2B....

You posts do sound like justifications. If you don't want to do it, just say so.

OMW has a right to know. Yes, he H should tell her, but if he does not have the guts to come clean and be honest about it, why don't you step up and be a decent human being and let her know what has been happening?

Saying that HE should tell, is you just waving your responsiblity to the side. come on, you slept with her H, don't you think you did her wrong and need to make ammends???!!

Yes, many want to take the "what I don't know will not hurt me" attitude, penaltyBOX being one of them. 2B, you don't know if OMW is like penaltyBOX. And if she is, you can live knowing that you did tell the truth. You did not go and tell her a lie! If she is angry with you, then I have a serious doubt (and this is MHO) that she will hate or dislike you because you TOLD her the truth. More likely, she will hate or dislike you for the A itself. And so what if she dislikes you, you two will never be friends!


PK...I was quite shocked by your statement here. YOU DID lie to your husband, you did sleep with another woman's wife, you did deceive him. YES, you stoped it on your own, and yes you never looked back for 4 years, but that does not change the fact that you kept the AFFAIR hidden (This I call deceit) and that there were problems in your marriage that led up to the A.

That is what in MHO is what exposure is all about. You see, you knew you did wrong and you tried to do everything to fix your M. And for 4 years you say you were sucsessful but you see YOUR H was never able to do his part in fixing a M that led to an A, because he did not know the problems were sevear enough to lead to an A. He is convinced that OMW should not have told him that OMW should have kept him in the dark. YOU both are convinced the exposure was bad. BUT MB is about honesty! The Harley's stress honesty!

Honestly even after 4 years! You see, your H never knew how far you could go and it is very possible that after 5-8 years of being the best wife you could be (lets forget about the LIE of the A for the moment)...that YOU could have had an A again! NO, don't say you would never do it again, it is possible, as we see on here all the time. I am not saying you were capable of it because you are some imoral person. I am saying you are capable of it, because you were not getting something in the marriage in the past and you looked for it elsewhere, and IF at any point in the future YOU again where not getting your needs met it is perfectly possible that you could do it again. This is where exposure helps, because now YOUR H is aware of how severe the problems in the M actually were, and now will hopefully be on top of the ball as you are, making sure you two never get to that point.


BTW, your comment that Dr. Harley cannot say anything about your situation is really misplaced. I could call him now and ask, should a BS expose an A to the other BS even 4 years later? This is your case PK. Yes, there are a lot of details, etc, but this is the question it all comes down to at the end. The point of total honestly in a M, as adviced on MB, is that IT DOES NOT MATTER what the little details and circumstances are ---- YOU ARE COMPLETELY HONEST.

Daisy

To 2BNormal~As you can see, I am a junior member with very few posts.Other members here will give you much more experienced advice.

I had read this paragraph below from another thread and while sitting in church today, I knew I wanted to say something to you. (I am a former WW; I HAD an on line affair with a friend from my school days.)

Below is what I was referring to. You should think long and hard to be sure your intentions of informing the OM'S wife are Pure and Unselfish. Just something to think about.

"The only reason you could want to make amends is to try and retain your integrity and to maintain your image as an intelligent sensitive and wonderful person in the eyes of your lover."

Also, 2BNormal, if you tell OM'S wife over the phone that you and her husband had sex, several years ago (and she is NOT aware of it) be prepared that the OM will be calling YOUR home.

Perhaps you better tell your children, before making that call, that their mom 'slept'with another man because what does he have to lose by calling you at your home? (One of your children may answer or hear on another line.)

Just something to think about before dropping 'the bomb' in their family's lives.

I can tell by reading what you write that you are a nice lady and want to do what is right. I know you do not want to cause more harm than good.

The advice to talk it over with your husband and perhaps your pastor is excellent advice.

Hi Silly Girl,
Thank you for being prompted to write me with this below:


Be assured, that I do not care what this FOM thinks of me. I am repulsed by my past actions with this man. If you would have asked me this 2 years ago, this would not be my response. Time has sure changed my view of this man. If anything, I would expect that this FOM would be greatly hurt if I disclosed this information to his wife. He would feel that I betrayed him and his "secret". But, my concern is NOT his hurt or ruining his "secret", but for doing what is right in this situation.

