I have been reading over and over how the BS DOESN'T want to come inbtween the R of their children and the WS.

Have you ever felt that way? Do you realize what u r really saying? Worse yet, do you realize what u r doing to your children?

First let's clarify some facts:
1. Do children need an R with both parents? Yes.
2. R most children aware something is going on? Yes.
3. Do children want to be treated with dignity and respect? Yes.
4. Do children want to keep both their parents together? In most cases, yes.
5. Will most children try to keep both parents happy? In most cases, yes.
6. Do our children need guidance on how to handle the WS? Most definitely YES!

Ok, now move forward to reality:

A. The A breaks the family trust and R.
B. It even breaks the R between Ws parent and child.

NOTE: The WS is NOT a parent. Not in the true sense of the word where protection, care and love belongs. A WS is not out to protect anyone but the A, OP and themselves.

Given the above, why are we throwing our children into the lion's den of the A? Why are we aren't fortifying them to learn it is ok to stand up to the A, WS and OP. while still loving their real parent.

This is hard for a BS t/d much less a child. But do you see how confusing it is when a BS pushes their children to go with the WS and OP, then wonders why the child doesn't bolt from that visit?

WAKE UP!!!! Most of you send your children out there without any plan!

Now go get a plan which will protect your children. Equip them to feel safe. Give them communication alternatives when the WS and OP make your children feel unsafe. Little or big fears don't matter.....any fear should trigger a call for help.

Most of us teach our children NOT to speak to strangers.....the WS and OPs are STRANGE STRANGERS! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Now go protect your children. Talk with them, make a plan.

L.

Hi L,
Did you mean, "Why aren't we fortifying them to learn it is ok to stand up to the A, WS and OP. while still loving their real parent."

A touchy subject.

We ALL know what we'd like to do and what children ought to recognize. Sometimes, however, the WSs are very successful (like mine) in manipulating the children to believe that what has occurred is just one of those things that happen in life and, oh well, it just happens.

That said, my biggest mistake EVER was buying in to my WS's intended explanation to our son (in my depressed state) for why she was moving out - that "Mommy and Daddy aren't getting along and you will be better off not seeing conflict." In hindsight (duh!) I should have stood squarely atop the moral high ground and pronounced that I did not want Mommy to move out and an intact family was the best option for all - that a Mommy SHOULD NOT make believe that our friend (OM) was going to replace his Daddy."

My testimony for why BSs ought to get on anti-depressant meds ASAP!

Wat,

I have made the correction. Thanks for pointing it out.

Hindsight is usually better but I just wanted the many BS here to see how important it is to work with our children and not bury the info and support.

I have watched your interaction with your son through this ordeal. I admire how you did not hide the truth. Your son is smart and knows his dad is dependable, trustworthy and loyal. Qualities truly to admire and carry forward in his young life.

It is just aggravating when I see how other children are being thrown into the A scenario unprepared over and over again. It scares me they c/b scarred for life.

Thanks for posting. As usual u r my guiding light. A good MB supporter. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Aloha,
L.

My point was that I did not do as good a job as I should have.

Your point is timely and necessary - for current BSs facing this challenge. I hope they can learn from my mistake.

WAT
--------------
We have to learn from other's mistakes because we don't have time to make them all ourselves.

Ok WAT, I know there are things we all could have done better..... we can't go through life beating ourselves over the past and not moving forward. I know you have moved forward despite the odds thrown against you and that in itself makes u a big success in my books, so just stand still long enough 4 me to give u a small compliment, ok? Then take it graciously. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Aloha,
L.

OK, L, you are a good person.

swim humuhumunukunuku'a poa'ha !!

aloha nui
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
WAT

Hey Wat,

R U & I the only ones reading this thread!?!?!?! Hm.....

L.

I'm reading!! I agree with what you said Orchid. I did not have the courage to come right out and tell my DS that his "daddy" moved out b/c he has a girlfriend. He is only 6, but I did tell him that his daddy made some very wrong choices & Mommy cannot see him right now b/c of that.

And thankfully(I hope & belive) that my DS has never met the OW and THANKFULLY WH & OW have not moved in together.

