Threadjack ...............

Myrta - I'm so happy to see you posting here. You will never realize how helpful you are being. I remember back when we were all throwing our hands up over you. You are a good woman.

Stan-ley,

gemela is conviced she got the STD from a boyfriend about 12 years ago and that OM is clean. She is convinced the OM did not pass the STD. Why it just suddenly showed up on me she can't explain. My latest outbreak has lasted two months and shows no signs of going away. I don't know what to do. I thought HPV came and went but mine won't go. it is a constant reminder. Fortunately this outbreak isn't all that painful like the last one was - just a little uncomfortable if I move the wrong way sometimes.

Myrta,

gemela has an older half brother and half sister. They almost never talk. gemela and SIL are the only children from this marriage of MIL and FIL and gemela is the younger by about 5 minutes.

Dday was in August and I got the news by LD telephone call. It was another 3 weeks before gemela came home. She and OM were in constant contact by internet during that time thru a secret account she took out. OM left Saudi at end of September (I think) or early October. gemela went through a series of phone call spates with OM in late October, early December and mid January. I discovered all of them. Twice caught her red handed on the phone.

We do have the Thai food counselor we can go back to. Do you think gemela is ready yet or do I wait a bit longer. I have to admit that Thai food sounds more pleasant than flogging. I have just been waiting for an indication that it was time to go back. As long as the phone calls continued, I saw no point.

Believer.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Wow, thank you for the sweet compliment. Coming from you it means so much...You are practically a saint, with the way you have handle things in your life. I am sure wonderful things will be happening in your life, because you deserve them. Thank you again. And I do hope I am helping someone, even if is a little bit

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Yes Myrta, I am glad you are posting here. You have helped me more than you will ever know. You pulled me out of the dumps last week. Thanks. It is good to get input from a FWW to know how the other half lives.

Oh, I wanted to say: I don't think gemela confided to anybody about the A while it was going on. I think that SIL knew gemela was attracted to OM but that was before the A. Once the A started, I can't see anyone that gemela talked to about it and I have a lot of evidence to the contrary. I don't know what that means but somebody brought it up a few posts ago.

Well, if she has really stopped all contact with OM, she could do MC or IC. But if there is still contact, is a futile attempt, because she will just go thru the motions. Pretending to listen to MC, but really not doing what she has to. It seems like she has though. If OM is far away, and out of the picture thats great. In my case, OM lives in another country, so it was easier because of that. I am sure that if he live close or in the states, he will still be pestering me. He has flown to where I live in the hopes of resumming the Affair. Last time, though, I think he got the message! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />



P.S. If I did helped you last week, I am glad. I think its
a good thing for BS to hear what a FWW. It gives
both the BS and WS a better understanding of each
other.

But yes, I would suggest to her to go back to MC and see how she reacts. If she truly wants the marriage to work, she should go, even if she feels she is not up to it. I actually looked forward to the visits with our MC. We have a great one!!

Okay I will make the MC appointment. I may take a week or so to get in. I guess I will just have to learn to like peanut sauce. Yet one more sacrifice to have to make to save the marriage - will it never end?

One question: should I tell SIL very strongly to butt out? At first I enlisted her help when I exposed to her. She has helped convinced WW not to run off with OM. I don't think WW would go to OM now if I put a ticket in her hand and took her to the airport. Personally I think those days are over. OM would find it difficult to get a visa to come back here. If he got on camp and got caught, he could do Saudi prison time. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Besides - that is not part of his fantasy. His fantasy is that WW runs off to be with him.

To answer your earlier question: I have to be here 3 1/2 more years to make it worth the effort. If I am here a full ten years, there are HUGE benefits. If I have to leave to save the M, I can do that but what I have told WW is that now, after the A, how do I know she won't decide I am not what she wants if we do leave? Why hurt our family life while she is a big question mark? That is a tough one to justify. It is not like we have to get away from the OM - he is completely gone and can never return. We are safer from contact here than anywhere else in the world.

What!! peanut sauce is delicious!! You will love it!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
Well, about your SIL....knowing how fiery us latina girls can be...if you do that, your wife is going to get so angry. Let Gemela be the one to tell her sister to butt off. She should do it. If my sisters knew about my affair, they would have a field day....telling me this and that! Talking down to me, like I am an infant. But if you are unconfortable with your SIL putting her "two cents" all the time, you should tell your wife to talk to her. Tell her that it bothers you a lot.

Is a good thing OM is out of the picture. And you know Traicionado...the OM fantasy is not to run away with your wife,,,,,but to destroy your marriage!! He would not know what to do with a woman that already has kids and on top of that is older than him.

Whether you stay in Saudi or go...Gemela will stay with you. I am sure she knows whats best for her. When you are out of the web of the affair, you see the world so clearly. YOu see the magnitude of your doing. I am sure that by now, Gemela knows she has nothing to win, and EVERYthing to lose, if she were to go off with OM.

