I am looking for advice from OW. How do you break the tie with your lover when you believe you are in love with him? Both parties are married. The internal struggle is unexpected and intense, and we share a child that no one knows of. I feel lost...

I am not an OW so I can't really advice as such - but your post left me with a question for you -

What about the person you are married to - do you believe you are in love with them (or is it just the OP you think you are in love with)?

You think you are in love b/c of the time you wrongly spend together and secrets you wrongly share. The secrets are part of what bind you. Why is your child "no one knows of"? Surely one of the spouses thinks it is theirs! When your relationship is reveiled, it will stink and hurt like a bad sore that needs to heal.

Break it off because it's the right thing to do.
You will suffer withdrawl but you *can* get over him.
You can save your marriage if you try. Read how here at MB.
Get professional help. Call the MB staff!!

Ever watch "Cast Away" with Tom Hanks? He gave up the fiance he pined for because *it was the right thing to do*. She had married while he was away. Different yet similar.

Okay, I'm not an OW/XOW either. I'm a betrayed spouse. I just know you are hurting 2 families in one of the worst possible ways. GET HELP.

sfjaj,

How long have you been married?
How long has the MM been married?
And how long has the affair been going on?
How does no one know about this child? Does your H think the child is his?

excellent input, I appreciate it. Both H and OM know about the child. H believes the OC is his. H and I have been married almost 14 years. OM and his W have been married 5 years. A has been going on for almost 2 years.

Additional info is that OM and I have known each other for 23 years, since we were children. We lost contact for a time, after dating as teens. The long history played a role, I think.

sfjaj:

My wife became pregnant with her OM's child. A great way to break the "tie", the affair, was to watch the two of them fight over custody---with the OM threatening to take her yet-to-be-born baby. That'll sober up a couple of drunks in fantasy land pretty quick.

In your case, you're very similar to a crack addict. You get a high from the affair---the biochemistry of affairs (new love) is very similar to the biochemistry of addiction. To break the habit, you need to want to, and you need to take precautions. The fact that you've been unsuccessful seems to indicate that you need much better precautions than you're currently using.

You will probably need to move to ensure no contact. Do not leave any forwarding info with OM. I assume that your husband knows---you need to be completely open and honest with him regarding ALL THINGS, but especially contact. Withdrawal will be a nightmare for you---you will miss the OM terribly. Of course, staying in your current situation isn't much better, and you're destroying many more lives this way.

Get clean. Get sober. The affair is nothing other than your body's love for some addictive brain chemicals.

I consider myself more the WW than the FMOW(formar married other woman). So, you "believe" that you are in love with him? Do you still see him? Does your H/BH know of the A? If not, that's the first place to start. Will there be pain? Yes, but the initial sting does begin to fade, and if your H decides that he wants to fight for your M, then you have an excellent chance to do so.

Second, and this goes along with the first and should be dealt with AT THE SAME TIME, you need to let H know of the possibility that this child isn't his. If your H believes that this child is his, then there is probably a chance, right? Get the DNA test done, and if the child is your H's you are in a MUCH better position. How old is this child? In many states, if the child is 2 or older and the H finds out that it might not be his, he is still responsible for that child. You HAVE to be honest about this NOW. If this child ISN'T your H's and you are keeping that from him, is that fair?

Third, do you WANT to stay married to your H? If so, do both of the above and if your H wants to fight for your M, have him come here and learn along with you how to rebuild that all important foundation to rebuild the rest of you M from this point on. One of the first things that needs to be done is a no contact letter to the MOM. It's usually best if both you and your H can write this letter together. It shows the MOM of your united front and "should" keep him away. There are many BW's here who have worked with their H's on NC letters and they could help you out greatly there.

Here's a test to "know" if the feelings for the MOM are "real" or not. I know that when you are "with" the MOM that it "feels right", but when you go home, how do you feel then? Guilt ridden? Disgusted with yourself for what you did? Can you even look yourself in the mirror and recognize who you see looking back at you? I tell you what, I had the hardest time looking in the mirror, and when I did, I did NOT recognize the person looking back. I also dropped about 15-20 pounds, weighing around 100-105, and for a 5' 6" woman at 31, that's NOT healthy! Now, when you are with your H, do you have feelings of guilt for being "with" him(and here I'm talking about being with HIM not guilt for what you've done TO him) Or, have you gotten to the point, because of the secrets, where you can't enjoy anything? You can't enjoy your time with your H because you are worried that he might/will find out what you've done. You worry about what will happen when he does find out. Take it from someone who's been there, it's VERY painful at first, but the sooner you tell, the sooner the healing can begin.

