Hello all,

We have been married eleven years. My tale is like so many others. We married young, I was only 17, she 19. I will try to make this the short version.

We had been married for a few years, had a daughter, and went on a vacation to visit my brother, he lived a few states away. While on that vacation, my wife and my brother had a ONS. She told me the next morning, and I was devastated. We decided to stay together, and work it out. We did. It was in the past. I forgave them both, and in time, we all started getting together again. We had two more children.

Fast forward a few years, five or six. Last December, my wife indicated that she wanted to be alone. She had been suffering from depression, and she seemed to just want to get away. She left me at the first of the year. She started contacting my brother right as she moved in with a friend. She was lying to me this whole time she was away, saying that she just wanted to be alone.

Then she came back, and she was not normal, very depressed. So she moved out again, this time to her own apartment.

They had sex twice, that they will admit to. They live two hours apart, so it was hard for them to get together more. They did have a lot of cyber-sex, online via IM with cameras. She had been thinking about him since we started hanging out with him again a few years ago.

I found out these details after asking her these questions last Saturday. The pain has started over for me.

She is home now. We are in MC. I don't feel like she is opening up. I am so confused. I am back to not eating, and crying a lot, when I am alone.

I don't know what I am asking. I know that I am hurt, and hurt badly.

When I ask her if she is sorry, she says that she is sorry that she hurt me, and that's all.

I feel now that I should not have let her come back home. We have three young children, and I could not just give up.

In the beginning, when she was leaving to be alone, I found comfort at the www.ojar.com website. Now, I feel like I belong here.

I am hoping the MC helps to open her up. I have been feeling like giving up on our relationship.

I love her very much, but since this is the second time...?

I think the most painful part, is that she would probably still be with him, but he did not want a relationship. In our first MC session, she said the he called her just a "piece of [censored]" and that's all. She wanted more than that from him. She claims no contact, but when I asked, she said he IM her the other day to ask about me, and that was it.

She does not even care about our kids, she could "take them or leave them". And she proved that by leaving them with me when she left.

~hurting.

Your brother??? Two A`s with your brother???

Oh dear. What is WRONG with your brother???

You two cannot have anymore contact with him you know. Ever. Of any kind. No matter what.

I don`t know if this is going to work out for you but the best shot it has for working out is for you wife to have some personal counselling for herself, besides the MC with you.

It`s bad enough when a spouse betrays you but when they do it with a close family member and more than once it`s an indicator of some SERIOUS issues. Your W needs help.

Your brother needs a kick up the a*se. He did this TO YOU for just "a piece of [censored]?" Was he dropped on his head as an infant or what? You really need to stay far away from him.

yes, my brother. First time I guess a mistake, second time, your right, no contact. I told him when he admitted it that he is dead to me.

She should be too, but as the mother of my children, and the fact that I still have feelings for her....

If you wish to give your W another chance then that is your choice. People can and do change if they address their issues. Does your W want to have some counselling on her own?

I`m not an expert but I think her problems run deeper than just martial issues for her to have chosen to do this with your brother on two separate occasions.

Does she have any problems with drugs or alcohol?

she does not have any problems with drugs or alcohol, but when she does have them, she becomes very flirty and easy.

She went to a counselor on her own, then we went together. She is on an anti-depression drug now, in fact she started it last month.

How often does this happen?

Daisy,

Not very often. I'd say like less then ten times in eleven years. Not really a big issue. Although, I will discourage drinking when we go out together.

Alcohol is not that important to either of us. I have a fridge full of beer, and it stays full. I only drink once and a while.

So you are pretty sure that drugs or alcohol are not a factor in all this.

Are you sure that the original A was only an ONS? Is it possible that either started back up before she moved out or that perhaps it never ended the first time?

You need to be very careful here and put your needs and those of your children first. I don`t know if your W can be helped or not. She might not want to be helped. What do you think? Do you feel that she is committed to recovery?

If she is then terrific but make her put her money where her mouth is and seek regular counselling for an extended period of time.

But if she`s not willing to do this then perhaps you should rethink your options. Getting a D is painful and difficult (I went through one too years ago) but it`s not the worst thing that can happen to you. The worse thing that can happen to you would be to spend years on end putting yourself and your children through regular turmoil with an unrepentent and unchanged W who continues to cause the family pain.

This is not up to her, it`s up to you. This is your choice. You choose to make a happy peaceful life for yourself and your children. And your W can either choose to be a part of that by seeking help or choose to be excluded from it if she doesn`t.

Daisy,

I am very sure that the first one was a one night stand, because he lived in Georgia, and us in Illinois. I was with her all the time, and there was no way to travel.

She seems not to be able to hide this kind of thing. It eats her alive. She had to have her councilor tell her to tell me about the second time. She was not coming back because she did not want to tell me.

