Good morning all,

Here is my response to my WW's e-mail saying she wants to be 'friends always, but nothing more.

"Dear WW,
You need to know, that I have not come this far to quit...that I will never give up on you. I refuse to believe that you will not choose the right...your children, your family, and your God, over a mess of pottage. That is what a true friend is! I vowed before God and angels that I would take care of you forever. You can toss that friendship aside if you choose, but that is who I am...your husband...your true friend! I will never accept being anything less!"

I woke up with this in my head this morning feeling that it was inspired. I'm probably going to e-mail this to her but I will wait til' I here from some of you.
RoT

Wow, you are really liberal with the nice, poetic words. Has that worked for you? Frankly, I would feel patronized if I were her. And since she is so detached, I would wager she would feel the same way.

Is she the kind that likes that kind of talk?

RT, this is just my take but I think that overly sentimental words offered to a person who is emotionally detached can only serve to push them away. I can see how she would feel OBLIGED to respond in kind, which is something a detached person cannot do. That can create resentment where none existed before.

It might also give her the impression that she can do the most disrespectful things imaginable to you and there will never be consequences. You will repay her with overly nice words. Not even the slightest rebuke or protest. That causes great disrespect. And women do not respect men they can run over. Many women do not love men they don't respect because thier love is very contingent upon the level of respect they feel.

Just something to consider.

RoT - without even knowing the details of yor story, I'm confident enough to advise you not to expect this message to reach her. (I'm assuming she is a typical WW in the throes of her affair.)

Remember who you're dealing with.

Re-read Rule #1.

Do not expect reason or logic to work as it would on a "normal" person.

She'll roll her eyes at the "never" and "forever" parts.

Melody and WAT,
I think I'm starting to 'get it.' Would the following note be more appropriate?

" I've been thinking...your e-mail to me about us 'being friends always,’ no matter what happens, and your not wanting to ‘be together,’ tells me that you are into your A deeper than ever. You are not being a friend to me. You can call it that if you want, but I'm your husband, not your friend. We used to be friends. We could be friends again, but only on the condition that you stop all contact with your affair partner, and that you work with me and the kids on healing our broken family."

WAT. I re-read rule #1...trying to do as you and Melody suggest...create more conflict. Is there a downside to this?
Thanks for saving me from myself!
RoT

As Mel & WAT has shown, the effort put into communication with a WS needs to be handled differently than normal people.

While your 2nd letter is more harsh, it is closer to reality than the 1st.

When my WS asked t/b friends, I asked back (reverse babble), what he meant by friends? I told him (in writing) that his idea of friends and mind were quite different now and so I needed to ask what should be basic understanding because I was not sure what he was basing his words and statements.

Yep, I let him know his babble was babble. I asked definitions of words and phrases before I commited my thoughts. That surely helped because the WS don't want to give their definitions, they want to mislead hmmmmmm.... like anyone else evil we know? Well when I figured that out, it scared the me straight. The more I saw the Ws, the more I saw the evil within and the influence of the most evil one with the OW being used to pull the strings.

In my case that helped me learn to communicate in a very careful manner. Getting the WS to define himself 1st, then I learned to babble back. It was a protection. Not always fun but definitely less painful than trying to reason with a nut.

L.

Hi, RiverOfTears.

"Dear wife. I have no intention whatsoever of being your friend outside the confines of our marriage".

All the best,
Gimble

Gimble,
Thanks. Would you please eloborate?
RoT

RoT - I would go with Gimble's version if you are convinced you should respond to the specific "friends" question. He's always on the level. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

But I recommend you not respond to this issue at all. It's a common trap laid by WSs to get BSs to piece by piece "approve" of what they're doing. Gimble's suggestion effectively springs the trap if you HAVE to respond - but you don't.

If you ARE he!! bent on responding, I recommend a Plan A letter that avoids the "friends" issue entirely unless you've already written one. See lizziedora's thread for an example.

WAT

I know Gimble's thought process well and it's a good one.

By instinct we allow get out clauses, bluntings of sharp messages and diplomacy to dilute our communications with active WS. Its horseapples. They screwing somebody else and expenecting us to be happy about it FFS !!!!

Don't be rude, avoid LBs but say it like it is.

"I have no intention of being your friend outside the confines of marriage. "

meaning

"I don't need 'friends' who break my heart then ask me to be nice to them. You're dayum lucky I'm still willing to work on our marriage BUT THAT WON'T BE FOREVER, so you better get your [censored] in gear.

Don't expect me to assuage your conscience by being 'friends' if you perpetuate your knowing sin.

If we divorce I'll hate and resent you until I meet somebody else, which won't be long now I know all this MB stuff.