That said, I still do need to make sure my motives are right, and I do need look at the outcome on 2 different marriages if I would contact this woman.

As you can tell by what I have been posting, there IS much to think about. And yes, I am very concerned with this OM calling our house or his wife calling our house. My husband and I have jointly agreed not to tell our daughters, so this would be a huge issue if either the OM or his wife decided to call our house now or in the future. If we would receive such a call, it would greatly alter what we have decided was best for our daughters.

Others on this thread have viewed my concerns as rationalizations for not doing the right thing. I view my concerns as "real issues" that I HAVE to consider and weigh BEFORE I make this decision to call or not to call this OM's W.

SillyGirl, have you JUST ended your online affair? How are you doing? Does your husband know?

I don't know if you ever saw this thread but, it may be helpful to you. There were several of us that had online affairs that wrote on this thread. Help! Withdrawing from Painful Online Affair

I appreciate your thoughts and if you ever need to talk, please feel free to ask me anything.

God bless!

"Yes, many want to take the "what I don't know will not hurt me" attitude, penaltyBOX being one of them".

I write to correct the misconception and gross simplification that I have taken this attitude. I feel I was deserving of knowing the whole truth of this sorry state of "affairs". I required details, which Penaltykill painfully provided. I have never been one to avoid confronting situations head on. I have had my own successful business for 20 yrs with a dozen employees and used to dealing with myriad #s of problems. The OM's wife used my services professionally for years. I do not "blame her" for my FWW's actions - I blame her for hers, which were reprehensible.

I did actually thank her for the information, but I made sure also to thank her for using me and my children as acceptable collateral losses in the acid vendetta she was waging against her very soon-to-be-exhusband. He left her for another woman, and in the course of her divorce found out rumors of her H's involvement with my W. Her purpose was revenge and a desire to make Penaltykill suffer. Her own friends held her in disregard after her actions, calling us to offer their support. Hers was NOT the altruistic "giving of truth and doing what is right" that many suggest; it was purely and simply vindictive behavior. Mission accomplished for her - a sea of tears with pain and insanity around here. A little schadenfreude for her.

My comments were made for anyone to consider the ramifications of their actions to ALL who may be affected, before deciding upon a course of action. My umbrage is related to those who are so all-knowing and so sure of themselves that they can apply a single-minded viewpoint to every situation, and a few words on the radio as the gospel truth. I have many letters after my name, but do not profess to knowing more answers than questions. It must be great to exist with such confidence and so little doubt. I'm sure some posters with multiple marriages have a much greater knowledge base than I.

At 7 months post d-day we continue to struggle on. We have been in MC with SH (our 3rd MC). I do not feel unique or unusual in the unfortunately common experience of recovering from an affair. I did say the exposure caused tremendous harm. Whether good comes of it in the long run remains to be seen. The knowledge of all this is a palpable presence of pain that invades my life regularly. At least now it is not constantly there day and night.

I often wonder if disclosure 4 yrs later was beneficial. My FWW had instituted many MB principals after ending her affair. I now have the opportunity to "fix" many of the unmet EN's and problems that I previously did not know about. But if our mostly good marriage does not survive this disclosure, was it worth it? Is the loss and diminishment of so many things a good trade for truth? The sole point being that the answer is not cut and dried in every situation. Hammering the square peg into the round hole every time may split the wood. Using the same tool for each job (even if wearing soft gloves on occasion) may not work.

ML, why discuss what little you know of our situation on the radio show? To prove yourself right, once again? The OM's ex wife called many people to "spread the news" after she called me (without knowing much fact). I doubt that you mentioned that on the show. I doubt any of the gossip chain that ensued was what disclosure should be about. I wonder what it is about our situation that has so many of you inflamed? You would do well to look to yourselves for that answer.

Penaltykill has taken responsibility for her actions. She is far sadder than she is bitter. She has had a tough existance with me the past 7 months. I'm sure there will be tough times yet ahead.

