Okay, here goes. Please forgive me as this is very long. But, I really, really need your input, advice and suggestions. My situation is different from most on this board in that we are lesbians, but I hope that you will see my relationship as just as valid as yours and that my hurt, fear and confusion runs just as deep.

My partner and I have been together for just over five years. One thing we had in common and that I was very secure and proud of is that, at our core, we are (were) monogamous and we had trust without jealousy and insecurities.

Like all couples, we had struggles. Power struggles. Fear of intimacy (me). A pre-teen/then teenage daughter (mine). Communication issues (she tends to use sarcasm, nastiness and will shut down and I am proficient at expressing my thoughts and feelings and railroading a discussion or argument. D-Day opened my eyes—wide—to my frailties and how I impacted her – a day late and a dollar short, however.

In October of ’04, we were near the end of our rope and we found a fabulous therapist, who we saw both individually and as a couple. She really helped us and I credit her for our survival for the next year. What we tended to do was go to counseling, things would get better, small improvements, big improvements and we would get complacent and lazy. Despite our therapist told us over and over again to keep coming even when we doing great, we’d taper off till the next big thing. This merry-go-round continued from May of ’05 throughout the rest of the year.

I am conditioned to be a survivor and have great defense mechanisms built up – one of them being “I don’t need you” or anyone. In hindsight, I see how damaging the defense mechanisms were to me and to our relationship.

She occasionally has students to train for two week periods at work. This is one-on-one, 10 hours a day, for two weeks straight. In October of ’05, she had a student and was “shop talking” with me about her and how all the co-workers were wondering what her story was and whether she was a lesbian. Given the trust we had, I joined in the conversation and never felt threatened. Ever. In December of ’05, she mentioned that her former student, Julie, had called her to talk about a work situation. Again, never felt threatened – it’s just work.

The distance between us was growing and we were not making our relationship and the counseling a priority. Work, the holidays, arguments. It got to the point that I was ready to just throw it all away. Little did I know that she was feeling the same way. But, the difference between us is is that I would express my feelings (anger, frustration, etc.) and she would shut down and never ever tell me when I hurt her feelings, annoyed her, frustrated her, etc. She also never let on that we were in trouble.

January 7, 2006, we go to a movie together and she then had to go to work. I sent her a text that said “Thank you for going with me. I love you very much and I hope that we are on the way to getting back on track.” She replied “Me too, I love you too.”

January 9, 2006, she gets off work at 4:00 AM. I wake up at 4:30 and think “That’s odd – she’s usually home by now.” But, I shrugged it off thinking she may have been involved in an incident at work. When I woke up at 6:00 AM and she still wasn’t home, I thought “Now that’s really weird. That incident must have been big.” At 7:00 AM, I get a text that says “I’m too tired to drive home, going to sleep at work (yes, there is a place for employees to sleep) and then go home.” I read the text and my first reaction was “Bull___, she’s with somebody.” Then, I told myself “That’s crazy. You know she’s not a cheater. Why would you even think that?” So, I went to work, not giving it much of another thought.

She called about noon and said she was on her way home to sleep. I was a little confused and said “Well, haven’t you been sleeping all morning?” She replied “The beds are so uncomfortable, I didn’t get much sleep.” I thought, but did not say “Well, then why didn’t you go home after a short nap?” Driving home on the evening of the 9th, she called and asked what I wanted for dinner. I thought “Wow! She’s really taken my request (that she participate more in dinner plans) to heart. What a sweetheart! I was so excited to get home and see her. I ended up making the dinner, but we were there together. She was loving and affectionate. Just as we sat down to eat, I said “I’m going to go change into jimmies.” On the counter in our bathroom was some money with a receipt. Being my nosy self, I opened the receipt. 4:30 AM. Safeway – location north of her job, we live south of her job. Limes. Lemons. My heart sank and my blood rushed. My head was spinning and I kept trying to tell myself, “There will be a good explanation.”