I am not sure about her commitment to recovery. She indicates that she wants to know how/why she can hurt me so badly. She feels that she just does not know. How much of her depression plays in this is undetermined.

She is willingly going to the MC with me. (But we just started, last Thursday was our first, and next Thursday our second.) We both want to know the reasons for her unhappiness, and A.

Life is not so bad, we do not fight. We show each other love. Its just she wont communicate, and I don't have good communication skills either. I want nothing more than to talk to her, but my head only thinks of "how could you do this to me???", not good conversation material. I feel like I have to save my questions for MC. Because she does not have any answers.

Maybe it`s just me but I don`t see your W`s betrayal in the same way that I see your brothers. I don`t think your W did this TO YOU, I think she just did it. I don`t think she did this with the express purpose in mind of hurting you. Your brother on the otherhand I am not so sure...

I think the most that can be said is that you didn`t factor into her decision at all. So while she may not have meant to hurt you, she didn`t think about it either. That`s true of most WS`s. They are simply not thinking about the BS at all. They don`t want to hurt us but they don`t factor us into their decision either.

Your wife will need to figure out through counselling why she felt the need to sleep with your brother inorder to soothe whatever is troubling her in her life. Something is obviously deeply troubling her. She will need to learn new coping skills through counselling. But if she refuses to do this then you are under no obligation to stick by her and allow your whole family to be pulled down with her.

There is nothing wrong with talking to your W and letting her see how this is affecting you. You can do this without letting things get out of hand. She should know how this has devastated you. It is part of the healing process for both of you. When you trigger you must allow her to comfort you so that she can feel she`s earning back your love. How do you react when she does talk to you?

You need to make it safe for her to talk, you can express how you feel but a non-threatening manner. A WS who is afraid to speak about the A is not uncommon. Most of them don`t want to talk about it initally. You can help her tby remaining calm and actually thanking her for being truthful and opening up. And keep the A conversations short. Just a question or two at a time. When your W realises that you are not going to explode and the conversations are not going to go on for hours on end she will become more willing to talk.

To build a strong M you and your W are going to need to learn how to communicate. Have you read the whole MB site yet?

Daisy,

I was calm during our talk about the A. In fact, we were dining at Steak N' Shake when I asked her the questions about it that were floating in my mind. I had ordered before I started asking questions, and by the time the food came, I was almost sick, so I could not eat it. I could smoke like a chimney though.

I have been reading this website for a while now, and looking at the articles. I hesitate to acquire the books at this time, because I want to stick with what our MC says. I don't want two different paths. I have read "surviving Infidelity", and that was a good read.

I have to leave soon, but will check back tomorrow. thanks for taking your time out to chat with me, and have a good night!

It might not hurt to have a look at some of the books, you may find that some of the material overlaps. As you go through recovery you may find that several books on different subjects such as boundaries, toxic people and forgiveness might be helpful.

Have a good evening.

FOT, what is the MC telling you to do?

Longhorn,

The first and only session we have had so far was more like a meet and greet. We told him our situation, and told him how we came to meet and get married. Tomorrow is our first "real" session. I am looking forward to that, see what happens.

About your brother, this is not the first time I have seen this situation on the boards.

This is tough because it`s hard to explain to the family why you can never have contact with your sibling again. You know you have to have complete NC with him forever.

Does your family know what happened? Is your brother married? I am bringing this up because the first step in recovery is NC. How are you going to handle this?

Father of 3,
How about asking your MC to follow the MB plan?
Just a thought.\
JE

You have to be careful with MC`s because like anythibng else you will have good ones and bad ones.

Where I live you can call the pyschiatric assoc and ask for references. They know who the good ones are. You can also ask for MC`s who specialise in infideltiy. And when you find an MC you can ask them about their stats, how many couples they counsel remain married. Some MC`s are very pro marriage but some are not so you have to be careful.

If Father of 3 has found himself a good MC the MC will be pro marriage and should have a concrete plan to work on. And I think it would be similar to MB. Not identical but along the same lines.

Daisy,

It will not be difficult to have N/C with him. Our parents are gone, we only have a step father, and grandpa in common. We never was close to any of our family, so avoiding him will be easy. No weddings, maybe one funeral, no reunions. I have an older brother that lives with him, but he now knows, and understands why we would never again visit or call the house.

Family affairs must be the worst. My brother betrayed me big time. After she left me to "be alone", I would call him for comfort. He would talk to me as if nothing was going on. I even asked him. During all this, we even went and visited them, played poker late into the night, swam at our hotel together. He is scum. He had every opportunity to tell me what was going on, he blew it, big time.

Family A`s are bad but there are so many variations when it comes to A`s it`s hard to discern what would be the absolute worst circumstance. They all come with some kind of horrible mitigating factors. But since sounds like NC is not going to turn into a huge family kerfuffle that is one less hurdle for you to overcome. This is good.