Older kids I think need to be more in the loop. Knowing that it IS WRONG & that they need to be allowed to protect themselves from a WS just like the BS does.

Kim

My son was 6 @ d/d. I told him we were a team and that his dad chose 'other people' t/b his friends than God, his family and our friends. My son understood that.

When the OW made advances to want to meet and care for our son(to get the WS to move in with her), I told our son about it and he said.....'no way'. At 6 years old he wrote his dad a 4 sentence letter. It was the most powerful letter I ever read yet sooo simple. 2 sentences and 2 questions. The WS even through the fog could see how important that letter was and when he came home it was in his belongings.

I did let our son see his father's lair (rented room), the 1st words out of his mouth was (as he was standing in the doorway).....'mom would never let you live like this.' The look of distain upon that little face was enough to reach right through the fog. That's when I realized what a supporter I had. Our little one had immense power and to stifle it by keeping him out of the loop was a disservice to both of us. So we formed a pack. I told what I felt he could handle and he was allowed to express his feelings and frustrations. It still exists today. Now his father is learning to be as involved.

The result at this time, is our son doesn't recall as much of the horror. He has to think carefully to recall it, so I am glad it isn't having as much of an impact as it is on me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Still I want him to know the avenue of communication is open and running.

take care,
L.

I'm reading too, Orchid. I think you have made some excellent points and they dovetail nicely with that letter from Dr. Harley posted in someone's thread a couple of weeks ago. In that letter, Dr. Harley mentioned exposing to the children also. Preparing them to deal with the problem as you suggest is an extension of what Dr. Harley was talking about and I think it's vitally important.

The kids must know or you are setting yourself up for big trouble later. Not keeping children old enough to figure out what's going on in the loop so to speak can bite you in the A$$ later down the road. Also looks to them that, by your inaction you are condoning the A and everything else. Sets them up fr a life of the same kind of trash.

Orchid,

I think more people are reading this than you realize. All I can say is WOW! I think that H&O is a requirement for living your life, not just in a relationship. Kids are a heck of a lot smarther than adults give them credit for and this applies to them too.

You go girl! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

orchid,

Somehow I feel like this thread is something I need to help me with a plan for my kids.

To start out DD 19 is very enableing of the affair and the OW. She claims WH is not right and is doing wrong but yet she does not voice this to her dad and gets along with the OW just to keep WH in her life.

DS 15 is having the hardest time of all. He does not like the OW at all. For those who don't know we knew the OW as a casual friend before the A so the kids already knew her. DS does not want to spend tiime with her but is fearful of saying anything to his dad. He fears then WH will blow him off forever. he wants his dad so bad in his life he is willing to be around her. The only good thing is no over night visits are allowed and thats in our seperation papers and WH agreed to it.

DS 22 and his family live 900 miles away so not much to worry with over them. While they were here this past week they pretty much let WH know OW was not liked and was not a welcomed person in their lives. They refused to come to OW'S apt. and told WH they do not approve.

So my biggest concern is DS15. I have tried talking to him and letting him know he can tell his dad he loves him and wants to spend time with him but not with OW around. I can't get him past the fear of WH walking away from him totally to be with the OW and her daughter. Any help is appreciated if someone has nay ideas.

DD 19 well I am saying no more ot her about it. She has her own agenda in this for some reason. She plays us off each other and so I pretty much don't say anything to her about WH or OW anymore. I figure she will see the truth on her own.


So whats a BS to do when the childs fear of loosing their parent outweighs being around the OP?


Hurting

I must admit I kept 2 of the 4 kids out of the loop. They were hurt by that. They now know and are thankful for the knowledge. My best friend has girls my twins age. She told me the other day that the twins were chatting with her daughter a few weeks ago about FWH and I. They were trying to guess what was wrong, putting things out there. My BF told me this after I told her that we all talked as a family the night before. She thanked me and said the twins were upset that there was something going on and they didnt know what it was. It has bothered me since dday. I have always told my children the truth. The children and I have always had family chat night every week. Since dday it has only happened twice. That has made me so sad to know I kept the truth from them. I was wrong, but I wanted thier father to tell them, own up to it I guess. So we made the decision to do it and did. It was hard to hear them and let them have thier say. But in the end it was wonderful and I will keep that memory till the day I die.
In trying to protect them from my pain, and his choices, I did damage that I hope I can repair. My wrong choice that I have to live with. They now have to live with the pain and I hope that they will let me help them.
I suggest to all parents, Please do the right thing and tell them. Tell them on thier level for age and maturity. Let them help you and you help them.
JE