I took the receipt downstairs, set it on the table and said “Well, this sure is perplexing!” That was D-Day. My world stopped turning. Just like Bob Pure explains, everything I had known and believed us to be died.
I regret my reaction. First, I listened. She said that she didn’t tell me where she was going because she thought I’d be mad. (Ya think??) She put her face in her hands and cried. She apologized. She said that it was Julie and that there was a long-standing attraction, but they had decided because of my WG’s (wayward girlfriend) relationship that they could not see each other anymore. I asked if she gave Julie an indication that her relationship was coming to an end/that she would be single soon. The answer was “No.” over and over again. I asked “When you think about us, what percentage of the time do you think of throwing in the towel and what percentage do you think of working on things?” She said 70% ending, 30% working. I said “Let’s move your things into the spare bedroom and I’ll call a realtor tomorrow.” A few minutes later, I picked up her cell phone, called Julie and said “You can have her now, she’s single!” I couldn’t believe it when Julie replied “Thanks, I appreciate it.”

When I went to bed, I realized the magnitude of what was happening – and I realized that I could forgive and that I didn’t want to lose her or break up our family. Sometime early in the morning, my WG came into our room, sat next to me and said “I’m sorry. I love you and I don’t want to lose you.” I was so relieved. She went to work the next morning and sent me a text that said “I’m still very confused. If it’s best that I move out, I’ll pay $x toward the mortgage.” Again, my heart sank and I was distraught.
Next comes days and days of my reasoning, us talking (with lots of continued affection and even SF) and my going on anti-depressants (which I should have done a long time ago to help me with my hyper-irritability). At some point – probably a 5-6 days into it, when I realized how shaky the ground was, I was losing it. WG was vacillating. Not knowing what she wanted. There was a part of her that wanted to stay and work things out and a part of her that wanted to “be single.” I never bought the “single” thing because I knew in my heart that it was about one person and one person only—Julie. Telling me she wanted to “date” was a cover for having to say the truth about Julie. When she said that she was going to look for her own place so she could have time and space to figure out what she was doing, I told her that “when people separate, it is to work on their relationship” – when they date other people, that is a break up. I had not eaten, was barely sleeping and could not function at work. I was so full of fear, hurt and desperation. I called my doctor and, for the first time in my life, got a prescription for Xanax. I went home that night and WG had had a therapy session that day. I walked in, emotionally frazzled and said “Lay it on me.” She said “I want to break up.” I freaked and resorted to literal BEGGING. I said “Why don’t I deserve a second chance?” She said “You do. I just don’t know if I can give it to you.” I said “What if we were married?!?!” She said “We basically are.” I said “Then why is it okay for you to just decide it’s too much work and walk away?” Blah, blah, blah. It was not a pretty scene.

She has apologized for hurting me numerous times. It was painful for us both when she found an apartment and moved on January 27th. I hated that she signed a year lease, but she said “If we get back together, this will be our place in the city – the rent is not that much.” On that note, there were many conversation that included “If we get back together,” “Yes, it’s a possibility – I haven’t closed that door,” “Yes, we still have a connection, etc.” Those things gave me hope and even before finding MB, I was doing my own little version of Plan A. The SF stopped. By checking online, I saw that her text messages were sky high (which, even though Julie said she was stepping back till WG got herself together, obviously continued). Up till about three weeks ago, we talked nearly every day and whenever we were with each other (a few dates) there was tons of mutual affection between us.

She had another therapist appointment (our therapist is pro-marriage/commitment) and one piece of her homework was to “date” and not get into another relationship. Despite that, I still knew, as much as I knew my name, that WG did not break up our family and walk away from our relationship to “date.” She “broke up” with me to justify her dating and having sex with one person – Julie. That night, we talked about us, our relationship, SF, etc. In the end, with her saying that though she doesn’t want a “relationship” with Julie, but that “she wants to know her more,” not knowing about our future or whether she wanted to try again, etc., that she is just a big fat question mark. And, here I am in LIMBO. This has been the most excruciatingly painful experience of my life!
In the beginning, I was buying stuff for her at her new place. I moved some of her stuff while she was working. I was putting ALL of my energy into her. Starting about 10 days ago, little by little, I have packed up more and more of her things. I have taken the pictures of her down. I have gotten reminders of her out of my bedroom.

