I could use some help in trying to reconcile God's will in Mike Schluter's illness. As it looks now, if he doesn't get up to his target weight, there will be nothing else the doctors can do for him. See my latest thread: Operation Mschluter for details. Mike's at the point that he wants to let the Lord take him. The last conversation we had, he wants to just end things now. He's weary & I've tried to be encouraging, & talk him out of suicide, but I think the longer this goes, the more determined he will be to take his own life.

He asked me to let him go. How can I do that when I care about him so much? How can I let him go w/o a fight? He has become my H's best friend & Mike, Cindy, me & my H have developed a close bond. I have prayed about this, contemplated it & I cannot see what God's will is in all of this. Somehow the answer that God works in mysterious ways isn't much of a comfort right now.

Can you guys help me? What words can I use to comfort Cindy when she's in tears or when Mike's talking about going to see his Lord & meeting us on the other side in his uniform? I feel nothing but sadness & I don't know how much longer I can keep being encouraging when I talk to him. Please help me to find the courage to keep on helping him fight. I've even repeated the footprints poem to him & his response was, "I know. I have the poem cut out & in the frame of you & H's picture." That just made me so sad.

Y,

This is always the toughest thing to handle. I'm not sure if I even have the words.

I know you know that it's hard for us to see the big picture. God knows what is coming down the road for Mike. We can only comprehend the feelings we have for those we love and don't look forward to not spending that precious time with them. There's always more to do, especially if we feel like we've wasted some of it. Is that selfish of us? Probably. Does that make us bad? Heavens no. Mike has probably been Jesus to heaven knows how many people in his life. Who would ever want that to go away?

I remember when I gave up my M to God. It wasn't that I quit fighting, it was that I realized that I didn't have the power or authority to change the outcome and that was only in the hands of a God that loved me and my W so much that He gave us His son. I had no doubt that God loved us. So, with that much love for us, I knew He would always do what was best for me. Either change my W's heart or give me grace enough to live without her and heal me.

My point is that God loves Mike and will do what is best for him. Yes It might be a period of lonliness for us, but it is nothing short of ultimate healing for Mike when he goes to be in the presence of his Creator, Savior and Lord.

There is one thing I am absolutely sure of and that is that nothing bad can ever come out of placing anything into the hands of God.

Prayers and the Lord's Blessings over you and your H, Mike, Cindy and their families.

Forever in His arms.

S&C

Thanks, S&C. I knew I could count on you to help me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> This is exactly what Mike says he is doing. Placing his illness in God's hands. He is using the power of prayer to heal him. I see it that God uses doctors to heal. Sometimes help comes in the form you don't expect it to. Is there anything wrong w/trying to get him to gain that weight so he can go for the treatment? He wants to just let go & not eat, not do anything basically except lay there & wait for nature to take its course. I have a problem w/that. And the whole suicide thing, well, IMO, that's just wrong. Our life isn't fully ours to decide if we want to live or die; otherwise, we'd just be going around killing ourselves when life doesn't meet up to what we want it to be or we get dealt a hand that we just can't deal with. We are God's. God gets to determine when we die, not us. Then we have the flip side. Are our efforts in vain? Are we just prolonging the inevitable? Are we taking matters into our own hands by sending him these power bars to gain weight? My line of thought has been that we need to try everything possible we can before he gives up on life. Is that wrong of me? Are we "trying to change the outcome"?

Y,

I hope this doesn't come out callous. I know I'm not in his shoes and don't really comprehend what he's going through. But, I think if I were talking to Mike this is what I'd say.

"Mike, if you are leaving this up to God and the power of prayer, then you need to start living like God is answering those prayers. And one way to do that is to eat. Not eating is taking the matter into your own hands and out of God's.

I'm not saying to keep fighting. To me there is a difference between fighting and living. Fighting is done with the belief that we have control over the situation. Living is the belief that God is in control and we believe in His wisdom and power the right outcome."

The Apostle Paul seems to have contimplated the same thing at one point in the book of the Phillipians 1:20-26...



God is soveriegn. If God has determined that it's time for Mike to go home, then eating the power bars will not make a difference.



