Lexxxy,
I have to reply to your last (long) post to Dazed... I must say that that was one of the most insightful posts I’ve read in 6 + years here….I have so much respect for you right now… I have always had a lot of respect for WSS that had the courage to come here with all the very open wounds that are here…waiting to pounce to re-direct their pain.

But I have an enormous amount of respect for you right now after reading a LONGER than usual post from you…you are in my eyes someone that …I can’t even explain how important you are to this site…You should save that post (I did!!) and paste it in for the new bees so they can “get it” faster. If I were Harley I’d try and hire you to make sure you stay here forever…. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

A lot of WSS have been driven away from MB by people who can’t understand that a WS is a person too and (I don’t know if you read a post I wrote a couple of pages back on Dazed”s new thread but if you haven‘t I wish you would) and that the “vows” the BS breaks (to honor and cherish for example) are JUST as important and critical to a healthy Marriage as fidelity. And when you break THESE vows… you are JUST as wrong as a person that has an affair… just a LOT more politically correct.

When someone has an affair… people look down on that person …and the witch hunt begins… punish…expose….drive them to “rock bottom” etc… Where were this people when my W changed her day off so she could be with me on MY day off. She was SOOOO excited the day she told me… it was a “surprise” she had tried for months…!! And what did I do?… I told her that was my day to play golf…”I only have ONE DAY OFF!” and I told HER she was selfish because she didn’t want me to play…

At first she spent her time finding things to do… then she spent the days alone crying… wondering why the man she loved so much , who worked all the time didn’t want to spend his ONLY day off with her…THEN… she found a man who thought she was important enough to meet in a parking lot for ten minutes if that was all the time he could get…..
This was just one of the MANY things I did (out of stupidity not lack of love)to make my W think she was the LEAST important part of my life.

Anyway….Your incite to Dazed below really hit home for me.



I wish you were here when my W and I re-married after her affair “ended” because she told me the very same thing (still does) but unfortunately, the affair…divorce…marriage to OM (for a few months she wanted "her life back" after 4-5 months)….divorce from OM and re-locating and then re-marriage….. left us NOT in a financial situation for her /us to do this…and… she just can’t let go of the anger you wrote about.
I know my Wife still loves me, and although I can‘t feel love for her right now I know I still love her…(we just talked for 5 hours the other night ….. the night after she filed for D ……again) but we can never be together again.. WE…. WE…not JUST her… have done too much damage to me.. Her… us.,.. And of course our Marriage. I think if we were alone for a while….if SHE were alone (really alone) for a while with professional help… we might be OK today.

It’s really sad <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />that people can’t learn what is important BEFORE all this happens. They should make people take a course like HNHN BEFORE they will even issue a marriage license…

Sorry for the rant I really just wanted to tell you first how much I respect you … and secondly that I understand better than most that what you have been beating yourself up for (or have in the past)…… the vows you broke… weren’t any less important to your marriage than whatever your H did to make it possible.
God has blessed you Lexxxy… People here are Blessed that you are here …..you are a incredible person. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> GOOD LUCK AND PRAYERS FRANK

bump

Lexxxy-
PH is right. YOU hit described where she is so perfect that I almost think that maybe you might be Mrs.Dazed.
I am serious...

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Your lives (dazed and WW's) are running a parallel course right now. You and your wife are on different paths.

She can still see you from where she is. I think much of what you have done has had a HUGE impact on your wife. You have done exactly what you needed to do to show that you will not live your life or treat your marriage the way you did before. You're the kind of dad and husband she wanted and needed. She knows that. You've reached her.
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Yes, I totally agree... The letter that WW wrote to her sister confirms that she likes the way I am now. Yet still not ready to trust in me staying this way.

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She's under extreme pressure and stress. Those who post about "games" and the WW enjoying the attention of two men are so wrong. She's about as unhappy as a person can be.
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Yes, that is exactly true. OM is pushing her like crazy to move out and make her choice. WW told me again two nights ago that he has given her another ultimatum to be out of the house this week and they are two leave town all week end to protect her from ME turning her head back around.

Yes, WW is so unhappy right now that she just Tuesday started taking LEXIPRIN antidressants. She has been completely consumend by this affair and divorce. Most mornings she crys as she tries to get herself ready for work. I looked at a picture of her and I together that was taken a couple of years ago. I still can't get over how full of life she looked. She looked so happy. Her eye's, smile, and just the way she held herself just set off a glow... I cried looking at that picture for an hour. Not just because she was with me holding each other... Because I could compare and see such a huge change in her. She is far gone and shattered from who she was it is just so sad.

I thought her starting antidepressants would be a good thing but I am not sure if that will take her further away from reality or not. My first thought is yeah, great. Now OM will not be able to push her so easily and get her to make an emotional reaction.
Second thought, maybe this will take the edge off of what OM does and she will not see him as such the monster he is.

What do you think?
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She is paralyzed. She simply cannot make a decision right now. To her, both choices are bad.
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She has said many times.... I am stuck... I can't move... It's like I am trapped between the two of you.
She said again two nights ago........
You do things that are good and I like. But he does things that are good that you don't do that I like. He also does things that are not good and I don't like. Things I think to myself and say, Dazed would never do that to me...
Then there are the things you did that I did not like and I have a hard time not getting angry when I think about them.

This confirms what you said... She does not trust either choice right now. I have become the person she man she always wanted while he has become a person she is scared of.
Yet, our past still haunts her.
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She feels like a complete mess and a complete failure. She cannot understand why either one of you still want her. In a way, she is hoping that her indecision will cause one of you to give up on her. That would relieve a great deal of guilt and stress of actually making a choice.
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OMG- She said exactly this to me. EXACTLY.

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Choice #1 -- Dazed.
She knows that you have changed. But she hasn't forgiven you for letting her down so greatly. She is very angry with you. It takes THIS to make you change. You weren't willing to do it FOR her, but only now to KEEP her. She doesn't trust your changes. She thinks they are only temporary to "win" this fight for her -- then it will go back to how it was.
If she stays with you, this "affair" has changed the balance. Now instead of you being the bad guy for letting her down, she is the bad guy for the horrible things she's done. You look like the hero because your neglect doesn't look as bad as her affair.
There is a lot to overcome with all the family relationships, she feels like she's caused a lot of damage. Everyone has changed their opinion and respect for her. There is an overwhelming amount of work to do to repair everything. It seems far easier to walk away from it and just start over.
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OMG- She said this exactly...
She tells me about our past... I try to forgive you but I can't forget....
Also, if I had a dollar for each time she has said, "WHY DID IT TAKE THIS FOR YOU TO CHANGE"?
She is very scared that I am not going to stay this way. OM tells her all the time that I am a fraud.
She said somethting that sticks out in my mind. Before she tells me anything bad about OM she says, "NOW IF I TELL YOU THIS STUFF YOU WON'T USE IT AGAINST ME LATER WILL YOU". I finally figured out why she says this...
She told OM everything and more about her marriage and also what I am doing. He loved this until he started hearing about my changes and how she liked them. Then he started telling her to never say my name again around her and really started pushing for divorce and get her out of our home. He new I was still very much alive inside her and he could not take it.
So my point is... He bashes me all the time now and keeps throwing our past up in her face and uses that to scare her about staying with me. This is part of his mantra of trying to tell her that he is her only chance to be happy. He ties me to everything bad and supports it with the information she gave him.