I know that I keep repeating that I've been there, but it's so true, and with my first A, I was lucky and didn't get P, but I didn't tell H until after D-day in July 2000. The first A happened WAY back in 94! The guilt that I held for those 6 years was AWFUL!!!! It's NOT worth it. The truth HAS to come out. Especially in your case where there is a child involved that your H doesn't know the truth about. Please, tell your H about the A and the child and take your steps from there. AND, if you don't love your H anymore, then LET HIM GO! But, if there is any hope of saving your M, you have to come clean now.

One other thing, at this time, if you are wanting to save your M, you need to NOT worry about the MOM and his M. Your focus HAS to be on YOUR M, not how his is doing. From this point on, you shouldn't even be thinking about the MOM(I know hard to do, but possible), if you didn't want to try to save your M, then I don't believe that you would have ever come here in the first place.

As for "breaking the tie", change your phone number, don't accept anything from him, stop seeing him, if you work with or near him, change jobs. And the most important, WRITE AND SEND THE NC LETTER and stick to it!!!!

We are here to help you, and sometimes it will be tough, but you CAN and WILL make it through, especially if you stick to it. It's a roller coaster ride for couples going through this, but most of the time, the M survives, and ends up being stronger in the end. Work on the first few suggestions first, those are your giant baby steps. No matter what the outcome, you will be happy that you at least gave it a chance. Keep posting, and we can help you along this journey.

Good luck and God Bless,

Your responses have prompted me to question myself. I initially thought this A was actually allowing me to continue in the M, but I didn't expect to fall so deeply in love with the OM or he with me. Your supportive responses to one who has erred so much (ME) touches me

I am supportive BECAUSE I have been in the same shoes, only a slightly different size and color. I feel that you NEED to step completely away from the MOM to know for sure what you are really feeling. You have been M'd for 14 years, have 2 wonderful children with your H, and I feel that no matter what the DNA test may say, your H would love your little boy no matter what. One major question. I read on GQ2 that you and MOM say that this little boy is MOM's son, but have you actually done the DNA test? It is imperitive that this is done. What if this little boy isn't MOM's, but your H's child?

If, and it's a big IF, you decide that you don't want to remain M'd to your H, you need to spend some time alone BEFORE you go making a new life with MOM. Yes, there is a history with MOM, but you've commited yourself to your H 14 years ago. Is it really worth throwing away all those years? Obviously there was something there to make you want to marry your H in the first place. It's not gone, just burried under a bunch of crap! I believe that you want to save your M, otherwise you wouldn't be grasping for excuses, like the fact that you've known MOM since childhood, or that you "believe" that you are so deeply in love with him. Just the fact that you are so uncertain shows me that you are still deep in the fog. You haven't even been honest with yourself, and therefore are having a hard time even contemplating being honest with your H.

Think of the vows you made with your H, did you really mean them? If so, you HAVE to give your M a chance, and if you do, I think that you will be pleasently surprised. I am here for anything I can help you with. Please, don't hessitate to ask any questions, I am open about a good majority of what we've been through. If my mistakes can help others, I'm willing to rehash them.

Keep posting, reading and learning!

God Bless

Tigger, your comments and experiences have been helping to remove some of these defenses I've set up around my feelings. Yes, at one time, I had deep feelings for my husband. I still do with him as a parent. But the OM has become such an integral part of my life that I don't even know where to begin to detangle it all.

Ok, how to break away and detangle your mess......well, first you need to tell the MOM that you HAVE to work things through WITH OUT him being around. There is NO way that you will know anything for sure with the fog hanging around you all the time. Yes, it's going to be hard, as other's have said, breaking the addiction of the A and subsequent feelings for the MOM because of the A. In this case, you need to be selfish for your M and where that is going.

Your phrases about how you feel about your H are very typical A language. Things like, "I love MOM, but I only care for my H" Think of it this way, would you really hurt someone so much that you claim to care so much about? Now, don't take that as an excuse to just give up on your M either. And, if the MOM claims to "care" for his W, yet would do something like this that would hurt her so much, what's to stop him from doing the same to you later on?

PLEASE, stop ALL contact with the MOM, come clean with your H about the WHOLE thing, not giving all the gory details, but telling him what you've done. Let your H decide what HE wants to do first. He's not been able to make any decisions about your M for the past 2 years, it's the LEAST that you can do. Both you and your H need to do the EN Questionare(emotional needs) to find out which ones you aren't meeting for him and vice versa.