Mike should never give up on life. Live it till God comes for him. I think it was Bob Pure that said it " Call on God, but row away from the rocks! ". To me it means we should trust God, but be responsible with our choices. Peter still had to get out of the boat and act on his faith.


The outcome is the outcome. Like I said God is soveriegn, but would we like Mike to be around to share our lives with, you betcha.

Hope this helps. Blessings.

S&C

Wow S&C. Powerful words. I'll take them to heart. Thank you!!!! This is what I've been thinking. If God wants him to die, he will take him regardless of our efforts, but it's still worth a try I think.


Good news. He rec'd the power bars we sent to him & he is eating them. They are staying in his system. PTL! He LOVES them. He's been eating the heck out of them. Thank you Lord for answering this prayer for us.


Thank you for explaining the difference. If I may, I'd like to ask you another question. Would getting the chemo/radiation be fighting or living? In other words, when we're faced w/an illness like this, do we let nature take its course or do we get the treatment & pray for the best outcome? I like to think it's the latter.


I'm reminded of both the other times that Mike had tried to commit suicide. It was when his M was in turmoil. Once when he was in the basement & his daughter called him thereby saving his life. I had told him later that evening that it was God's way of speaking out to him. I knew this b/c when I tried to swallow a bunch of pills during my seperation, my son called out to me too. The other time he did attempt it. He was passed out & was rescued by someone, I'm not sure who, a family member & was gone from the boards for a few days. Everyone was worried & he then checked back in to say that he was just out of the hospital & he was okay. Being his illness was there when he first started posting on MB, and he didn't tell anyone, I think this was a big part of his suicide attempts as well as his marital status. I have seen him so confused & wondering why he was still living & I see him having those thoughts again & it scares me. I worry about him all the time.

I see him trying to trust God, hence the will to live by prayer alone so I think that he's trying but maybe looking in the wrong direction perhaps?

Thanks so much for talking w/me. It's really helping. Thanks for being my friend.

Y,


How much of a miracle is it that Mike is even alive today? If that is considered a miracle, then I'd say that God has a plan for him. And I'd tell him to consider the chemo.

Why is he still living? Why are any of us that have been saved still living? God has something for us to do.

Gotta do some work now. Talk to you later. Blessings to you.

S&C

Thanks S&C. I pray the message gets through to him. He seems to be keeping his promise to us to eat. He went through 6 power bars from the time he received them until he talked to A that night, which was a total of a few hours. I'm praying mightily hard on this one.

StandingTogether - please accept my apology for not checking in on this forum until now. I seldom check it anymore because conversations tend to NOT happen on this forum, for whatever reason.

However, you have asked about a difficult topic that, in it's many forms, we all have to face at some point in our lives. So let me try to add a little discussion for you to think about, and perhaps to explore a little in conversation.


"Jesus Wept." Two words, the shortest verse in the Bible. Yet they contain so much information about God's love for us AND that He KNOWS personally, not just "mentally" or "conceptually," what we FEEL. He became FULLY human and shared with us ALL that it means to be human, except for being sinful Himself. It's "okay" to cry. It's okay to feel pain when one we love is going through tough times and it seems as though there is nothing we can do. It's okay to feel hurt and outrage and anguish and the whole flood of emotions that assail us when our "one flesh" is suffering.

God CARES. The Father also cares, but did not remove the Cross from the Son because he "cared more" for Mike, for you, for me, for all of us, than for the "temporary pain and suffering that was for the ultimate 'greater good.'"

But TODAY, and every day, we have Jesus Christ who intercedes daily on our behalf with the Father. A priest in the order of Melchizedek.....in the simple words of a "children's song," "What a friend we have in Jesus, all our sins and griefs to bear, what a priviledge to carry, everything to God in prayer." He hears. He knows. He feels. He understands. He intercedes now and until the second coming. HE is our focus.

Would we even know the name of Jesus today, if the Cross was not necessary? Would we be able to KNOW and RECEIVE God's comfort, peace, and healing in times of trouble, if the Cross did not STAND for God's love and caring while we were all unworthy and undeserving?

"For God SO loved the world that He......"
Comforts me so that I can comfort others with the same comfort that I myself received from God.