On Valentine’s Day, I was really upset that she had not called or made plans with me. I am still in shock that this happened to us. She texted me and said “R U okay?” I called her and said “I don’t know what to say. What if I am okay? Then what? What if I’m not okay, then what? What do you want to hear?” She said “I just want to know how you are. I started crying and said “I’m miserable, I hate this, I can’t believe this happened to us. I can’t believe that somebody else is more important to you that I am, etc., etc.” I asked “Do you ever miss me or us?” (This was prior to my finding MB). She said I said without hesitation “Yes – a lot. And, I don’t know if that hurts or helps.” Later I said “Where’s Julie?” She said “I don’t know, I guess she’s at home.” I said “It’s Valentine’s Day, why aren’t you out together?” She said “Because I don’t have a valentine.” By the end of the conversation, she said “Do you want to come over and I’ll make dinner?” I did. We had a nice time and I didn’t (and usually don’t) do any LB.

I am doing Plan A in some ways. (I do need to read it again.) See, it’s different because, to save face and help clear her conscious, she “broke up” with me. We are not married. And we are not a married couple who is “separated” (though that is what we call it). I am not initiating phone calls or text messages. For the most part, I’ve been ignoring her calls unless she leaves a message because I don’t want to do the “How are you” small talk.

On Monday of last week, she asked me out to a movie. It was a few days before that that I started thinking things with Julie had really cooled off. We had a great time on Monday – went to the movies where there was tons of mutual hand-holding, hugging, etc., then to the city for a really nice dinner at a really nice restaurant and then back to the house and SF ended up happening.
On Saturday (this weekend) we got together for my daughter’s 16th birthday and I was really looking forward to the three of us spending the day together (and just being around her). I say with complete humility that I looked great (new necklace, bracelet and a jacket that's not new, but she's never seen.)on Saturday and she didn't say a word -- and that hurt. On the car ride there, I noticed she was not totally receptive to holding my hand, but did it anyway--till I found a way to move my hand because I don't want to force her to be affectionate if she's not feeling it. During the movie, she was very distant and did not reach for my hand even once. That made me really sad and I eventually kept my hands in my own lap to see what she would do. Nothing. While she was paying for parking, I had a chance to look at her cell phone. My hopes died. WG to Julie “Do you want to go on a date with me on Friday?” “Great!” Another one “…or, if it’s nice, we can work in your yard…” (She hasn’t worked in her own flipping yard and there IS work to do!!!) There were 20-30 messages back and forth, but I was so scared (of her coming) and filled with racing emotions, that I didn’t see all of them and can barely remember any of them. Suffice to say, it was hard core proof that even if things did slow down with Julie, they were again full speed ahead. Dinner later that night was less than enjoyable, but I tried (for my daughter and so WG wouldn’t know I saw her phone) to keep up a semi-cheerful attitude. When I dropped her off at home, for the first time in my life, I turned to kiss her cheek when she gave me a peck. I haven’t heard from her since Saturday. (No big surprise, in the last couple of weeks, she's been going between 24-72 hours between connecting with me when she is feeling distant with me and entralled with Julie.)

So, that’s where I am. Big fat LIMBO!!! I don’t know what to do. What I am doing right now is: I started back at the gym last week. I’ve lost 25 pounds since January 9th. I’ve tanned a little. I’m taking basic care of myself (but need more veggies and fruit). I joined a yoga class that starts this Saturday. I’m not initiating phone calls or texts to her. And, since Saturday, I’ve decided to add the following: When she is working near my office, I will not “drop by” to say “Hi” – even though I’m sure she appreciates it because it's a change of scenery – but it has not been requested by her. I will not (have not since Valentine's Day) ask anything more about Julie. I will not go pick up the dogs when she is working long hours (even if she asks). I will not respond to even missed calls or texts unless she specifically requests wanting to spend [quality] time with me.

What else guys? I don’t know if I should set a time limit (for myself) for her to “make up her mind.” I don’t know if I should write her off completely. How do I stop obsessing on the online cell phone bill???? All it tells me is the number of texts or calls -- I can't see the details of the calls till the billing cycle ends and I can never see the details of the text messages! I don’t know if I am doing the right things or the wrong things. I miss her like crazy. I’m being patient. I am lost, scared, lonely, confused (I still say to myself at least once a day “How could she?!?!?!”).