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Choice #2 OM.
She knows its not a healthy relationship. She knows its obsessive and addictive. But she can't relieve herself of the obligation and guilt she has over all he has done for her.
She feels like she owes him. During the course of their relationship she has made promises that at the time seemed right. But now when she is faced with actually having to fulfill them, she sees that its not as simple as she thought. She really beleived at the time that she made these promises that her husband would just let her go. He never seemed to care about her all that much, the divorce would be pretty amicable. She never imagined that she would be faced with giving up custody of her daughter. When she made those promises to OM, she thought her marriage would end amicably, daughter would adjust and accept OM, families would adjust and accept OM.
When she made those promises to OM, she didn't realize she would be giving up so much. In her heart, she doesn't want to go through with it. But she doesn't know how to get out of it.
No matter what choice she makes, she is going to devastate someone. Since she's already devastated dazed and daughter, it seems like she should just continue on that path.
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Again you are so right it is scary... I am still not sure that you are not Mrs.Dazed?
She tells me all the time that she is horrible for what she has done. She feels sorry for him and that his stalking is because she did agree to his plan and promisses of them two being together. To did make many promisses to be with him.
She tells me all the time... I feel so guilty that he is all alone because of me.
She has realized that he is obsessed and was from the start. She also knows that he left his wife before they were official and she told him to go home many times. He convinced her at the time there married was doomed and over. Now he changed all that and tells her he left his wife because the two of them were suppose to be together. He did it for WW along with buying things for his house and him getting into trouble at work... All for WW...
She feels extreme guilt and sorrow for him.
Yet knows there relationship is not healthy and she will never have a life that her and him dreamed of.

She did think that I wanted a divorce and did not love her any more. She did think that she could just remove me and insert him. He helped her believe this... He told her all the time how much her daughter would love him and when her friends and family got to meet him they would all love him.
I think of that scene from dumb and dumber when loyd was dreaming of being with Mary and her friends at the sky lodge and they all loved him... lol
That is what I think of how this OM was dreaming of being with our family.

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I am very concerned about her going to him. It may be such a controlling and abusive situation that she may not be able to get out. My heart breaks for her.
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I THINK THE VERY SAME THING.......
Trapped like a prisoner is exactly what I think to. I asked her one time what she would do when he takes her keys and locks her in and makes it so she can't leave... She said, I will call you and you will come rescue me... She said this playful like a little kid... However, I believe her...
We all know that will not be so easy for her to do. Just the other week when OM called me to yell at me and she was there in the back ground screaming at him... I sent the police over to give her a chance to leave.
It was after the police left that he took her car keys, cell phones, and slept by the door... She could not come home until he left for work... She said, she set awake all night waiting for a chance to get the keys from him and leave. She said twice she tip toed across the room to sneak out the back door and each time he woke up and yelled at her to set down.
Just think how bad this would get when he does have her there for good....

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She has so much personal recovery and healing to do. She's not good partner material for either one of you. And she's not good mommy material either, she's too focused on the affair, divorce, and her own pain. It would be best if she were alone for awhile to come to terms with what she's done and forgive herself.
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WW was always a good person that believed in doing the right thing... She NEVER was a taker in any way before.
She is a shattered woman right now.
I agree, she can't function as a wife or mother right now..
She questions if she ever will again.... She is worried that her daughter will never re-connect to her.
If OM would stay away from her, I agree. I have suggested she stay with her mother or sister before talk of divorce and apartments and living with OM started up.

Just this morning her sister suggested to me that she try to take WW for the week end or at least Saturday so she would not have to deal with OM.

Also her Aunt invited her to come visit her in TEXAS in two weeks. Her Aunt is also putting her marriage back together with her husband that she did divorce and leave for an OM. WW has told me that her Aunt is now back with her husband after she did divorce him and left with her OM.
From the surface I thought this seemed like a good person for WW to be talking with.
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She is not ready for recovery. She is still deep in fog city and has not even come to terms with the damage she has to fix with our daughter much less me.

I think that this OM will not go easily. He is nuts, and if he really thinks he has lost everything to be with my wife then he is dangerous.

It bothers me that if she makes the choice to stay home and dismiss that he will not see that as the end and will still be there pressuring her.
She has a job that gives him complete access to her anytime he wants it. Also, we do not live in big city. Unless things end with OM on a level that WW hates him, I see a need to move away. Maybe do that anyway.

Thank you LEXXXY--- Your observation of my WW is so close that I really do think she could have written it...

Thanks so much Frank!
I'm glad you're here too -- we all have a lot to share!

Thanks Dazed -- I'll try to post more later.
Late for a meeting!

Lexxxy, I have to agree with Frank and dazed on this. You really have a knack for describing what the WW is thinking and I feel like it makes so much sense.

I would link that post you made so others can make use of your incredible insight.