The simple answer is you DON'T let him "go" without a fight that does not involve your having to sin. The outcome is in God's hands, but God only asks you to STAND for Him and for what He has taught us. Paul had his "standers" (Barnabas, and even Mark, and others) to help him, even when he sinned and when he wanted to be "at home with the Lord." We all have our "roles" to fulfill, and sometimes that is as simple as letting those we love know that while it's okay and good to "want to be home with the Lord," God uses ALL the circumstances in our lives to work for good in the lives of those who love Him....and that includes the lives of those TOUCHED by his surrenderedness to God.

You see, the OBJECT of our faith is NOT the "Fruits of the Spirit," the OBJECT of our faith IS Jesus Christ Himself. IF we remain focused on THAT object, the "fruits" will be a natual outcome of that "proper focus."

In the context of the difficult situation you, Mike, and everyone affected by Mike's illness find yourselves, it would perhaps be a good thing to revisit Philippians 4 again. We don't "let" our JOY be dictated by the circumstances of our lives. We derive our JOY directly from Christ and what HE has already done for us. NOTHING can separate us from that JOY because Christ transcends ALL the circumstances in our lives. YES, we will sometimes feel pain, sorrow, anguish, hurt....but Christ was there before us. HE has borne them all for us so that IN HIM we can have both peace and JOY regardless, because HE, not our circumstances, is the SOURCE of our joy, happiness, contentment, and peace. We HAVE such a great hope BECAUSE of Christ, and not because of any circumstances (good or bad) in our lives.

S & C said it well, we DON'T let someone "go" without a fight. But there IS a time when all of our "fighting" will not be "enough." God has a plan for each of us. God uses the circumstances to impact not just our lives, but the lives of those around us...family, friends, doctors, nurses, etc. God HAS already "numbered our days" from before we were born. It IS God who is "in control," even though we often are affected by living in a fallen world and susceptible to disease, hurt, etc. Just remember that NOTHING happens without God "allowing" it to happen.

So as in the idea of the "glass is half empty or the glass is half full," for a Christian the issue is "God is the center and focus of my life or self and circumstances are the focus." Either way, the FOCUS (the object of our focus) is what determines everything else and is WHY we can have (or not have) JOY in our lives when the "difficulties, trials, and tribulations" of life impact us personally.

Some would call it "head knowledge versus heart knowledge." But the point comes back to a surrendered life and WHO we have chosen to surrender it to. Christ is WORTHY of our surrender....and HE is faithful to ALL of His promises to us as we walk with Him and focus on Him before all else.

That is what most will not "get" or refuse to "get," all because of the need to FOCUS on the "right object."

God bless....and please tell Mike that I am looking forward to meeting him now or in the future we share.

I try to picture in my mind during prayer or worship, handing thatloved one over to God

FH,

Thank you so much for your response. I don't come here as often either b/c it seems that most people come in to want people to pray for them yet don't really submit to God & His will for our lives, not even following scriptural advice from others who can help them stay focused on God through this difficult time. If it wasn't for God leading me to all of you on this particular forum, The Prayer Forum, I would have given up on my M & done things my own way instead of God's way, so for that, I come here now & again to pray for the others & maybe, sometimes, get a little encouragemetn for myself.

What you have to say is so powerful & true. Whenever I talk w/Mike, he is so full of joy. Pained, broken, sick, feeble, but happy deep inside. He has found peace & I even told him that for that, I'm grateful. He has found pleasure in the smallest things & the most pleasure w/God Himself. I have always prayed for that first & foremost, that he find God, whom he lost so long ago. That says a lot about Mike, doesn't it? I keep praising the Lord for helping Mike to find Him in Mike's dark place. Mike has risen from the deep & finally found HIs creator, His sustainer.

You're right though. It is very painful to see someone we love hurting, wanting to just jump out & help in any way possible. Mike is doing what he can to survive for the time being, something I asked him to promise me he would do. He has done that. And from the power bars we sent him, he was able to gain 2 more lbs. When I talked about doing all we can do, I was talking about things within our human control. I know that it is ultimately God who is constantly guiding, leading, being the caretaker of Michael & seeing him through this. I know that God has a purpose in all of this, it's just so hard to find it. And I'm resigning to the fact that I won't know until it's in hindsight.