I look forward to ANY insight or suggestions you may have.

Thanks a lot for reading this long book. I appreciate it.

Sorry you have to be here, but it is the best place to be when you need it. have you read about the carrot and the stick of plan A? I'll try to bump it up for you if you haven't seen it. What do you know about OW (Julie) and would exposure to your friends and family help?

You have to woo your WG back. As BS, we want to think we are entitled to first "dibs" on our mate. But, that is not the case and you need to be someone WG would be attracted to. Begging and pleading and being needy doesn't do any good. Waywards have nothing to offer people and don't want to be around people that make them feel that they are doing something wrong.

Let me find the carrot and stick and you can start there. I am also thinking you might want to walk the dogs if she asks. She is going to think you are punishing her. You need every interaction with WG to make her feel good about herself. That is what the affair offers. If WG always associates you with guilt and sadness, she will justify her affair by saying that OW makes her feel happy and alive and all that crap.

Stick around

Here is a good guide for plan A.

Click for carrot and the stick

Well, one thing that strikes me, Chaka, is that you are beating yourself up for what happened. You are finding all sorts of ways of blaming yourself. You both contributed to the climate that provided the soil for the affair -- but she had the affair. You don't have to own that.

I'm a big fan of Plan B -- perhaps too big a fan, and perhaps I'm too eager to push the Plan B button. Plan B gives you relief from the affair. Although it is painful at first, it gives the BS a chance to restart a new life while waiting for the affair to play itself out.

Do you know what a 180 is? Where you mount a campaign to show that you have changed 180 degrees from the person who alienated/irritated the WS? Some people swear by that game, but I think it tends to keep the BS hooked into the affair cycle, rather than detaching from it.

I guess, from what you've written, it sounds like your WS is making a transition to Julie from you. It sounds to me like she is using you to make the transition smooth, until all her ENs are met by Julie.

One of the points of Plan B is to eliminate the transition. To help the BS land with a bump into her new life, with a last loving letter from you, offering reconciliation.

It might be called for here, but I'll let the others chime in.

Chaka,
Welcome to MB. I read your post, or most of it for sure.
Have you bought Surviving the Affair by Dr. Harley.
If not, please do so. Then take the EN questionnaire, and if possible have WG do so also.
Like others said, please do not beg, plead, LB, DJ, etc. It hinders rather than helps.
I have a big question for you and you do not have to reply if you do not want to.
You talk about being a survivor in a line or 2. Could I have more details on that? I ask this for a reason. I think I may know what you are referring to, but want to make sure.
JE

ps,
I feel that your situation is only different in one way, it is same sex relationship. Period. No other difference. Your relationship is just as valid as mine is with my FWH. So please continue to post.
JE

Hi Jean,

Thank you (and ALL of you) for replying. I really appreciate it.



All I know about Julie is her employer (City) and her name. Part of me doesn't want to know more lest I become obsessive on that angle. All of our friends and family know -- not because my WG told them, but because I did. It has hurt me deeply that only one of our mutual friends and only her sister (who is a junior high best friend of mine) have called me. Her mother talked to me for half an hour and didn't once say "How are you?" Her brother, whose own wife recently left him for another man, didn't call. They are, without a doubt, a family of avoiders. I don't want to do any exposing at work, (1) because my WG really does have a sensitive position and I don't want to be the cause of any chaos there; and (2) not that I owe Julie anything, but she is not "out" and it is not my place (nor anybody else's) to out her. Julie was worried about it, however. Regardless of those two reasons, in this situation, I don't see how outing/exposing them at work will help anything -- especially because I don't have that legal document (marriage) to fall back on.


Yeah, I have been trying really hard. And, the good thing is is that it doesn't feel like I'm fronting. I feel good about me and the changes I've made (thanks, in part to anti-depressants and feeling better about my physical self). I have been nice, accomodating, playful, loving, etc. The begging and pleading was temporary (1-2 days and a couple other short moments) and I stopped all of that around the end of January/first of February.