The BS reassures their child to love their parents and that in reality, their parents do love him but not this WS character. Ask your son if he can see that the WS doesn't love any of the family like his dad did. If he agrees, then tell him to work on a plan with you to help your son deal with his dad not the WS. Ask your older son to help guide the younger one as needed. Setup an e-mail addy fory our younger son to communicate with your older son and DIL.

Monitor that addy.

In other words, setup a support group for your chlid. Howz about that person who was suppose to help your daughter?

L.

Orchid-

I wanted to let you know that I am reading this thread.

I understand what I've been doing to my daughters (unknowingly). I need to do damage control here.

I know this post wasn't direct *AT* me, but that my crazy situation probably prompted you to write this much needed post.

It's really hard to look at all the facets of the *A* and how they affect everyone involved. I'll admit I'm guilty of only seeing what it was doing to *me*, thinking that my daughters weren't phased.

Thank you for pointing out the obvious to me....sometimes I can't see the forest for the trees.

God Bless,

-Caren

Caren,

Just to let you know....your's wasn't the only one I have been watching. Our children have faced the WS without much support for most of the time.

The are the innocent victims with the least amount of protection.

Believe me, I had to swallow this bitter pill also. It infuriates me to see any child dealing with the A and afraid of hurting the WS. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Just wanted to let the BS' know there is a way to help their chidlren. As much as the BS needs help and support, so do our children.

Caren, your attitude is good that you want to do what is right. It is hard at times to see the forest for the trees....... don't give up..... behind and beyond all that A clutter is a life where you make your choices. Equip your children so when they are faced with choices, they will make wise ones.

take care,
L.

This post has been very helpful but I do have some questions. I have 2 DD's 5 and 9. The 9 DD knows that WH made a "Mistake and is dealing with it." She wants to know details because she has figured out that WH said he loved OW. OW was a friend of mine and babbysitter of them. DD5 was best friends with her DD5. And I had to just cut it off. I don't really know how or what to tell them. DD9 just points her out when we go out. We tend to see her every day.

Some questions I answered and others I told my son that his father needed to answer them. I let him know I had an opinion on them but he was not asking for my opinion. Since the questions were about his father, I then left it up to him to go ask his dad. If he felt he couldn't then we would find another way. That is why he wrote a letter to his dad. In his own little 6 year old words: "I'm to embaresed to talk to my dad."

My answers were based on my son's direction. I provided the support but he provided the direction. I tried hard not to let my hurt show. Though sometimes he wanted to see my hurt to let him know it was alright to hurt and heal. Together we healed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

Vry interesting subject and one that is not very frequently addressed here or by Dr. Harley. Thank you Orchid!

I have a problem with dds, now 19, 19 and 17. Brief history: d day was oct 2004, plan B december 2004. The day he left I asked him to tell dds why and he told them he had "made a mistake with a woman" . I inmediately told dds the truth, that he was having an A with his secretary. He moved out, OW moved in and he became the typical WS. He calls them all the time but only sees them once a week for dinner, doesn't ever spend time with them. They are still angry with him, treat him as "the jerk", etc.

This last Xmas eve (also OW's birthday) MIL invited them to spend it with her. I planned Bd my MIL. Since then WS has introduced OW to the rest of his family who are all enablers.

DDs cannot understand why I don't talk to MIL, who apparently has convinced them that she "loves" me??????

They also ask me why I don't divorce him. But I always answer that he is not himself and I have hope that he will be himself again someday. My psychiatrist didn't think this was a good thing to say to them about their father. But Dds do realize that he is a stranger, not the person they knew, and not particularly a person they want to spend time with.
They refuse to have anything to do with OW.

So what do I do about MIL? Not that I care about MIL, she's not a nice person. But DDs are angry that I plan B her.