just emotional (heart) that I'm using to feel my way through this."

Nams, you don't have too many options:
you either stop it right now, or you meet him and see 'if...'
The third option to continue as 'a friend', moreover, to encourage him to date other women - I'd run&run away from this...

I don't think it's mistake if you meet him and try...
What I see as wrong is you saying "don't want to meet him, like him, start a relationship only to be tossed once he no longer needs a crutch."... please replace this with "well, if it doesn't work, he is not ready (or 'we are not compatible enough', and life goes on"... (& "his loss" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)
And, if you try, do not ever make excuses for him (a la 'he's recently divorced and.....), for that consideration can blur real picture of him...
(make sense?)


If he decides to date, he thinks he's healthy enough, therefore, you take him as the healthy one too.

I guess I suggest you neglect his recent divorce after 24 years marriage in all (IF you start dating), it should be his problem; you either accept if he's fine, or not if opposite, without giving him special time, special patience, special care... for I'm afraid, if you do and invest yourself in his 'Healing', and you break up, you really might feel as 'tossed once he no longer needs a crutch', and you do not need that at all.
(To avoid ever feeling as someone's crutch - never allow yourself to be a crutch; simple as that.)

Thanks All for sticking with me on this scenario we've all seen here many times.

Here's my plan: I will continue to email. My what ifs are going to get stuffed into a box & packed up. Who knows when they will be seen again. In general I'm not a what if kind of person. I like to take things as they come with an eye to the future. In this case I projected the maybes & could bes. It's all speculation anyway. I'll bet he's more of a bridge troll than a sweetheart in any case. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

We have not talked about meeting. If it comes up I will meet him. I won't start a relationship with him. I know to many this is playing with fire. Maybe. I'm going to beleive I have the self control necessary keep my distance. If not I'll be back for the deserved verbal slaps.

The good qualities I suspect this man has are character traits that will be there when he's ready to look for a partner. If I'm around then & still interested in getting to know him great. If not, I hope it's because I've found someone else who is in a better postition to be looking for a partner.

Thank you AGG for spelling the stages out. You're right about this not being something that's worked through as if it's a check list. It's a weaving through stuff process that goes in & out of the stages, often in a messy way.
The work is done simultaneously.

Though time isn't the way we can judge who's done when, realistically,4 months doesn't seem like enough time for the amount of stuff that needs to be put to bed.

I've got a couple of other prospects at the moment, though none of whom had the same appeal this man had. I'll see what happens & be open to the healthy, ready men who are no doubt lining up at this very minute. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Therein lies a huge problem. Do you really want someone who only wants to 'continue a marriage' life with someone new?

I guess one thing I'm wary about is how do you know He's REALLY seperated and a divorce is in the works?

How many times have we heard story after story on here that someone found their spouse has been posting on a dating site?

I think you need to find out more, like why he seperated, why he wants a divorce, what has he learned about himself, and what would he do differently in a new relationship or
marriage that he didn't do, or didn't know to do in his current one. And if he has considered those things, then has he tried them in his current marriage to see if things could or would actually work, before his divorce is final.

I know each one of us has at some point wished that we would or could have done certain things differently before the divorce was final, some of us even tried once we realized this to no avail. So has he really TRIED everything to make his current marriage work?

You know what you have learned since being here, so maybe ask him if he's heard of many or any of the books from here and if he's read any of them. If not, then what books if any has he read? What has he done to try and save his current marriage? As we all know not all marriage counselors are 'pro-marriage' so how many marriage counselors if any did they go to?

I really hate to think you may get sucked in emotionally to an online or even other relationship with someone who isn't divorced, and who may not even really be filing for divorce, but lying to you and ends up actually leaving his wife and marriage after 24 years to be with you. I know you would carry a lot of guilt over something like that.

I know I'm tossing a wet blanket here, but I don't want you to be hurt because of possible lies. And in that he lives so far away, you wouldn't necessarily know he's STILL married and actually living with his wife until it would be emotionally to late.

And wouldn't THAT be a red flag big enough to sail a ship? Isn't that exactly how we all felt when our marriages were failing ("I just want to be married"), and isn't it only after we spent some time alone again that we realized how much we need to learn, to rediscover, to grow, and to heal? Someone who simply wants to get back to being "married" without ever having been "divorced" is not a good prospect, IMO. Especially if the idea of being "married" is more important to them than who they are married to...


I don't believe this can happen. Yes, people may think they have grown, healed, and rediscovered themselves while still in the marriage, but the fact is, you can't put the cart ahead of the horse. He has to live alone, grieve, heal, learn, etc. And for waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay longer than four months.


Don't forget, he is not divorced. We don't even know the answers to any of the questions that TR asked so well: why is he divorcing, has he tried to save the marriage, how has he tried, what has he learned, etc etc.

I see this as a big heartache for nams in the future, if she is not careful. Trying to beat the odds is always an uphill battle. And these odds are huge, IMO.

AGG

Yes, yes, trying to beat the odds. kinda gets the heart & mind racing.

What kept coming to me yesterday was, I can't force things to happen.

This man is not ready, the situation is not right, no matter how much I may want it to be otherwise. I need to step back & let things take a natural course.

I don't think that means I can't email him & get to know him better, possibly even meet. It does mean though that there can't be any romantic relationship between us.

Thinking of the possibilites for heartbreak is enough to keep my distance.

Thank you TR for your thoughtful response.

You're right, I don't know anything for a fact. I find people generally present themselves how they want to been seen whether it's on line or IRL. It's only over time do we really know who someone is.

This case with this man is no different.