I guess you are not entirely familiar with my sitch. I had covered all the things I could early on. I took the call recorder out once it had served its puspose. I have a good enough service now with the CID and phone recorders to know if she is calling - wouldn't know what was said but it would be moot anyway.

OM already did give her a special phone. It is gone. Has he been able to send her another one? Who knows. I did start to look once even. I decided it was just easier to pack her bags and send her on her way - and did pack the bags...

I could install real-time GPS tracking on the car AND the golf cart but she can just as easily get out and go running and find a phone. Her preferred method of contact has been to use prepaid phone cards and use public phones. I could have her followed 24/7 or I could quit my job and do it myself.

No, you said it yourself. That is not a marriage worth having. If I do find that she is breaking NC, she will be on the next BA flight out of here straight to OM. She is extremely well aware of that as well. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that she knows the full consequences of that action.

She will not only lose her family, she will lose her mother and her father and even her twin sister. They will all consider her dead. So will I.

I can end this deal at almost any time without much provocation. I love her but am not willing to destroy my life and the lives of DD's for her. I have thrown her a life preserver and I am pulling on the rope but she has to want to get back in the boat. Simple as that.

To be honest I was mad this PM because I tried to call WW to get her to come pick me up so I did not have to walk. I convinced myself she was not at home because she was out calling OM. That was her previous MO. I am tired of this paranoia - I am tired of having to wonder where my dear wife is rather than knowing I can trust her. There are times when I think it would be far easier to just call it quits. If she continues to put forth no effort, some day that will happen.

She wants to pretend that the A never happened. She never wants to discuss anything about us, about the M, nothing. I think she believes that in a few years she will forget all her feelings for OM and may then be okay with the M. I can't read her mind but that is my best guess. The problem is that I can think of far better ways to spend my time.

I haven't hit the golf ball as badly as I did yesterday in 20 years. If it wouldn't have been a LB, I would have told WW to go on and I would have walked home. I wanted to.

Hermetic NC is totally impractical. It is easier to send her to the UK forever.

Oh, and believer, if you ever do happen to read this, yes I did say someone brought up the homework. I didn't say who but WW guessed right. If you are mad, I apologize but you took one for the team. The problem that it created was good and that is why, after nuch thought, I brought up the subject. My point with WW was simple: why is it that we are here face-to-face and yet have to communicate via someone halfway round the world on the internet? Why can't we just talk? It was a very good in that it pointed out a fundamental flaw in WW's current approach.

I also suggest that nobody ever tell me what is on WW's mind. I suggest you convince her to tell me what is on her mind. She is the only one I want to hear those things from. If she can't learn to tell me, this will be a short ride.

I liked the golf story <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

sometimes words can be funny. It took me years to realize that WH's friends "Bola" and "Pito" were actually very funny names when combined and they were always together!

***If I do find that she is breaking NC, she will be on the next BA flight out of here straight to OM.***

That is what I said to my wife. One needs to make firm boundaries.

What did you do with OM's phone? Just curious!

traicionado,

You've obviously got your armor on and an amount of anger bottled up. I can see it peeking through sometimes in your posts. I was the same way at one point. You need to keep that in, get an IC if you need to vent (or this forum).

Your wife also sounds a lot like mine, hispanic and somewhat isolated (even if by choice). She needs you to be her friend and protector. When she's down and low, care for her and ask how you can make her feel better. When she's feeling good, enjoy activities that she enjoys. Does she have hobbies. For example, I learned to knit so that I could spend more time with my wife(knitting together). Talk about things that make her eyes light up, think about it, you know what she likes (hobbies, her family, old memories).

Does she like to cook Mexican food, or do you guys go out for dinner often? Learn to make a Mexican dish and suprise her one evening. There are things we do when we date a person that eventually drop off as we grow used to each other. You need to try to pick these things back up and maintain. You'll find it's enjoyable for both of you.

