Twisted,

Thank you. However, those were generic examples. Do YOU know what gestures make you wife happy? Further, it is painfully obvious you have not learned to negotiate for the things that will make YOU happy? Do you know what your top needs are (see the emotional needs threads)?

And do you or your wife have issues with selfish demands? Angry outbursts? Finances? Sometimes our reactions to these irritating behaviors put us mentally where we will not accept having our needs met by our spouse (withdrawal). If this is the case, you and dw must first work on eliminating these so called love busters (LB) in order to recreate an atmosphere in which a happy marriage can thrive. When doing so, be sure to incorporate healthy boundaries.

I do hope you will give your personal growth, marriage, and children another chance. The rewards are exponential.

Also TwistedT, the A was ended by the OM because he wanted to work on his M. So I wasn't some remorseful WW returning to my marriage. My H found out about the A just before I was going to tell him anyway. The A had been over 6 months when he found out.

I thought his reaction would be to immediately kick me out and if he had I was going to run to the OM and wreck everybody's lives.

My H's reaction was shock, hurt, devastation but also total love and support. The depth of his love knocked my socks off. It was true, adult, unconditional love. I completely rethought everything and agreed to try to save our marriage. I was a real piece of work in the early days. I said things like "if the OM comes for me, I'll go to him.", "I didn't think you'd care one way or the other if I had an A" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> "We can still stay married. Does it matter if I don't love you." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

But it has all been worth it. The first few months of our recovery are just a blur to me now of pain and anger and hurt and soul-searching, but also love. As time has gone by I can only be very, very thankful that I didn't make the worst decision of my life. Which would have been to go to the OM.

Love and passion. There is just nothing there. And let me emphasize, these feelings were pre-A.

I know TT, that's how I felt.

But believe me, you can get it back.

See my long winded post to you above (which may have gotten missed b/c of the other responses). Mine was exactly the same. My H hadn't felt "love" for me for years, thought he could do it on his own to gain it back by purchasing flowers, getting me love cards, but the truth of the matter was that he was going about it the wrong way. Have you ever read The 5 Love Languages ? That book was a real eye-opener for both of us on how to love each other the way we each received love, which was differently.

My wife gives me anything I want. My home and family are just the way I would want them to be. Finances are okay, not great, but okay.

Gestures of affection are what makes my wife happy. This I have trouble with because I just don't have those feeling for her.

There is no anger or outbursts. We never have argued much. I just don't see any of these so called "love busters".

How has your W changed since you've been M'd to her? Think back to why you M'd her to begin with. What made you fall in love w/her at the beginning? Why'd you ask her to marry you?

TT, I hope you're reading above your posts.

Your marriage is SO like my marriage pre A that it's scarey. Your story and way of writing is also eerily similar to someone I used to post to but I'm sure you're not the same person!

Not arguing much is actually unhealthy. We never argued at all for 28 years. It's conflict avoidance and is also a "love buster."

I don't tend to buy into the "God" explanations that often show up on MB. No one can be sure of God's mind and no one can prove that their view of God is right.

Your life is out of alignment. It's out of alignment because you are not living with integrity. You made a commitment to your wife that she would serve certain roles in your life and you have filled some of those roles with another person. Would you want to be treated like you are treating your wife? Wouldn't you want her to have the decency to tell you she was unhappy before she started seeing someone else? Wouldn't you want to know that she would consider dating someonoe else so that you could start looking yourself?

The answers are obvious. You are breaking commitments you have made and you are not treating others the way you would want to be treated. You have a moral part of you and it's telling you that you are wrong.

You need to get your life in alignment again.

So you need to break it off with OW for a while. You are not doing her any favors by being involved with her during this period of her life. She needs to look back and know she left on her own, for her own reasons. So no phone calls. No email. No letters. Just a vague possibility that if you choose to leave your W that it might work out in the future. If you are really "perfect" then you will still be "perfect" in 9 months.

Then you need to tell your W that the marriage is not working for you and that you need it to get better. Both of you read HN/HN. Both of you read the 5 love languages. Get a conselor and tell the counselor that you both want to be in love again.

Good luck. You've managed to get yourself in a position where you are going to hurt and lot and where you are going to hurt someone else a lot. It's not going to be fun, but behave like an adult and start down the responsible path.

Okay, let's come clean now.

Wife Other Woman
Age
Height
Weight
Body 1 to 10
Looks 1 to 10
Personality
Sexual Prowess 1 to 10

Twisted,

Can I ask what kind of passion you speak of? We talking like sexual passion? Passionate about something? Or just the excitement of the OW and the A? Because that one is a false passion.
Also, from what you have posted, you seem very flat line. I mean, there doesnt seem to be any extreme in any direction.
Know what I mean?

But I am curious because my WH has said all the same things you are saying...Love you but not in love. Wants to be happy. Wants passion.
Can you explain your feelings on this?

Katie

But there is no reason why you can't get that from your wife! (I assume you are saying you used to generate those feelings for your wife.)

If this is the case, she is desparately missing something she can get from you! Women are born with a more complicated mechanism to reach this state, but it is usually a mere indication of how well her needs are met. You CAN meet them! And when you learn to meet them, she will respond in kind!

Don't get discouraged. If you are willing to educate yourself on the principles explained here (putting forth your best effort), and learn from those who have come back from the very point you stand, there is still hope for a great romance in your marriage.

And might I add, that my H couldn't pinpoint when he "fell out love", just that it happened & this was how he felt. I suspect it's the same thing as you. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but that's usually how it works.

I'm not drawn to my W. I have no deep desire to hug her, kiss her, or make love to her. There is just no desire on my part. She is certainly willing and able. But I reject her, and that of course hurts her. So I am talking about sexual passion, and also just a passion to love and please her emotionally.

Can you please answer my test profile above regarding W and OW. Just would like to see something.

Also, have you or do ever look at Porn, visit strip bars, etc. There is a reason I ask this.

Twisted,

Do you think your OW does something that your wife does not that makes you respond to her with passion? What is it that the OW has that your wife does not?
If given the truth and the opportunity, I am sure that you could have a wonderful passionate relationship with the woman you fell in love with 20 years ago.

But it is unfair to your children, your wife and yourself to not give your wife the truth of your affair. And to be given the opportunity, if she wants, to work on your relationship.

Wife Other Woman
Age 48 43
Height 5'7" 5'4"
Weight 138 not sure.....155?
Body 1 to 10 8 8
Looks 1 to 10 7 8
Personality 8 8
Sexual Prowess 1 to 10 8 10

Yes, I visit porn sites and have gone to strip bars in the past.

You will never know unless you give it a try. Which means cutting ties with OW for 6 months or so, in order to give your wife one last chance to be the sole provider of your marital needs, whatever they may be (and generally, just because 1 need is met doesn't mean ENOUGH needs are met to make a happy marriage (M)). At first you'll be despondant without OW who was fulfilling your needs unmet within the M. During your affair withdrawal, you will not allow your wife meet your needs. You don't want her to. SHE has caused resentment in YOU by ending your affair where your unmet needs were slavishly met on a part-time basis. THIS IS NORMAL. It is so important she understand (why?) you're not happy, so she has this time to improve herself and her own marital skills. When both you are ready, you can start meeting each others needs, and thus rebuild what has been torn down.

Twisted,

Check out this article: http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/conditions/02/14/science.of.love/index.html

It's a good description of what goes on when two people first meet. The love they feel for each other is actually a drug response to the Dopamine in their brains. This is also the reason you have those intense emotions and the feeling that you would leave everything to be with this person.

Anyway, my point is that this drug effect doesn't last forever. You probably had the same feeling for your wife at one time (in the beginning). Eventually this drug induced love is replaced with an attachment kind of love. This is what we all typically feel for our spouses when we are in long-term relationships.

I'm a programmer and a male, so this kind of scientific/logical stuff makes it all perfectly clear to me. Of course, I'm not in the middle of an affair though.

You are free to leave your wife and children. You are free to lose all of your friends worth having and the respect of your family and peers. But in the end, after the Dopamine in your brain is no longer secreted when you are in the company of this woman, you'll feel no more for her that you currently feel for your wife.

And on that day you will look behind you, at the pain and suffering that you left in your wake, and you will truly know loss and humility. You will look back to these days when you still had a chance to save your marriage and your family, and you be tormented.

Hi twisted: I am really, really going to get beat up bad with this post but I had one ****** of a past few days and my insight has probably became warped.
What does your heart say? I say follow your heart. Be a man about it and make the permanant separation from your wife, then follow your heart. Statistics are just numbers and I'm about sick of them. We all need to be happy and only we know what is best for us.
I've been fighting the exact same situation you are in right now. My OM and I relate on a level I never, ever related with my H. When I am in my OM's arms, which by the way has not happened very often, I am so comforted and feel calm and at ease. My H and I if I am to be honest have done nothing but fight the entire time we have been married. He is the most depressed, negative person I have ever met. Frowning is his thing. My OM has never frowned as his norm. Not saying I haven't seen him upset but it seems what is upsetting him is me going away permanately, you know what, I am really, really messed up inside right now. I am sick, as in my stomach is so sick I can't eat. NO not over being "in love with OM" but in what I have been thinking and doing. I have made 3 attempts to break it off, again today, I am still hanging in with OM. He doesn't want to let me go. I don't want him to let me go. I am going straight to ******. It is going to hurt, sting really, really, bad. Right now the way I feel, I am headed for a D anyway. He has been headed for a D anyway. We are both waiting for the "kids" to grow up and then we are going to leave. NO we didn't agree on that , this is something the both of us individual were planning to do before we ever met each other! We are miserable with the people we are with and are happy with the person we can't be with.
Follow your heart twisted, go ahead. Just do it right. I guess I am feeling so sick right now over what I have been thinking today because I know I am going to hurt my H the way I am hurting except his hurt will be a lot worse than mine. I am a dog, I am also in love for the first time in my life, what do I do, live the lie I have lived for 15 yrs or start living the truth? Are we not worth the happiness or should we just keep with people who make us miserable.
******, join that big divorce rate, then you take that little 3 percent success rate in A marriages and make it a success. I wouldn't be suprised in the least if you did. this board is about saving marriages. You won't find the response you are looking for to support your A. Of course we are going to get negative comments, this is pro marriage board.
I'm not a cheater, I've been cheated, go ahead say it.
It is possible that we marry the wrong people for the wrong reasons. It is also possible we can be big enough and admit it and fix it. People make mistakes. Just don't live a cheating lie, owe up, get out, and get on.
Sorry guys, just the way I feel tonight.