I have messed up so many times and I am now in plan B and really want to to do it right. Have been in plan B since christmas and have had no contact with WH since then, unitl this week I received a settlement offer via his atty and the following snail mail today. The settlement offer, btw, was the same old thing I have already turned down.

BS,

I am asking that you allow DS and DD to spend at least a week with me during their upcoming schools break. My finances do not allow for much beyond the basic necessities, but I am willing to cover airfare to fly them here. Your refusal to allow them to visit over the holidays has made it several months since I last saw them. I cannot afford to take extended periods off from work coupled with the 1500 mile tound trip, meals and lodging to visit them at home. Any 7 day plus perid during March 4th thru the 17th is fine with me. My work is scheduled to be based from home during that time. Please advise as soon as possible so I can purchase tickets at the lowest fare.

I have unitl now not pushed the issue of visitation as agreed in our temp parenting plan. Your refuseal to allow them communication with my faimily, travel to Virgina, and blocking my email and phone call has got to end. Please be advised that I am sending a copy of this letter to my attorney.

Arrangements can be made for OW to reside elsewhere during the kids visit.

Request for additional documents for taxes follow this, ending with the statement that upon completing the return he will forward me a soft copy and be responsible for any additional taxes.

This is my draft response. It will be sent via an intermediator, but I am not sure if I should even respond since he did not contact me thru intermediator as I requested.

WH,

I am not under any obligation to communicate with you directly, so please do not presume to tell me what "must stop". As long as you are still involved with OW and are unwilling to work on our marriage, we have nothing to say to each other that cannot be passed via a third party. XXX has agreed to do this for me and as long as I feel that it is in my best interest and in the best interest of our relationship, it is how I will continue to communicate . If you choose to use someone else, or your attorney, that is up to you, but I will not respond to any direct communiction.

I will not sign any joint return that requires additional taxes be paid. I am legally entitled to file as single head of household and will qualify for the EIC tax credit if I do so.

There is nothing in our temporary parenting plan that specifies where your vistiation must take place. You willingly agreed, after the fact, not to have the kids visit you in VA as well as voluntarily moving such a distance to make visitation so costly and time consuming. I am sorry that you now regret that , but it was totally your choice and there hasn't been any change in your cicumstance that would coause me to change my mind. I am not refusing your family any contact with the kids. They both are available by cell and email and there is nothing keeping them from visiting here.

I would be willing, however, to bring the kids halfway, Roanoke, maybe. I could arrange to leave mid day on a Friday and leave Sunday evening. You could spend all day Sat and Sun with the kids by yourself. I would pay for my own separate logdings, in a separate hotel, but would expect to be reimbursed for gas. I have no desire to keep you from seeing the kids, but as I have explained feel very strongly that it is in their best interest to be sheilded from the choices you have made. Having OW "reside somewhere else " while they visit is pointless. They are already aware of your relationship and just being in the environment and around friends and family that support your relationship will only reinforce the perception that your choices are acceptable.

My response to your settlement offer is the same as the last time you made it.

Too much, too little??? really any input is welcome. Like I said I have messed up nearly everything to this point and really want to do this right.

I do not have any advice. Just HUGS for you and your family.
JE

Could you please give us more information?

Did you do a Plan A? Have your read His Needs Her Needs and established what EN's (emotional Needs) that you were not meeting of WS?

God Bless you, I can see a couple of lovebusters in your email to your WS.

It is all over a very good letter. Let WS have some consequences. How are your children doing?

Hopefully other wise souls will give you some input here.

Welcome to MarriageBuilders. Sorry you are here.

Give us some more info and hopefully these wonderful people here can help you.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

Peachblossom -

Would love to hear some of the answers to Miss M's questions. Give us some more background.....

I think the letter needs to be shortened ---

WH -

Please contact me through, XXX, who has agreed to be the intermediary. Please do not contact me directly until you have finished your A. If you wish to arrange vistitation with the children, please contact XXX and refer back to my original letter to you.

Love,

BS

Of course, I don't know your entire story......just my 2cents!

Kim

I like your response. Make sure you say what you mean and mean what you say. If you have the support to back up your statements....then more power to you.

The WS gave up his visitation rights when he moved away and you are to trust that the OW will willingly move out for that period of time?!?!? yea, right. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

That's a ploy....he knows you won't go for it and neither will the OW. She has him on a leash because she doesn't trust him either.

What a line of crock.

Do what is best for you and your family.

How is the communication with your in-laws?!?!??! Good, fair, neutral, bad?

L.

Bump^ for peachblossom answers to our questions.

We want to help!!

And we have Orchid on the case. LOL. You will be getting some awesome advice!

Love in Christ,
Miss M

Miss M, u r 2 funny!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I look weird in my sherlock smock and hat.... beside that walking stick is almost 1/2 as tall as I am. LOL!!!