Most hispanic cultures place a strong importance on family and staying together (especially the wife, but don't get me started). She needs to see you involved in the family. Do you go to the doctor with her and the kids when they have checkups? Do you bring home new games/toys for the kids once in a while? Do you actually play with the kids (with the new toys) and involve yourself? For many hispanic women (well, for all women essentially) it's very important to see the husband loving and enjoying his family. Do you all sit together and have lunch/dinner as a family? Do you read and chat with your girls when they go to bed? Do you go to bed at the same time as your wife, or are you on the PC when she's falling asleep?

All these things seem basic or even unimportant to some men, but they can be VERY important to a woman. Especially those raised in hispanic cultures.

Whenever she is sad or hurting for the OM, toughen up and visualize yourself as your family's protector. Care for her and show her you love her, even if she's grieving for the other guy. One day she'll be over him and see what real love and care is about.

Good luck.

Good points Sundog. I think most women love for their husbands to be involved with the children. One of the things that made me fall in love with mine was the things he did with my boys.

Sundog,

Yes I would say that I am pretty well down that path and improving. Most hobbies we already share but I did take up swimming laps as something else we could do together although she has now given that up, at least for the "Winter".

We always go to bed together and I spend little or no time on the PC. The last few months, all the time I spent was dedicated to writing programs for DD1's 1st grade. Most of the time (say 95%) I do spend on the PC is between 3:00 AM and 6:00 AM. If WW has a problem with that, well, she could get up and fix me breakfast <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> No. Just kidding. She has never fixed me breakfast unless you count 9:00 AM on a Thursday (weekend). Never ever on a work day. I did last evening because I was really bummed but only while kids were eating their supper.

We always sit together for family meals and I am always the last one from the table. We always go to bed together. The kids' supper is not generally a family meal. Neither WW nor I generally eat supper.

Anyway, I understand everything you have said and have been trying to adhere to that. We don't go out to dinner all the time. We do on occasion. Partly that is because her can't easily get baby-sitting and partly because I admit I am still concerned about being targeted by terrorists. That activity is down at the moment but you just never know for sure.

I go to some doctors' visits with the kids and some I don't. Depends on what it is. I am somewhat limited by how often I can get out of the office, what meetings I have etc. She takes DD's to doctor quite often. It is free here and easy service. I do have to go whenever DD2 has to get a shot. I have to put DD2 in the full body press. She otherwise cannot be given the shot. DD1 loves needles. Couldn't care less.

I know I get mad at times and I avoid WW like the plague when I do. I have a pretty good handle on what my triggers are so stay away from them. One trigger is calling the house during the day when she "should" likely be here but is not. As a result, I never call the house during the day except at lunch when she has to be here for the DD's. Yesterday I called because I had little choice besides walk or else sit and wait 1 1/2 hours.

I will say that I think my anger is pretty much limited to her breaking NC. For that, I don't much care if I get angry because I will send her packing anyway.

Oh, I did at least make an effort at IC and it went very badly. My other options for IC are all with Saudi male counselors. The Saudi teachings on dealing with a disobedient wife almost always involve flogging. That is their solution for everything. I don't really want to flog gemela so am avoiding the Saudi counselors.

That is why I thought of leeching. Seems much more humane <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

No seriously, I don't think I posted the "water can" analogy here but put that in a PM instead. Anyway, let's just say that my "IC gone terribly wrong" just about did me in. That is one thing I don't think I could survive one more time.

I don't want to be narrow minded, or bash another country. I understand that the money there is good, and the medical care - well except for the shrinks.......

But going out to dinner and worrying about being a terrorist target???????????? It's almost like having your family with you in prison. How long are you staying?

Sounds like you are doing well.

Have you tried sitting down alone with your wife and asking her what she disliked about your relationship before the affair?

Ask her about now. How does she feel about the man you are currently being at the moment. She will probably tell you that you are doing great, but she is still lacking the spark (in-love feeling). This is normal while she is in withdrawal. After about 3 months my wife was much closer and more affectionate with me.

Believe it or not, your paranoia will subside over time. I used to be obsessed with knowing if my wife was contacting the OM.

Every day she continues NC will get easier. Some days you will slip-up and feel like calling it quits, but those days will get fewer and further apart.