I have a question though. Since we don't live together, it is hard for her to see or experience a lot of who I am now. Y'know -- also, I think I got mixed signals from this site and "break-free-from-the-affair" which I started reading first, but have fallen in love with this site. BFFTA says to "not call" and to "not initiate", etc., etc. I've been doing that, but from the replies here, I wonder if that is wrong. I AM going to go home and read Plan A again and see where I fit in -- it's difficult because she is not living with me; we live 25 miles apart; and we are on opposite shifts.


Thanks for the link. Y'know, your statement above makes me question some of my thinking and I wish I would hurry up and get clear on what works and what doesn't. I swore last night and this morning that I was going to take a big step back and wait for her to initiate and not do anything that would make me look or feel like she was taking advantage of my love or loyalty. I know she is working a 14 hour shift today and I knew the dogs would be crated (two toy breeds), so rather than wait for her to call/ask, right when I read this, I called her and asked about the dogs. She seemed happy to hear from me and thanked me for checking (but she got a 2-3 hour break today so was able to tend to them).


That makes total sense. I just wish I had more opportunities. It used to be we talked every day. Now, for instance, we said good-bye on Saturday at 6:30. She has not reached out to me once since then, and we just talked when I called about the dogs. I'm reluctant to initiate anything, make a date, or whatever, because I am terrified of rejection. Being that we are "broken up," I always run the risk that she either (a) has plans with Julie; or (b) is just too caught up in thinking about her that she doesn't really want to spend time with me. Should I take the chance anyway? I read (I think it was Ark's post) to "Be Still." It resonated with me and I try to focus on that and tell myself "Focus on you, focus on you."


Thanks, Jean. I've been lurking and reading TONS -- I wish there were more hours in the day. This site has helped me immeasurably.

Hi, A.M. Yeah, I tend to do that. A lot less so than in the beginning. In the beginning, I was taking all of the blame for creating the fertile ground. I've kinda gotten past that, but in re-reading my post after reading your reply, I see that I still have work to do in not beating myself up. I do have so many regrets though. I was so *itchy, irritable and didn't see that my perspective is not her (or anybody else's) perspective -- and didn't think I needed to change that. Thank you for the reminder.


I'm not fully aware of Plan B -- have only skimmed it. It's confusing to me because in order to be able to have sex with Julie, WG "broke up" with me -- while leaving the door open for reconciliation. So, we don't live together. And, if I understand it, Plan B is the more drastic step of "make a choice." (I'll read that tonight, too.)


I've seen a little about 180s, but not enough to comment. I'll check it out and see what I think. Why do you think it keeps the BS hooked in the cycle? Anybody else -- what do you think about 180s?


Ohhhhhh......that's a scary and depressing thought--even though it may be true. But then, why the date on Monday -- which really was a great time? Why wouldn't she just tell me "There is no hope--move on with your life?"



Gonna read about Plans A & B tonight.

Thanks for all your input.

It is harder to plan A when your WS is out of the house. But, it might also have some advantages. Less chances to love bust and less chance that your WS will see you being emotional.

OW and WG work together? And OW is not 'out'? That seems incredible risky, they are really trusting you to keep your mouth shut, hmmmm. I'll leave the exposure angle to others to advise you.

How is your daughter doing? What is her relationship like with WG?

You just need to focus on letting your WG know that you don't want to be buddies, you are partners. Plan Aing without being a doormat is tricky. I would walk the dogs if nothing else, it will let OW know that you are still around. That will cause WG and OW problems. If you are doing something for WG and OW resents that, OW will nag WG and that is good for you.

Hi Just Empty,

I know it was long--sorry. No, I have not purchased "Surviving the Affair." I have looked it up and I may, but I have to watch funds for a minute. A couple weeks ago, I did buy "After the Affair" and liked it so much, I bought one for WG. It was on her shelf on Saturday, unread. Thanks. Since she didn't read it and doesn't seem too focused on putting even one foot back in at the moment, it's highly unlikely she would do the EN questionnaire. I have it printed at home and I will do it myself. Do you think that will help me at all? Maybe, after doing it, I will give or mail her a copy and just see what she says.



