Good. So, what will you do about it? You have a choice. You can stop being selfish and dishonorable and become an upstanding man again.


Okay. Dorry hit on it very well. I thought you were a Christian based on your initial posts. You are right. If you arent a Christian, then it is your responsibility. So, unless you are interested in what God wants, I will stay away from that.

But there still is the issue of being a man of good moral character. Of being an honorable man. There is no way you can have an affair, divorce your wife and then start up wit hthe OW...and be an honorable man. That is impossible! Even if you end up marrying and living the rest of your life with the OW (highly unlikely), your marriage will have an asterick next to it. It wont be real love. It wont be a marriage to be proud of. That is because at its foundation, is rot. Rot from the way it began, the way it started. It will always be flawed.

That is the opposite of your marriage. At the basis, the foundation, is something honorable. Which means you can fix and rebuild on something stable and honorable.

Choices! What we are trying to help you see is that it is time to start making good ones again. We really do want to help. Dorry used to get mad at me when I talked to her this way. Now, it is funny to hear her say the same things to WSs. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

TwistedT, we really do care. And we know what works here. But you will have to agree to take the first step back toward honor. We can help you from there.

In His arms.

I guess I should not have used God in one of my replies. That comment about God was in reference to someone telling me to "OBEY GOD".

Contrary to what you may think, I was brought up pretty well, and I know right from wrong. God didn't tell me what I was doing was wrong. It's only common sense that it is wrong. Nevertheless, I did it and now I am in this predictament.

Okay. So, do you want to get out of this predicament?

In His arms.

I think Twisted has made it clear that he is not religious enough for the biblical righteousness tactic to work for him. I think we should steer away from any more talk about God and religious morality if Twisted is going to get anything out of this.

If I've misinterpreted this point, I apoligize. It just seemed like we were getting off track.

The selfish answer is, I want to be happy. And that is what I'm struggling with. I fully understand that being happy will cause significant pain to those I love.

Ok, this is my take on it.

I'm the FWW. It's funny how all As are so special and unique yet every one of us FWSs comes on the board saying exactly the same thing. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Picture this TwistedT. You and your "soulmate" have got together, there's no longer the excitement of the greatest love affair the world has ever seen, partly because it's no longer sneaky, partly because it's reached the light of day.

She's just told you off for the umpteenth time about leaving your dirty socks on the floor or she spends the night with her head down the toilet because she has a stomach upset.

No passionate mind blowing sex there is there.

Real life is not affair life.

I knew that underneath it all the OM and I didn't have that much in common. And yes, I thought it was the love affair to end all love affairs and went through all the horrific withdrawal and everything else.

Jen, that may be your take and how it happened for you, but you don't have a clue in my case! Sorry!

Twisted, I think what everyone is trying to point out is that you shouldn't rule out the possibility of being happy again with your wife. If you use the affair to figure out exactly what's missing within your marriage, you might find that the grass is plenty green enough on this side of the fence.

Sounds like you need to figure out what's most important. I don't think you will find an answer to that in cyberspace to fit your needs. Your statement seems to contradict itself, you can't be happy with the ones you love...

You're 50 years old. Most likely what you are feeling is middle age crisis smothered up and hidden with an affair and that makes you feel like you've found your soul mate when all you've really found is a way to band aid the feeling of mortality.

Hey, I'm not a armchair shrink in real life, I just play one on TV.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

bronwyn, point well taken.

Oh wow. You have NO idea do you?

I'm sorry, I know you're in pain but I had to smile. Oh boy, my A was 18 months long. I was desperate to leave my H. I was your age exactly.

I could have written your first post when I was in the A. Word for word for word.

Hey Kiwi - can you jump over to cabinfever's thread? called we can only bear so much or something along those lines

I think you could help alot! Same cabin fever who has posted in this thread

T,

Welcome to the forum. First of all I want to say that I think it takes guts to post on here knowing that you really aren't sure whether you want to save your M or not & receiving posts you knew were coming, but are reading & absorbing them. I think w/a lot of reflecting, you'll take the info given to you & weigh it.

I just wanted to give you my perspective from a W who's H has chosen 2x to betray his M vows. Once was a ONS (one night stand) 13 years ago & then an EA (Emotional Affair) 2 years ago. He hid the information from me both times. I had to find out through others or my own digging & believe me, it hurt beyond words that he wouldn't be brave enough to tell me face to face the cold, hard truth.

The ONS, I didn't suspect a thing. I knew we were having problems, but never in a million years did I ever think he would sleep w/someone else. The OW told me about it & from his previous warning that something like this might be told to me b/c of a REVENGE tactic she had against their friendship going sour, I naively believed him & stood by him, calling her a liar. "My H would NEVER do that to me. You're full of crap." He kept denying for years. 8 years as a matter of fact. Until one day that everyone involved, including her H came to my house & refused to leave until he confessed the truth. He finally did. Do you know how incredibly HURT I was b/c I believed him & stood by him all those years? I felt duped. I felt humiliated. I felt destroyed. Afterwards, he told me that the reason he hid it from me was so I would be "spared the pain", exactly what you have described. I felt insulted by that remark. I wanted HONESTY from him. I wanted him to stand up & be the guy that he claimed he was. A man of honor. Honor was an important thing to my H. Still is. And he has ruined that honor, & he knows it by his actions.

Ok, we get past it. We move on. We try to have a better M. We never really discussed the ONS much. Just tried to put it behind us & move on. He SWORE that he would never be that stupid again.