Let me say that I cannot imagine a safer place to raise children. This is like it was back in the small town USA 30 or 40 years ago. We never have to worry about the DD's and they have so many opportunities. I am a target - yes. I am a "valuable" target.

Going out to dinner is complicated in that we have baby sitting problems, normally don't eat at night anyway and, if we do go out, have to plan everything around the two prayer times that happen around that time. Fear does not keep us from going out. I walk the streets of Khobar alone at night when I am looking for hardware, etc. I am honestly more afraid (for DDs' safety) of living in the USA than I am here. Mexico is extremely unsafe. Where would we live? I guess we could go to Canada but - hockey???? Give me a break!

What does your wife say about living there?

The short answer to your question is "no". We have not yet begun to talk about the relationship at all. I have not pressed that either. When we were in MC, the MC was moving toward her version of the EN list. We never got there.

Oh, I tried to run over the phone with the Tahoe. Darn that Nokia was tough. I ended up taking out the SIM card and destroying it and throwing the phone in the trash. I did copy down its memory before I did though. I have used some of those numbers as part of exposure.

She wants to go back to Dubai. I am not sure I can still get a job back in Dubai. In addition, Dubai has changed. The things she wants about Dubai are "marriage avoidance" things. IMO, Dubai would allow her to go back to status quo rather than try to work on and improve the M.

Dubai has become impossible to live in. All our friends who still live there are unhappy. None of them has a happy marriage. IMO, Dubai is part of her fantasy.

We posted at the same time. What does your wife say about living there?

If you get some time, check out Myrta's old posts. She had it all - married to a doctor, nice family, home, etc. She had an affair with some guy that looked like a troll. When she was just coming out of the affair, she was IMPOSSIBLE!!! But you had to love her, she had such spunk. Now she is one of the posters that we count on.

I also think she wants to leave here because she thinks it will make all the problems go away. I have told her we can run all she wants but the real problem is within and we will never escape it - we have to face it.

Did she want to go back there before the affair?

I don't remember her ever having said so but my best guess would be yes. Keep in mind, however, that the A started very soon after we got here by my best calculations.

Saudi has been very good for me in my personal growth. It has allowed me to now focus my time and attention on the family. Low stress (work stress - that is) and zero travel. Before, in Dubai, I was traveling to Yemen, Kuwait and Iraq on a regular basis. Personally I feel safer in Saudi.

IMO, Saudi has forced WW to change her priorities and force her to dedicate herself more toward DDs than her own wants and desires. I truly believe this is the first time she has ever had to face the reality of being a "mother" full-time. Again, that is just my opinion.

BTW, I think you may be from Canada. I hope you are not mad about the "hockey" comment. We Americans really do appreciate you guys taking all our acid rain and stuff. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I live in Southern California, north of San Diego. I work at the Navy Hospital at Camp Pendleton.

To me, the place where you live would be very stressful. The whole thing about women having to cover up, etc would bother me. I have a friend at work who was raised in Saudi, though, and she came out just fine. Her dad worked for an oil company there. She is 27, and a beautiful girl, inside and out, with a great education.

I lived in Oklahoma for 12 years. Always worried about tornadoes. If I lived in California, I would always worry about "the big one". Statistically speaking I have less chance of being killed here than in any average size city in the USA. According to those same statistics, it is also safer to be in Iraq than in Detroit (published by CNN).

WW has to cover up with the abaya to go into the city. Here in the Eastern Province, she does not have to cover her face or hair. The abayas she has are like long thin black bathrobes. The problem she has with covering up is that people don't get to see her clothes. She likes looking nice and wants people to see her and notice her. With the abaya, she feels they don't. I would say that she tries to dress about 10 years younger than her actual age. That may by psychological or it may just be cultural. In Mexico this last Christmas, I noticed women dressed for show. On the other hand, her twin sister dressed much more conservatively than WW does and twin lives in Mexico. Sister has also noticed WW's form of dress and is not entirely in agreement with it.

Sister is very much against the A and WW's way of behaving. Unfortunately her thought process is such that she thinks WW will just snap back to reality and that we should just forget about the whole A process. I have asked her to come here and read and maybe post. I doubt she ever has.