Yeah, luckily that was very short-lived. And, I had a therapist appointment right after. My therapist is very good and very compassionate. I was beating myself up for begging/pleading (waaaaay before I found MB) and she helped me to try to be more understanding and kind to myself. What is DJ?


My father was an alcoholic (in recovery for 25-30 years or so) and my parents divorced when I was 6. I was sexually abused from age 6-12 by my step-father. We were severely physically abused, emotionally neglected (NO affection, verbal or physical). I left home at 15 1/2 and, even though I lived with my aunt (whom I adore), I still feel like I raised myself and developed my character, morals and values on my own -- whether it's true or not, that's what it feels like.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and suggestions. It is ALL so appreciated.

Thank you. Me too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I thought so. I am so sorry hun.
I would like to ask another question. Have you read the book...I cant remember the full name but I think it is something like..The Healing Journey or something like that.
It is written by 2 women, wonderful book. I will get the name for you, I just cant seem to locate my copy. I lend it out all the time, and last person lent it to another..
I want you to know something. Everything you do, every part of you is also ruled by that. If you have read the book then you understand that.
I know where you are coming from. I am a survivor of physical, emotional, sexual abuse, and rape survivor also. Been there done than, have the t shirt.I also left home at 16 and raised myself for a while. Then met FWH the first person to say "I love you", and after 17 years he had an A. And in my road to recover from the A I have had to deal with the demons in my closet. Not pretty but necessary.
Have you worked on these issues and how they affect your relationships? Your coping mechanisms are different and always will be. You can make them better, IE less controlling, less compartmentalization, etc but you cannot stop them all together.
Does your partner know about your past?
Why is she not OUT so to speak?
Does she also have a traumatic past?
Has she ever looked into how to understand you from a survivor role?
I know I have alot of questions on this, but I feel strongly about a few things in relation to the Survivor aspect in an A. My FWH knew my past, he knows my evil mother, and one of my abusers. Even so he had no clue what those years of H3LL did to my whole being. How I acted, reacted, withdrew, controlled, curled up into a little ball, etc. He thought that they were all about me rejecting him, trying to win at all costs, etc. It has not one thing to do with that. It is part of me. After dday I had to make a choice. A choice to put aside him and the A, and work on me and my issues. I was in total crisis from every angle.I chose me and worked on it. I now can say I LOVE ME, I am worthy, I did not cause those things. In doing that, I also found out that I did not cause his A, I was not in his mind when he chose OW. I LOVE ME.
Are you there? Do you love you? I see alot of you blaming yourself, somewhat low self esteem maybe and even more.
Sorry for the rant and long post. I dont want to scare you off by no means. I just want to see where you are with the abuse and the affair. Even after therapy, counseling, EMDR, etc, something was still missing in my full healing. I have made that journey and am hoping you have too. But if not, I will be here.
JE

Wow, JE - we could be twins! I forgot about my rape at 17--your reply reminded me.

Very quickly -- WG is OUT. Julie is not. I asked WG if she was ready to go back in the closet -- she said she refuses. I don't see how she will be able to avoid it if she is with somebody who is closeted.

Anyway -- EMDR. Was surprised to see it in your reply as so many people have not heard of it. Tried it for a second. Didn't get anywhere. Willing to try again, but very scared.

I just got home and I'm hungry and I have a ton of stuff from MB to read. I will post a more thoughtful and thorough response tomorrow.

Oh, and the name of the book is "The Courage to Heal." I read it a hundred years ago, but have been thinking of picking up another copy. The partner book is "Partners in Healing." WG has it but never read it.

More tomorrow. Thanks for writing. Take care.

P.S. What was the end result of the A and your M?

I see now. If she wants to OW then she will have to go somewhat back in the closet, even further to keep thier A secret too. Definately read up on plan A. You can still do plan A while separated. Read up on the carrot and stick approach, and everything you can here.
There are a few key things that I have learned, rather slowly too
You cannot change her, you can only change you
To be still...I still am not still so to speak, I am rather impatient most of the time.
The AA prayer...Accept the things you cannot change, and change the things you can.
The A is not about you
To accept and comfort the little girl inside.
There are more but I am quite scatterbrained right now.

As for the end result of the A and our M.
That one is hard. I do not love my H. I care deeply for him. I need to learn to love him again. I do not trust him. He is the only person besided the kids that I fully trusted. When DDay happened, I lost all that trust and have not found it again either.
I made a decision about a month ago. To just let go. To open up all chanels to who I am to him. I let down my walls to him. I am raw and exposed. I feel so vulnerable and weak. I am not good with weakness, and have to fight myself not to put the walls back up. So after a year and a half from the A and 9 months from the final dday, the M is still a big question. He has said he would change, figure out why he had the A, etc. but keeps on hurting me with his actions. Actions speak volumes, words mean nothing. Little lies, half truths, ect. Browsing internet still after saying he wouldnt anymore(met OW on internet porn site). There have been little gains, and many setbacks along the way. I just hope that I have what it takes to be still. Not so sure I do anymore. So that is where we are at. I would call it recovery limbo..but not sure.
Yes that is it, courage to heal. Love it, it helped so much for my personal recovery. That and friends online at another website too.
Will await your response.
JE

I read the Carrot and Stick last night and again this morning and I have some specific questions to which you (or anybody) may have some insight and answers for me – I hope.

CARROT

Meeting WG’s emotional needs.

How do I do this best when we are not living together and have opposite schedules?

Do I call her? Just the “Hi, how are you?” stuff?
E-mail her? Short and sweet or more detailed?
Do nice things for her? Like what?
Send her cards or flowers? Mushy cards or simple?

Placing emphasis on what has worked in our relationship.

When do I do this?

During a phone call? E-mail? During a date? In a card or letter?

How do I bring it up?

I’m rather scared to talk about our relationship because we are “broken up” (even though she is a “big fat question mark”) and I fear she will avoid it to avoid “misleading” me.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

While I know myself fairly well and am somewhat aware of my frailties, is there a checklist or something like that which will jog my memory and give me ideas about myself to work on? Maybe I could poll my close friends and family. Or is that ludicrous?

This is what is different since D-Day.

I started anti-depressants to curb my irritability. They really help. I am more calm and peaceful towards the world – even though my heart aches and my insides tremble with fear and hurt. I’m trying to have a more positive, understanding outlook in most situations.

I rarely yell anymore – and the few times I have, it’s been during an argument with my 16 year-old. I haven’t raised my voice at all during any conversations with WG. In fact, since D-Day, I have been calm and respectful and have only LB’d a few times in the form of asking her if she and Julie have had sex, or stating/asking that she is not “dating,” but spending so much time with her that it’s more like building a relationship.

I fully realize now that other people have their own feelings, ways of doing things, and really do have their own perspectives – and that my need to be right about anything is wrong.

I listen more and try to talk less and continue to work on that.

I am taking better care of my appearance. Shaving my legs more often, working out, losing weight, tanning a little.

I am more appreciative of WHO WG IS and I find that (outside of the betrayal), I like her a lot more than I thought I did.

I am taking better care of the house and staying proactive and busy in taking care of our yard and landscaping.

Without knowing me personally, do any of you have any ideas on other common issues?

Offering forgiveness and understanding.

Early on, I not only forgave her, I also took responsibility and apologized for taking her love for granted and for my part in creating the fertile ground.

With regard to understanding, how do I do that? Since Valentine’s Day, I have been avoiding ALL mention of Julie or what WG might be going through herself. If she doesn’t bring it up, how would I best offer understanding?

STICK

Exposing adultery where it matters most.

Everybody in our families knows. All of our friends know. Because WG had the sense to “break up” with me shortly after D-Day to give her time, space and freedom to explore her options with Julie, she can easily conceive it not an affair at all at this point. Any thoughts?

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

I did this over and over again in the first weeks – right up till January 27th when she moved out. She has apologized repeatedly for hurting me and for lying to me.
Do I repeat this? How often? When? On the phone? On a date? Out of the blue? Or, is it a moot point now?

Not accepting blame for WG’s choice.

In the beginning, I had a lot of internal self blame, but never verbalized it to her except in the form of taking accountability for my part in creating the fertile ground.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children and financial security.

Help me here. Like what? WG is paying the majority of the mortgage and many of our joint bills (auto insurance, cell phone) and is continuing to keep us on her medical/dental benefits. She said that “Even if we do not get back together, you don’t have to worry about moving or selling the house till DD graduates" (2 years). That is not in writing.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.

What do I do here?

WG KNOWS where I stand. I have made it clear time and time again that I want her to come home (or at least recommit – remember there is a one-year lease on the apartment), that I believe in us, that I am willing to do the work and to make permanent changes where needed.

Thanks for taking the time to read these things and for all the thoughtful support and input -- all of you.

I will try to answer the best I can for you. It is definately a personal thing but somethings work and some dont.
"Meeting WG’s emotional needs.

How do I do this best when we are not living together and have opposite schedules?
Try to figure out what her needs are. If they are honesty and openness, then whenever you are with her show her you are being honest and open. If it is domestic support, walking the dogs, picking up her apt. if she might like that. If it is recreation, then find something she enjoys doing, and plan it. As she is wayward at this point, it will be difficult but not impossible. When you are together, make it about her and her needs. Do not bring up Julie. It is about her and you meeting her needs. Do this for as long as you can. Part of plan A is to show her how much you have changed, how irrestible you are. The idea is to make you look better than you were before. NO LB!! Hold them in, show her your love, and come here to vent. Do not vent to her.
"Placing emphasis on what has worked in our relationship.

When do I do this?

During a phone call? E-mail? During a date? In a card or letter?

How do I bring it up?

I’m rather scared to talk about our relationship because we are “broken up” (even though she is a “big fat question mark”) and I fear she will avoid it to avoid “misleading” me.
"
Do I call her? Just the “Hi, how are you?” stuff?
E-mail her? Short and sweet or more detailed?
Do nice things for her? Like what?
Send her cards or flowers? Mushy cards or simple?"
Whenever you communicate with her. You place the emphasis on what worked with you 2. Any time you are together, on the phone, etc. She is foggy right now, she will rewrite your relationship. You need to focus on the here and now. That is the best I can do there. Hopefully more experienced people will help here.

"Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking."
Plan on not LBing or DJing again. Even a few can be damaging and she will focus on just them. You are to show your changes to her. Let her see you for what you are now. Leave Julie out of the picture as much as possible. Focus on her. Make yourself look irresistable, a changed wonderful person.

"Offering forgiveness and understanding."
Let her know as often as necessary that you do understand that during the relationship that you may not have always been there for her and that you are sorry. Some how set it up for her to express her take on things. This is hard, listen and let her talk. Then show her how much you have changed by not disrespecting her take on it. Try to understand her perspective if at all possible. You worked different shifts, didnt spend alot of time together, you were depressed and angry at times. However that does not excuse in any way what she has done. The goal is to get your WGF back to you so that you can then work towards R.

Buying the books Surviving the Affair, The needs, Love Busters, etc really help. IF you cannot afford them at this time, check out to see if your library has them. Or check on Ebay etc. There are many threads here that will help you better with the carrot and stick. I did not do that per say. I found out after the A was over. It lasted for over 2 years, and I found out 6 months after it was over.
Keep asking and reading here if not anything else.
You will get it. It will take time and lots of reading and posting.
JE

Regarding Initiation

I had read (I don't think it was this site) that I am not supposed to be pursuing or initiating contact with WG.

Is that true?

Not true?

Should I ask her out on a date?

Will that seem like pressure to her?

It's scary! If she says "No," I will be crushed.

P.S. Any ideas for something different than a dinner and/or movie? We're in Washington. It's rainy and somewhat chilly these days.

That is sorta why I wanted you to be open to walking the dogs. It gives you an "in" to her life. I have kids, so my WH has to deal with me a little. In a no kid or property situation, you need to keep a spot in their lives (while you are plan Aing).

She is supposed to come to the house on Saturday and/or Sunday to fix a couple of fence panels. I just sent her a text (she's probably sleeping right now). "Would you like to do something together on Saturday or Sunday after fence building?"

Now, I'm nervous. What will she say? Will she respond? And, if she says "No," (or, "I won't have time" or anything like that) I'll be devastated. If she says "Yes," what can I do with her that is different and memorable, but that doesn't cost a lot of money?