Perhaps God's will is just for us to show Mike that someone loves him outside of his family & that he has affected us so greatly by being present in our lives. We can almost always be guaranteed a laugh when we talk w/him b/c of his upbeat spirit & good nature. He is truly a blessing to all those who know him & I look forward to the day as well when we see Mike face-to-face, either here or in our Heavenly kingdom.

Thank you friend for responding. I pray all is well w/you.

Diamondz,

I have handed Mike over to God many times. I know though, once is sufficient. I just can't help myself sometimes.

I'm so sorry to hear about Mike Schluter and I sent a small donation. I can't think of anything - or anyone - I've ever been able to turn over to God just once without trying to take it/them back again. Discerning God's will from my will isn't always easy. I'm sure Mike is grateful to have you walking beside him as far along the lonely road he's travelling as you can. At the end, we all have to walk the final steps alone with only God at our side. Mike is blessed to have such good friends and such deep faith.

StandingTogether - I'm going to try very hard to say this so that it does NOT come across as "uncaring" or "unfeeling," or even as some "holier than thou" sort of thing. But I want to say this for you to think about because it often is a "piece of the puzzle" that is hard to see because WE are standing "too close to the trees."

You said; "I have handed Mike over to God many times. I know though, once is sufficient. I just can't help myself sometimes."

It goes without saying that Mike has always been, as a Christian, in God's hands and in God's care. "Handing him over," is really US releasing our "efforts" on behalf of someone else TO God, acknowledging that whether we "understand" or not, we KNOW God does and ALL things work together for good in the lives of those who love Him and are called by Him.

The part that is often "overlooked" in this "handing over" is that we need to "hand over" our own selves MORE than someone else needs to be "handed over." Jesus has said it plainly...."NO ONE can snatch them out of My hand." Jesus was NOT overly concerned about the "here and now" on earth(he WAS concerned, as evidenced by all the healing that was done), but was most concerned about our eternal condition with God.

HOW Mike handles his medical condition is up to Mike, and it is obvious that he is handling it WITH God, regardless of the "present outcome." And you can bet that God will be, and is, using both the condition (that bad things can, and often do, happen to believers as well as unbelievers) AND both the response of Mike himself AND those who are "near" Mike to mold and shape their responses and their own walk with the Lord.

It is a time of "surrender" to the sovereign Lord for everyone. Sometimes it IS unfair, as it was with Job. But the "message" is clear....REGARDLESS of the circumstances we encounter in THIS world, God IS with us and waiting to take us in HIS arms, both now during the struggle and in the future where there will be no pain, struggle, or death.

When we focus on Christ, this world shrinks in size and importance. But it's so much easier for us all to focus on ourselves and our circumstances and it takes a CHOICE to humbly surrender our will to God and to "abide" in Christ.

When faced with the physical trials of the type that Mike is dealing with, even the devastastation of infidelity doesn't seem quite so big....because we see the wisdom and the truth in surrendering not only the other person, our spouse, etc., but OURSELVES to God.

I have no idea who Mike might be impacting outside of his wife and you and your husband, but I suspect there are a lot of people, especially unbelievers, who are SEEING a surrendered life worked out in front of them. It IS the HOPE that all Christians have that IS the strongest witness AND the strongest comfort in times of trial and tribulation.

And when we ourselves learn that lesson, we also find God's peace.

God bless. And give Mike a hug and tell him "thanks" for all of us and that we are praying for him.

FH & S&C,

Thank you both so much for walking me through this. It hurts so much to watch Michael deteriorate, but I rest in the fact that Michael has found his relationship w/Jesus & he is at peace right now. In pain, but in peace. He has such a love for the Lord. The Lord has decided that it's Michael's time to be w/Him now. We can see it coming. It's only a matter of time. H & I are going to see him in a couple of weeks. I pray that Michael holds out until then.

Lord,

Thank you for performing a miracle in Michael's life, in all our lives. The miracle is just knowing Michael & his family. You have given us such a blessed gift in knowing Mike. You have given Michael his miracle of a saved marriage & a wife that loves him & is there for him. That's all Michael wanted before he passed on & You have provided that for him. Thank you, Lord. We know that through You, all things are made glorified. Through Jesus Christ, I pray. Amen.