My way or the highway. "

I said almost VERBATIM the second sentence to my Squid. shocked the JAM out of her. reality bit RIGHT there.

Read 'love must be tough' by Dobson. Gimble recommended that to me. It's a keeper.


All blessings.

Diddo that. It's time to draw some lines. She has lived her double life long enough.

How is your exposure coming? I still think you need to line up the supporters in your corner. Your kids, your bishop, and extended family--including her parents. You said before in an earlier thread that they knew you and your WW were separated, but they did not know why. It's time you told them. Your WW needs to start experiencing the harsh consequences of her behavior.

Don't forget also the power of exposing to the OM's spouse. He can be your best ally.

Good luck and God bless,

CSJ

My wife had this vision of a future where her and I (and OM) would all be best friends...that we'd have some kind of two way family where the kids would love OM and spend time with them, and then come to live with me and still love me. And that her and I would always remain close friends.

I told her clearly that if she left me for another man, there was no way I could be her friend again. That her lies, deception, that the destruction of our marriage would also destroy our friendship.

I told her that if she got on that plane to be with him (up to that point, they'd never met in person and it was EA only), I'd never look the same way at her again. That instead of seeing the woman that I loved with all of my heart, I'd only see her as the woman who'd cheated on me and left the kids and I for another man. I informed her that I would NEVER welcome her and OM to be in the same room...same city as me. That if I met OM, one of us would be going to jail...and/or one of us would be in worse shape than that.

It was very, very clear to her after that conversation that she was going to lose me in ANY FASHION from her life if she chose OM. I wouldn't have anything to do with her again...even if that meant that I would have to miss out on things with the kids because they chose to have her and OM at a life event instead of me.

Interestingly enough, she wanted to keep OM as 'friends' after she decided to stay and reconcile with me. Guess what...I made it clear to her that I wouldn't accept THAT either. In an email to OM that I copied to her, I told him that I KNEW that there was no way he was going to be able to just give up his feelings for her and simply remain friends...and that there was no way I would EVER trust or accept any kind of contact or relationship between them.

Make sense to you?

Thanks all, for your input re: antics of WW. She's at it again..."I'll be out of town for the weekend." I wonder what she's going to do! Could she be planning her escape from the clutches of the evil OM? Naw!!!

Update: 1)I have an appointment to discuss A and how to expose it with pastor at church. 2)I made an appointment with Dr. Harley for Wed. morning. 3)I'm huntin'OMW down so I can shoot a letter off to her so's she can do some shootin' herself. 4)I'm on my way to the bookstore to buy the books you've recommended. 5)Lizzie's workplace exposure was a masterpiece!!! I'm gonna' plagiarize that.

Man, I needed you guys 3 years ago! I'm blessing the hour that I found the courage to make that first post.
RoT

Is you Pastor trained in infidelity? - or has direct experience?

Do you think he/she knows more about the dynamics of affairs and exposure than the folks on this forum?

Be careful.

Perhaps he/she's an expert and closet MB student. Or he/she may not understand affair dynamics or exposure whatsoever.

Don't take marriage advice from a lawyer nor legal advice from a marriage counselor. Same logic applies to pastors outside their area of expertise.

WAT

WAT is correct, your pastor may not be trained in infidelity, so be cautious about any advice you receive. I was very fortunate in that my church believed in MB principles - even sent me here! - but some are not trained in this field.

Good points WAT and Melody.

The church has specific guidelines and professional counselors for handling infidelity. I can seek help wherever and I'm liking it here!

My daughter just told me tonight that my WW's 'friend' OM has been coming to their apartment...sometimes staying to watch TV...bringing WW home from work etc.


My DD even said he's a "nice guy." I about puked. She told me tonight that she is angry at WW (Mom) and angry at me for not telling her 3 years ago because of how it has affected her life...told me she would never forgive me for this. The conversation didn't go well. She didn't even want to listen to my reasoning. She was just mad about what it has done to her life. I don't blame her. I thought I was doing the right thing by not telling anyone...being the kind,loving, patient, walked all over husband right up until I found this website. Now I know what an idiot I've been. My WW is introducing the devil to my kids and they are accepting him. I have screwed up so bad with this whole thing. I am so angry that she is bringing him into their lives. Why do my kids accept him? They know she shouldn't be seeing another man. Is it because I have been an enabler? I have been praying for wisdom on how to handle this A business for nearly three years now...I only found it here at MB 2 weeks ago. I am feeling so depressed...so angry...wondering why it took so long for me to get the right answers. I feel hopeless right now! It's like my wife has all ready exposed the A ON HER TERMS!

I have an appointment with Dr. Harley in the morning. I'm hoping I can figure out what to do. Is there a plan C?
Just kidding!
RoT