Just kidding. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

L.

well you better get a shorter walking stick orchid!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I want that hat!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Love in Christ,
Miss M

Ps.
Seriously peach give us some more info.

Thank you so much for your responses.

I didn't get to do much of a plan A. He moved out immedieately on d-day (April 04) at my request. At the time, I was not sure I wanted to save the marriage. Things had been so difficutl between us. He claims his A did not start until after he left. I am not sure I believe it, but at this point it doesn't really matter. We went several months with little or no contact. I was simply too bitter and hurt td do anything close to a plan A...even if I would have known what it was.

Anyway, about this time last year I really began to be convicted about trying to save my marriage, and did a plan A as best I could long distance. He was only living about 4 hours away at the time and his work brought him close on a regular basis, if not a very often one. He was able to see the kids about once a month and we began having some real good communication via email and phone. Late last summer we took our oldest off to college and had a very good family day. He emailed me later confessing to "mixed emotions" and that he knew what he was doing was a sin. For several weeks we were having some really good communication like we have never had in our marriage before. Then he just totally shut down and quit responding to our initating any contact. He admitted that it was because he felt like it was leading to reconcilation and he "didn't want to go there". THen his Dad was diagnosed with Alzheimers so he decided to move from KY to VA to be closer to family and took OW with him. I told him when he moved that I was very uncomfortable with the kids visiting him there condsidering his living arrangements and he agreed, literally immediatley, not to bring them to VA for visitation. I emailed him and got a response within minutes. So it wasn't like I twisted his arm or anything.

I was very discouraged and there was an incident with MIL over the holidays that led me to decide it was time to plan B. His dad (with alzheimer's) called the house looking for him. He had done this on several different occassions and I had asked WH to remove our home # from speed dial. The kids usually answer the phone before I do, and it was awkward and uncomforthable for them to tell their grandfather that their Dad didn't live here anymore. The last time he called, I answered and I firmly but politely told him not to call anymore. As soon as I answered, he realized what he had done and apologized, so it wasn't like he had no clue. He isn't that far gone. I emailed MIL and asked her to remove speed dial # as, WH had failed to do it. She sent me a nasty response questioning my compassion for a man who "had unconditionally accepted me as part of the family". I lost it, considering that the "family" has apparently also "unconditinally accepted" OW as part of the family. I responded that she had a lot of nerve questioning my respect and compassion for FIL, when she has had so blatantly litte of that for me by undermining my marriage and the values I have try to instill in my kids, i.e. that adultrey is wrong. I also pointed out that WH has not exactly shown my parents much "comapssion and respect" by leaving them to take care of many of his responsibilities finacially and otherwise. Prior to this, had gotten along with IL okay, but we have never been particulary close. We have always lived too far away to have much of a relationship. WH ran home to them because it was too uncomfortable around here. I guess they are just happy to have him back "in the fold", no matter what the circumstances. Sorry, to vent like that, but it just made me SO ANGRY and I knew that I would just end up LB and DJ'ing all over the place if I so much as spoke to him. So I plan B'd.

Anyway, that 's my story. Sorry it was so long (and for all the typos!), but wanted to give as much info as possible. Does it help any?

Do you think the offer to meet him half way is breaking plan B? I would stay in a separate hotel. ANd as both my kids are teenager's kid exchanges wouldn't be a problem. He could just meet them in the lobby. I just don't want my kids to think I am "keeping" them from their Dad.

Something else that might be important...at one point we were discussing the possibility of DS15 living with him in VA. He really misses his Dad and a 15yo boy needs a father more than a mother, but I told him that there would be no way I would agree to it while he was living with OW and divorce not final. He told me that OW had "offered" to move out because she realized that it could cause problems between them in the future if she didn't. It struck me as odd...like maybe it had already caused some problems. He also asked me and I quote..."if I tell her to get out, then will you agree". I thought that was a pretty strange way to phrase it..."get out" as opposed to somethng like "what if OW moved out" or "what if she found another place". But maybe I am just reading too much into it. It is hard to tell.

Sit your chldren down and get their POV 1st. Then make a plan that is safe for them. It may not be what you want but it needs to be safe for them and what they can work with.

Do your children have any IC support? They need a place to vent also.

If the WS drags the OW around, you can bet she will try to weasel her way into their lives. She already has the conquest of the In-laws under her belt so your children c/b considered an easy mark for her. That's where you and your children need to be told and understand that their father wants them to associate with OWs. They need to consider that when they decide to see him. Even if he says no, tell them he has been fickle with his decisions and family loyalty isn't important to him right now so they best be prepared on how to handle OW contact. Remind them they don't have to subject themselves to anyone who supports the A. That includes their father, grandparents and OW.

Remind them u r all 1 family and will survive this together.

It w/b hard on you to let them go. Prepare them on how to deal with the WS vs their real dad.

JMHO,
L.

Orchid...thanks for asking about my kids. They are conflicted, but overall seem to be handling things okay under the circumstances. My oldest (19 and away at college)) has been a rock. He is old enough to understand things, realizes that we did not have the perfect marriage, that neither of us were perfect spouses, but that what WS has done was not the way to handle it. He still loves his Dad, but I feel has lost a lot of respect for him. He stays in fairly regular contact with his Dad, but says he has no desire to travel to VA to see him living with OW. He has a car and the financial resources and could easily do it on his own if he wanted. WH has asked him several times. But he says it would just be "too wierd". He also told me that I would be nuts to allow DS15 live with WS until divorce is final or even let them visit. It is harder on the younger ones, though to have such a balanced perspective. Understanding that you can still love someone and not like what they are doing is difficult at that age (13&15)On a gut level they know that their Dad has done is wrong and resent it, but feel like they have to put with it to have a relationship with him. My daughter (youngest) did tell me that she thought her Dad was unhappy and knew he had done a wrong thing.

I am just going to have to take some time and really pray over this. I don't think I can allow them to go all the way to VA and even if meeting half way is breaking plan B, it may be the best alternative. I will take whatever measures necessary to keep from any direct contact.

I think I will shorten the letter and just say something like "PLease contact intermediator if you wish to make visitation arranegements. I am willing to work out something to meet you half way somewhere for the weekend" and see if he bites.

IMHO, you shouldn't be so willing until you clear it with your children. Howz about they write their dad a letter to state their feelings?

L.

Good idea...I will have to ponder on how to approach it, though. Right now there first and foremeost priority is to see their Dad. But to be honest, I don't think they would want to spend a whole week up there even if I allowed it. They want to be able to spend time with friends on their break.

you have given me some good advice and alot to think about. Thank you so much. It feels good to be able to get these things off my chest in an environment where people get it.

You're welcome.....

Get some rest. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

take care,
L.

Okay, so I talked to my kids tonite. Apparently, he has not discussed the possibility of them coming up there with them, so I approached it as a hypothetical. I am sure they assume that I am considering it, though, they aren't dumb!!! They are pretty non commital on the whole issue. They want to see their Dad, given the choice these would be their preferences...visit Dad in VA w/o OW anyhere around (I think this is mostly due to just getting to go on a trip and go somewhere different). They don't particulary dislike OW, but it feel like her presence interferes with spending time with him. DS said his Dad acts "fake" when she is around, like he is trying too hard. 2nd choice is meeting him somewhere neutral...again mostly the idea of going away for a time...and finally having him visit here. I also spoke to my attorney and he agreed that meeting in a neutral place would probably be best. Legally, I am not required to allow them to go to VA, but agreeing to meet him elsewhere would show good faith on my part and would look suspicious to a judge if WH refuses...like he has ulterior motives beyond just spending time with the kids. One weekend a month is all he is legally entitled to anyway, anything beyond that is totally at my discretion, and it would be pointless to travel that distance for such a short time.

Anyway, the more I think about it, the more I think the best response is no response at all. I told him to only contact me via mediator (even told him he didn't have to use the same person I planned on using), and he didn't respect that. The kids spring break starts Monday and lasts two weeks (they are on balanced school schedule)so we will see how badly he wants to see them.

On a discouraging note, not sure the person I had lined up as mediator is still on board. He told me to contact him when I needed him, but does not seem real enthusiastic now. Not sure where to go on that.

Orchid...or anyone else...how aggressive should I be about asking the kids about OW and about their Dad in general? Like, "hows your Dad?" or I know virtually nothing about her...only that she is Romanian and has a interest in martial arts (that is how they met). So far I have asked anything about her, and they haven't volunteered anything. We kind of have a don't ask, don't tell policy when it comes to anythng concerning their Dad. They are all old enough to have independent relationship with him, but from what I gather he hasn't been real aggressive about keeping in touch. At least not that I can tell from cell phone bills. I am just not sure how I need to be handling that part of it. I don't think they would hesitate to tell me anything really important, but know that I don't really care to hear anything that starts with "Guess what Dad did..." or anything similar.

^ bump^

Would really appreciate some advice/thoughts on whether or not I should even respond to WH's request.

Well, I decided not to even bother to respond to WH's letter. Haven't heard anymore from him....

but did hear from ny atty today. Our case has been called for March 21. It is bascially a "status call" where we have to tell the judge what we plan to do...settle or go to trial.

I am not sure what to do. I have considered dropping my counter suit and denying incompatability, which means he would have to prove grounds. Does anybody have any experience in actually fighting it out in court. Does it do any good? Or just a waste of time?

I am just going to have to pray about this and would appreciate anyone else's prayers as well.