The lines between good/evil, right/wrong, truth/sleeping dogs can be blurry to those who see nuance; it is truly a luxury to be able to view things in stark black and white. It is a luxury that most rational, caring people cannot afford.

pb, I did not discuss your situation on the radio with Dr. Harley. Some other caller did. It turned out that Dr Harley knew of your situation via the thread and agreed that exposure was the right thing to do. There are no other "special" circumstances in your situation that would change that. He knew you were upset; he had read the thread. I don't see how the OMW's supposed "vindictiveness" would change anything because it's irrelevant. If your W had not climbed into bed with her H, she would have had nothing to tell. Of course she was angry, how could you expect otherwise? She was victimized just like you.

Even so, what the OMW did or didn't do matters not a whit and changes nothing. Having an affair is "reprehensible," exposing an affair is not. Let's remember who put her in that position in the first place: YOUR WIFE. The OMW did not volunteer to be a victim in your W's affair. She did not ask to be put in that position.

And if your W was gossiped about, then that is a result of her own behavior. If she didn't want to be gossiped about, she shouldn't have climbed into bed with a married man. But she was fully willing to take that risk. Sleep with a married man, ya just might run the risk of being the subject of gossip! She was willing to risk the well being of you and your family. The OMW did not do that, your W did that.

What I find very sad is that the OMW had to be the bearer of this bad news instead of the one who should have rightfully told you, your wife. Had she told you the truth, which you deserved to know, this would have been no surprise. You would have been years into recovery. But she saw fit to lie to you for year after year. That was not the choice of the OMW, but of your wife.

But, instead you choose to blame the messenger, pb, instead of the one who really caused the harm. The OMW has become a lightening rod for your pain and for your w's anger at being busted. I think someday you will see that this is a defensive measure designed to divert you from the real source of the pain.


She hadn't instituted the most important one that faciliates the very FOUNDATION of any healthy marriage: HONESTY. All the MB principles in the world cannot overcome deceit. Without honesty there can be no trust, no intimacy. Like Dr. Harley says, maritial recovery is IMPOSSIBLE without it. What you were living was a lie based on an illusion of fidelity and honesty. That is not a marriage, but an illusion.

If your marriage does not survive this, it won't be because of the bad ole OMW, but because of the affair and years of deceit.

PenaltyBox and PenaltyKill.
Just from reading your posts, I think you two are going to make it and you are going to grow old together with many grandchildren in the future to love and spoil. (The years go by quickly.)

Your marriage has made it through the FIRE and it seems you are going to be stronger for it with more understanding and empathy for others.

I see no need to rub salt into your wounds...what is done is done and now you are definitely on the road to recovery.

It is So Obvious that you love and care for another just by the way you defend each other if you feel either are getting verbally attacked.

So anyway, just know there are those of us out here that admire your commitment to heal your marriage and continue recapturing the love you have always had for one another.

By the way, even Harley says that most affairs remain SECRET so your wife not wanting you to know is not that unusual. It is just not the Harley way of total honesty.

Both of you just hang in there. You are doing GREAT.

I emailed Dr. Harley and the response to my question was just on the radio program today.

His response was that he does believe that this OM's wife needs to know. However, he feels that it is NOT my place to call her or inform her because I am NEVER to have any contact with this OM in any way. He suggested that I tell my husband that that the decision lies with my husband. If my husband feels that this OM's wife needs to know, then it would be my husband that calls this woman and not me.

He never said that I need to ask this woman for forgiveness or that it is necessary for me personally to make amends with her. He strongly felt that my husband is to make the decision to inform her or not to inform her.

This seems to be in line with what I felt all along....That I am to respect what my husband feels.

2BNoraml, good job on calling him! I was the one who suggested that you owe an amends to her, I never said that Dr Harley said that. And I still do, but if he thinks you should not be in contact with her, then I understand his reasoning. Hopefully, your H will follow through and inform her.

I didn't call Dr. Harley. I sent in an email this morning and they read my email on the radio program. Then Dr. Harley gave his reply on the air. I don't know if they will give me a written reply, because it all went so fast I didn't want to miss anything!

I will leave this up to my husband with what he feels is best. We did discuss this some over the weekend.