Breaking the "tie" as you call it, you need to do as those who are in rehab do, and completely avoid, ignore, whatever you wish to call it, the MOM. He should NOT be in your life, UNLESS you are NOT married! And vice versa. You have NO right to be involved with this guy on 2 points, and they are basically the same, YOU ARE BOTH MARRIED!!!! I know, I may seem like I'm being tough, but that's what it's all about. You won't see it for yourself, hence the phrases such as:


To me, having been in recovery with my H for almost 6 years now, that reaks of bile! It's the same thing you hear all the time from the WS(including myself in the middle of my 2 As), and it's so NOT true! The only reason the MOM has become such and integral part of your life is because you are LIVING A LIE(you know, I typo'ed and fixed "loving" and that's true too, !)

Here's a couple questions, with some of my views added, please bare with me:

1. You said before that you and MOM were childhood friends, teenaged sweethearts. What caused the "break up" and "seperation" in the first place?

2. How long after the break up did you begin dating your H?

3. How many years between when you broke up with then teenaged sweetheart and when he "came back into your life"?

Here's my take, you met/began dating your H after the break up, started a family and then 12 years later, MOM shows back up in your life, wanting the "old days" back. You've spent the past 12 or so years loving and making a family with your H. Things seem a little bland and boom, here comes your old childhood crush/love, whatever you want to call it. WOW, how exciting that he still finds you attractive, and yet your H seems nonchallant about it. The excitement of it all and it "feels so good to be admired like that again". Am I anywhere near the truth? If this guy was all so important to you in the first place, why did you marry your H in the first place, and why did the MOM get married, let alone never attempt to contact you before the A began? Were you TRULY unhappy in your M BEFORE the MOM showed up again? If so, did you and your H try to work it through or was it the resident "elephant in the room"? You need to examine your life WITH OUT the MOM in any aspect of it to know where you went wrong before the A began. Something was missing/wrong in your life in order for you to feel that having an A is ok. You need to examine that time in your life and work it out before you can move in ANY direction.

I hope that you realize that none of this is meant to hurt you, but to open your eyes to your actions and words right now. Please continue to post as often as you can.

You are exactly right on the mark, Tigger with all of those feelings I've experienced. It had always been exciting with MOM, but we were young kids when we were involved before. LIfe took us different places. We were back in contact three years before the A began. I made the mistake today of telling MOM I thought it was best we step back from it all, and he disagreed, not wanting to disappear from mine or our daughter's life. Let me ask you, how did you begin to recover any romantic feelings for your H? and how do I erase the feelings that exist for the MOM?

Ok, now we have some dialoge going, let's keep it up! Your questions are very good ones. Let me explain a little bit more about me to help you understand a few things. My first A was more of a romantic type, where I was beginning to develope a few feelings for the xMOM. And, when the military forced the seperation, we would occasionally talk on the phone or email. BUT, the miles of seperation broke those ties, if you could call them that, and it fizzled out as the fog lifted. As for the second, and the one that resulted in our dear Abbi, well, at first, it was exciting, that some young guy(5 yrs younger than me, I was 30) thought I was attractive! He would talk that talk and having just been seperated from my H, again due to the military, being in a COMPLETELY new place, thousands of miles away from family or friends, he was giving me the attention that I was craving.

OK, fast forward to a few months later, and those feelings of excitement were turning to fear as the xMOM began to show his true colors and as I was trying to end the A, he began to turn it into blackmail(I had told him of the first A and if I broke the A off he would tell H of the first as well as the one with him!). So, breaking through the fog was very easy for me, even though I continued like an idiot. BUT, I can still help you with what you need to do to break this cycle.

Ok, you said that you told MOM that you wanted to step back, and he says no. I still haven't read anywhere if there has been a DNA test done yet. I know that you said you and H hadn't been "active" for the month before and you did right after you found out about the P, but there is STILL a possibility. BUT, I say to NOT have the DNA test done UNTIL you have talked to your H and come clean about it all. Have you checked with the family laws in your state to see what the laws are in a situation like this? I know that for us, now that it's past the 2 year point, we are NOT in any danger of if the xMOM found out that he could do anything. Your H has every right to know and the sooner the better. Right now, depending on the state laws, the MOM has NO right to say ANYTHING about this little girl. You and your H are the ones listed on the birth certificate, right?

Is your H aware of the contact between the two of you? Much of the way to break that emotional hold is to tell your H and begin to rebuild your M together. As I said before, fill out the EN questionare, you could even do so for yourself on your own. Read the FAQ's and get some of the books they recommend here. Unfortunately, there aren't very many that deal with the OC, but they DO deal with the A's and how to get over them.

I'm a little scattered today, I hope you can keep it all "together" while you read...I was wondering what your response to the MOM's response was about stepping back? Right now, many could say that you are a "fence sitter". You are enjoying the attention of the MOM, yet you know, deep down, that you do still love your H and don't want to loose that either. Another phrase is "cake eater", you have your cake and get to eat it too. For 9 years, you were with out the MOM and how was your M then? Right now, your M seems boring and tedius, BECAUSE the "old days" of excitement are back in your life. Your H is "old reliable" and the MOM is the "spark of excitement". You need to switch the two roles, but you can only do that if you STICK to your conversation of stepping back from the MOM. He needs to RESPECT that, and if he doesn't respect your wishes, he's NOT respecting you, and is that something that you look for in someone you claim to "love" so deeply? It sounds awfully selfish to me, and even though the MOM might try to pull that on you, that you are being selfish in wanting to give your M a chance, umm, NO, you are being selfless in giving your H a chance to KNOW what's been going on and to be able to make his own decisions for his life, kwim? Your FIRST and TRUE vows were to your H, and any "vows" made to the MOM were in secret, under cover, right? Not something to be proud about if you are hiding it, right?

I just thought of something that would really help, don't know why this is just coming to my mind now, but you need to get into some counseling, and if you can afford it, the phone counseling with the Harley's is PERFECT to help you know what to say and how and when to come clean with your H. If you can't work the money for the Harley's, PLEASE, find a PRO-MARRIAGE counselor in your area to help you and your H through this.

As for the romantic feelings, well, when you KNOW what your H's top 5 EN are, and he knows yours, you can begin to meet them on a full time basis and those feelings will grow for your H again. Or rather, you will begin to unbury them out from under all the crap that's on top of them. It's NOT going to be an easy thing, especially with 2 years of an ongoing A under your belt. There is TONS of stuff to read just on this website to help you out with that. Unfortunately, you can't try to meet your H's needs unless you KNOW them from HIM. You can't just guess and think that you are making it better. That COULD make things just that much worse. One thing that you CAN do right now, before your coming clean is to focus all your attention on your M and your H.

I hate to say this, and it's to try to help make things work better with getting MOM to leave you alone, but maybe you could use the "feelings" that MOM has for you and this little baby to your advantage. You could basically say, "Look, if you TRULY love me and "____" like you say you do, please give me the chance to know if I'm doing what's right, and the only way to do that is to give my M a chance. If it doesn't work, THEN we can see about "our relationship"." Or something like that. The reason I said that I hated to say it, is that you are giving false hope to the MOM. Or, you could add to that, "What about YOUR W? I can't live with myself for the rest of my life staying in an A while my H and your W are completely in the dark, let alone all the kids" It's like that saying, "if you love someone, let them go. If they love you back they will return, if not, they were never your's to begin with" Regardless, you HAVE to have MOM out of your life if you are to regain ANYTHING with your H.

I can't say this enough, but you have to tell your H everything as soon as possible. You have been forcing him to live a lie for the past 2 years, compounded with a possible OC(until you have definate proof, you never know). You need to be worried about your H and NOT the MOM and how he will react. Let the MOM deal with his OWN M, maybe force him to do so by ingoring his attempts to keep this relationship a dirty little secret. Both your H and MOM's W deserve to know what's been going on, although, you only need to be concerned with your own M and your H. Once your H has made his decision, you can then go on with life. I'm going to give the two obvious endings here, first, you H decides that he CAN'T stay M'd to you, you seperate, DON'T allow the MOM BACK into your life, EVEN IF THE OC IS PROVEN HIS, UNTIL he is also divorced AND you've seen the papers! Second, and hopefully the right one, your H decides that he wants to work things out, even if the dna proves the OC isn't your H's. If that happens, it IS possible to have visitation for the MOM and the OC by having your H be totally involved with decisions, drop offs/pick ups, etc.... or if your H doesn't want to know DNA for sure, depending on the state laws, MOM might never have anything to say about it, as in our case, and your H can raise the baby with you as your own. Heck, the MOM may show his true colors and when threatened with having to pay CS may disappear from your life again!

Ok, I hope that you've read it all and can sort it all out. I tend to be more scattered in the mornings, and was hoping to have a bit of dialoge here with you if you're hanging around. I honestly wish to help you, and hope that I can be there for you. I truly believe that my H and I have been through all this so that we CAN help others.

God Bless

Tigger, your support and advice mean a great deal, especially from one who has been in a similar situation. I KNOW the OC is MOM because she is identical in appearance to him, and I already knew I was pregnant before I had SF with my H between menstrual cycles. The other info you have offered is TREMENDOUSLY helpful. I would love to speak with you more in-depth. You seem to have so much wisdom to offer!

Not to lessen your feelings at all, but are you sure that your in love? Grass always seems greener on the other side, especially if your not allowed to walk in it...kwim? After you walk around for a little while, you notice it isn't as green.

Sfjaj, although with the information you have provided it's probably a 100% chance that the MOM is the father but just to clear the air on a myth is that looks have nothing to do with the father. I know of one case where a white couple where the wife gave birth too twins that were actually black in skin color, a dna test and a lie dectector test showed she wasn't lying and that the kids were the husbands.

Biology has nothing to do with love and trust, too. I assume that in every normal way, your DH and DD are bonded as father and daughter. Check your state laws, but if DD is over 2yo, your husband should be the *legal* father as well. It is your job to protect their interests, their relationship, not MM's. He's got his own marriage to attend.

When my DH tried to end it with OW who had told him she had "no expectations" and "didn't want anything from him" she became clingy, manipulative, and threatening. Likewise after the affair ended, she tried to emotionally blackmail him using the OC.

Everything is fun while it's a fantasy, but when reality hits, people show their true colors... and wonder what they ever saw in each other.

Good luck on your marriage,
J

As I've said, that's why I stick around here. Luckily, or unluckily as it may be, we don't always get a whole lot of WW's either P or already had the OC and many times they feel so uncomfortable coming here having been the betrayer in a fairly large group of betrayeds. I've been through it all. In fact, I was fairly "raw" in my first few weeks of posts, but have been around the ringer, including reading a certain poster telling my H to think hard about staying M'd to me and what he would be responsible for if we did D down the road, and did he want that......wasn't easy things to read, but I've survived it, and stick around to help any other WW's in my position. Not that the BW's can't help the WW's, but it's easier to listen to someone who's been where you are than on the other side of the coin. It's also scary to read some of the emotions that the BW's, especially the ones NEWEST to the situation, have towards the OW! Just know, that if you are honest here, and truly want to get the help to break the tie, and to rebuild your M, you will get all the help we can provide, whether the BW or WW who's been there.

Ok, I will ammend my comments about the DNA, especially since we haven't done one, but if your H wants one, then do one. It's the least you can do for him. Also, there are some instances where even the BW thought that by looks the OC was their H's, and DNA later proved otherwise! Heck, there are times for us, and long story short, H had a vasectomy back in 94, with no Ps or protection, AND he was on deployment, and my last period was 2 weeks BEFORE he came home....you get the picture, and people all say she looks like everyone else/all the other kiddos! We will not do DNA, Sailorman(Hubby's handle from when he used to post) says it isn't necessary, but then, I allowed him to make the choices regarding what we would do about the baby, now our little Abbi! Luckily, for us, with the crazy, psycho xmom in our situation, we never told him I was P, and he never knew, having moved after the military kicked him out for the A, assult on my H, and some medical stuff. This guy was scary during the last portion of the A and turned uglier after D-day. NOT someone we would ever want near us ever again.

I can't say this enough, but you need to tell your H. Yes, it's a hard thing to do, but the sooner the better. I can guarantee that there will be some pretty nasty things said by your H, heck, and now I think it's pretty funny, but the xmom, on D-day, was asking, "What about all the money I spent, like 'this' or 'that'?" Sailorman looked at me and pointed and said, "Well, I hope you got your money's worth!" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Yes, it hurt, but you know what, I deserved it. In your case, there has been MUCH more lies, especially with allowing your H to believe that this is his child. BUT, don't continue to keep things from yoru H, because things will just be that much worse when you do come clean. The longer you wait, the deeper the sluge is that you have to climb out of.

If you wish, you can email me at ******* It's one that I check a couple times a month, but will check more often if you need to use it. You can also post here that you've sent an email and I will check it right away. I truly want to help you through this and to hopefully help you save your M, but only you can take the actual steps to do so.

God Bless,

Tigger, I will email you at some time today so, if you have a chance to check it, please do. Thank you so much.