Well, 2 years ago, I could feel him getting distant. The hugs/kisses/sex wasn't like it was so I knew something was wrong. I asked him, "Are you still in love w/me?" He says, "no." He wants to leave. We seperate. Something still is not sitting well in my belly about it all. So I investigate. 6 days later I find out that he has been having an EA w/a woman he met through work. It had been going on for 3 months before he decided to leave. When I confronted him, he admitted it. We ended up seperated for a total of 4 months. So his A lasted for 7 months. Granted, not as long as yours is, but he felt the same things that you have said you felt. She made him feel like "a schoolboy". She was giving him things I had NEVER, repeat, NEVER given him in all the years we've been M'd. He thought he had found his "soulmate". She was leaving her H for him & they were going to build a life together.

We got back together in Feb. '04 (if you want details of the seperation, I can give you those, but I thought I'd rap this up). Long story short, (well, not so short) we're a so much happier now than we've EVER been. It took this amount of pain & all the things we've been through to finally get the M we BOTH want. Now, you say that your W just knows that you're distant. She doesn't suspect anything. I beg to differ. Coming from a W who's been there, I can tell you that she suspects SOMETHING. She's not quite sure what it is, she can't pinpoint it, & when you tell her (if you tell her) that there isn't someone else, she's trying to believe you, but she's not so sure. But she doesn't want to mention anything in the case that you aren't & then you'll get angry w/her for doubting you. If she has asked you & you've denied, I can almost guarantee that when she does find out, & she WILL, believe me, if not by you or OW, someone else will tell her, she will be devastated that the one person she thought she COULD trust, would bold faced lie to her face.

Trust me T, my H kept telling me, "How can you trust me again? We can never have the M I want." He was missing so many things, but he finally remembered the reason why he M'd me in the first place. After a while, all he could think about was him being a part-time, weekend father, not full time at home with them like he was & not seeing me at all, ever. B/c I refused to be "just friends" with him. In time maybe, but then, no way. I wanted more than that & he knew it. He wanted us to part as friends, but I couldn't do that. It hurt too much.

The first 3 months that he came home, he slept on the couch. He didn't feel "in love" w/me yet. But we worked on it. We tried our best to do what was necessary to fix the wrongs that were done. And we're so thankful now that we did. We learned about A's & how devastating they are to all involved & we've done our homework on what it takes to make a good M. Did he "feel" in-love w/me? No, not then. Does he now? He'll be the first to say Yes. Those feelings come back, but the first step is to admit the wrongs you've done to your W & give her the best thing possible from a H -- honesty. Let her decide for herself if she still wants to be M'd or not.

TwistedT, I thought I was going to die from grief.

It says a lot about my recovery that I can now glibly say "horrific withdrawal."

That's how far removed I am from it all now (2 years later and happily with my H).

Debunking time:

1. Myth: your affair is the end-all to affairs.

No, when anyone spends time in deep discussions with a person of the opposite gender, coupled with other person also is missing something in his/her life, during which you both bond over the state of your lives, and eventually throw in some great SF (and it really doesn't matter how long it took to get to this point), you will be guaranteed emotional involvement with and a state of (temporary!!!) bliss around this person.

2. You can protect your wife by lying.

No, she already knows on some level that things aren't right (you mentioned counsiling). When you leave, she will further examine your actions, and you will sooner or later be caught with this other woman (OW) before or during the divorce.

3. You want to be happy, and this can only happy with OW.

No, your family will be disappointed. Your kids will hate you. Your wife will take much of your salary in alimony and child support, and she may sue OW for loss of consortium. People at your job will find out. Your pastor will lose all respect for you. You will find depression lurking in the absence of little idiosyncrasies of your former wife. You will miss your children, especially at Christmas and birthdays. You will NEVER be trusted by your NEW girlfriend, and you will NEVER trust her. Every long trip to the grocery store, every late night at work, will be met with anger and skepticism. Meanwhile, whatever relationship skill deficiency that got you to this point will still linger, unsolved, and will eventually fester in your next relationship as well.

So what to do?

You haven't loved your wife for 6 years? When was the last time you went on a date (with her)? Took her to a hotel w/o the kids? Met her for lunch? Talked with her about something important? Talked with her about something not important? Gave her a compliment? Bought her flowers? Did something fun together? Called her just to say hello? Ask her to do you a favor?

This love thing is so easy and yet so hard. You get what you put into it (so long as you learn to put into it the things that make your wife happy). WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO LOSE if you really try with your wife for 6 months, without contacting the OW at all (very, very important)? So, for the time being, don't tell your wife about the affair if you are incapable (although I don't believe this is the way to go) but do tell her you are looking to leave and you are unhappy. If you read the concepts at this site, have discussions with your wife about the concepts, fill out the questionaires, honestly (if you are capable of honesty) what do you have to lose? You waited 6 years for happiness, and apparently had it for 14 years before that. 6 months is do-able. It WONT be easy, but you have SO MUCH to gain. If nothing else, you'll be a better person, and admired by all if your SINCERE efforts should fail.

Please consider your options carefully.

Chobbs, wonderful post.

(Thanks Jen! Sadly, or perhaps not, I've had a long time to put these concepts into words.)


And Twisted, I forgot to mention: learn to negotiate with your wife for that which will make you happy. Which also means you have to know what your needs are and learn how to negotiate successfully to get your needs met.

Chobbs,

I agree, that was a very good post.

Movies, dancing lessons, flowers, dinners alone, exodic vacations together, etc have all been done in the last several years. So it's not like I have not tried to ignite the spark. I've just had an empty feeling in my heart for my W. And this was before my A.

I have a lot of thinking to do and a difficult decision to make.

Thank you!

T,

What exactly is it that you think you're missing from your M?

Have you TOLD her the spark was missing before your A? and gave her a chance to try to ignite the spark too?

If you didn't then you really didn't try

Takes two for a spark <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />