Subject: Need Advice

My wife and I have been together for eight years, three married. There was not much in the way of courtship as I kind of latched on to her. We both love each other but she says that she is not in love with me and she wants to experience that. She says she wants me to want to leave her. We are compatible, we get along, share common interests, enjoy a good sex life, but she says that she is not unhappy, but that she is not happy either and she wants to find someone she will be happy with. For my part I believe that this is fixable and have gotten her to agree to marriage counseling. My question is if marriage counseling can help and is this situation correctable. This is both of our first marriage, we are both 27, no children and she recently had an affair, however I still want to work through this.

Chris-

When was the affair?? It sounds to me like she is still *having* the affair.

The things she is saying are pretty standard for a Wayward Spouse. (i.e. I love you...but not IN love with you, I'm not happy...etc, etc)

If she is in an affair marriage counseling will not help. You have to find out the details of the affair. I would be willing to bet that she is still in contact with the OM (other man).

God Bless,

-Caren

The affair was very recent and according to her she ended it the next day after we decided to try counseling. However contact with the OM is still an issue as they are co-workers.

Chris, your wife is reacting in a classic fashion of a withdrawing wayward spouse. Her feelings will come back to you when she gets through withdrawal. It is part of the recovery process.

Has she ended all contact with the OM?

Get your hands on Surviving an Affair by Dr. Willard Harley so you can understand what has happened here.

Many counselors are not pro-marriage and often recommend divorce as a solution. If you get one of those, then your marriage is probably doomed.

But if you get one that is pro-marriage it would probably help. There are a couple of things I would recommend and that is reading this article by Dr. Harley about finding a good counselor. I would try and find one that uses Marriage Builders principles.

Guide for Recovery after and affair: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5065_qa.html

Surviving an Affair: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html

How to find a good counselor: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7100_counselor.html

ditto Caren - the affair is still in progress OR she has not let go of her half of it.

Please provide all the gory details. This is not voyerism on our part - the details are vital to understand your sitch.

This is fixable, but..... ...these facts sway me, personally, to advise you to cut your losses. You've experienced valuable life lessons that can be applied to a new and better relationships without the tremendous work necessary to salvage this one (which is not guaranteed).

Not all will agree with me and I and others here will help you either way.

This means the affair is still on. She will never withdraw from the affair as long as they work together. It will be impossible to ever recover under these conditions. Will she leave her job?

Be aware that this is a common tactic of wayward spouses (WS) who have no intention of ending their affairs.

They say they ended it, and agree to go to counseling, all the while NOT ending it and planning to be able to say - when counseling "fails" - that "At least I tried counseling and it didn't work."

Devious? You bet.

Counseling is worthatry <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> IF the affair has really ended AND she establishes no contact with the other man (OM). Otherwise counseling is a waste of $$.

We've seen it all before. Trust us.

WAT is absolutely right.

Is it really not possible for her to work at the same place (the work conditions do not warrant much close contact)? When confronted she said that she knew it would have to end as he was not going to leave his wife and kids, she is a very honest person and gave very straight forward answers to all my questions. She even said that she could give me no guarantees only that she would do her best. She feels guilt for hurting me and her parents and brother (all of whom love me deeply).

First off, I would notify the man's wife of the affair. That will help ensure that the affair does not resume and will allow her to protect herself from your W and her H. This will stop your W from pursuing him if his W knows of the affair. This may also resolve the problem by motivating one of them to leave their job.

Chris, do you imagine that an alcoholic could recover frm alcoholism if you sent him into the bar every day and gave him a beer? Because that is the perfect analogy of what we are dealing with here. I guarantee you that alcoholic would start binge drinking again because he could NEVER get the taste out of his mouth.

There simply will be no recovery unless your W leaves that job. She will never withdraw. Every time she sees him puts her back to Day 1 of recovery and it puts you back to Day 1 of recovery. Until there is no contact, there is no recovery.

I am sorry what you are going through but it sounds like your wife is still currently in the affair. It is absolutely essential for you to contact the OM's wife and expose the affair to her. She has a right to know and also it will stop your wife from being such a cake-eater. She is still continuing the affair emotionally and probably sexually as well. This in all likelihood will end immediately when you contact the OM's wife. The reality of the situation will kick in and the OM will dump your wife and stay with his wife if he can. If there are no consequences to him for screwing your wife then why should he stop? I wish you luck.

Dr Harley:

Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through ******. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.


<snip>

But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

Dr. Harley wrote this excellent advice to one our board members:

2334pem: While most affairs die a natural death in less than two years, there are some that take much longer to die. That's one of the primary reasons that my first rule in surviving an affair is to never see or talk to the lover again -- even if the affair seems to have died a natural death. An affair can rekindle after it seems to be over. And to guarantee complete separation between the unfaithful spouse and the lover, extraordinary precautions must be taken, such as providing radical accountability and transparency. In many cases, I've encouraged couples I've counseled to change jobs or even move to another state to help create permanent separation.

Another suggestion I make to a couple struggling to restore their marriage after one of them had an affair is to make the affair public. Everyone should know what happened -- children, relatives, friends, and especially the children and spouse of the lover -- so that the affair is exposed to the light of day. What often makes affairs appealing is that it is done in secret. Most affairs become very unappealing once everyone knows about it.

So whether an affair is a one night stand, or has been going on for years, the basic rule for ending them are the same -- extraordinary precautions to guarantee permanent separation. But I will admit that the precautions used for long-term affairs are usually more extraordinary than those used for short-term affairs. I've helped many spouses overcome affairs that have lasted over ten years, but none of them have been easy.

Best wishes
Willard F. Harley, Jr.