Myrta

Traicionado:

It is clear that OM was never an option. You must remember one thing; these OMs get real foggy and start to build castles in the air. Myrta's OM wanted to invest in a restaurant so Myrta could be the manager and chef. All of this because he thought Myrta was a great cook. Of course; OM had zero experience in the restaurant business and no capital. He also started to have hallucinations. At times he pretended my children were his kids.

Regarding the STD: Gemela will say anything to save the good memory of OM even if he was such a low-life as to have unprotected SF. For him it was all Disneyland stuff. IMHO, you are in excellent shape where you are. Time is your ally. Do not LB Gemela and let her go thru withdrawal.

One more thing: In reality you have nothing to lose. Despite her affair you hold all the cards. There is no future with OM. From where I sit a swimming instructor is not going to give Gemela enough to buy one pair of shoes a year. In addition, you have built-in physical NC due to distance. I will admit that is a plus. If OM had been a local guy I would probably be in jail right now because I would have killed him. In fact, I pray for his death every day. As I said; you have nothing to lose--------She already broke the marriage. Look at it this way-------Try to rebuild the marriage with all your heart. If you fail then you can walk away knowing that you did not lose the marriage by not trying.

Do not think OM was a hot shot either. Within the affair most OWs are not looking for the better qualities in a man. They are simply looking for someone that meets a specific EN--------most likely admiration. As I suspect-------I am almost certain Gemela is an admiration junkie. If you treat her well and pay attention she will flourish. Is not so much that you have to buy flowers to her everyday. SIMPLY PAY ATTENTION TO HER.

I just got appt for MC on Tuesday thanks to Myrta.

One thing I am not happy about here in Saudi is that I keep getting promoted. That was not the deal when I came here. I was told I could just be an engineer and was looking forward to that. Now I spend most of my time feeding the SAP machine. If anyone has worked with SAP, you will know what I mean. It may force me to leave. Don't know yet. Other than that, life here is truly wonderful for families with small children. I can't imagine a better place. The DDs are what keep me here.

I will not say anything to SIL although I want to. WW isn't going to say anything either. I know her and she doesn't have what it takes. I never thought about SIL being an OW until you mentioned it but I can see how maybe SIL does have some resentment for WW buried in there somewhere. We just never are allowed to talk about the SIL situation. We always pretend they are married. Everyone - even MIL!

I got this snippet from a web site the OM wrote to while he was here. The date of January was about the time he first met WW. It always made me wonder if he was not talking about her. Mexicans are not too common here and everyone always thinks my wife is Philippina. I don't know. Maybe I should ask OM?

Written by OM on Jan 2, 2005 to a "friends" website.

"I'm working in Saudi Arabia for an oil company making lots of money. I am marrying a philipino as they are cheap to buy, she's a looker. Back in june to settle down in England, haven't changed have a good new year."

The guy is a creep. I hope you will stop thinking about him.

Hey believer,

In what context do I stop thinking about him? I completely gave up on the PI. Honestly I don't think about him much at all (except when I go to the bathroom for #1 - then I am reminded - even if I were blind, it is written in braille). I don't blame him for the A so don't really think about him that much. I know exactly who he was and I know exactly what he wanted from WW and I have strong evidence that she was no where near the first. I think she even knows some of them but I have to be very careful with that because of where we live.

That little tidbit from OM is from the first (and last) PI report. I just thought some of you might like to know what kind of a guy that WW fell for. I can't share that with WW - she would never believe it. OM is perfect and infallible in her eyes. I just wish I were half the man she believes he is.

I no longer obsess over the OM although I admit I did a while back. I don't think even WW is without her doubts any more but she can't tell me that. I think she prefers to continue to believe in the fantasy even though more and more of her realizes it was probably not real. As Myrta said, probably easier to feel good about herself.

Traicionado,

If I were in your situation, saving my marriage would be my FIRST PRIORITY!, not dds birthday, not SIL's opinions or situation, not my job. At this point all those things are not important, because without a marriage none of them really matter.

I can see that YOU are doing a great plan A, but I don't see Gemela doing anything other than PRETENDING that nothing happened, and she seems to have actually CONVINCED herself that nothing has. She is happy and busy as though everything were fine but she is NOT addressing her marriage problems. At least that's the impression I get from you because she hasn't written here and she's not going to IC, talking to anyone else about it as far as you know, so WHAT IS SHE THINKING?

I would be worried. I would expect my WS to either be in withdrawal (not happy) or repenting (OM is no longer wonderful). Neither seems to be happening to Gemela.

I'm glad that you have MC on tuesday. Hopefully you will be able to get a glimpse of what Gemela is thinking at this stage.

Just my opinion.

My perception is that what you are saying is pretty accurate. Can you recommend anything else I should be doing? It does concern me that I don't see anything like withdrawal. This is what makes me think she is still in contact at times but on the other hand half of me thinks she isn't. She is taking cipralex.

You say I should be concerned. What is it you think I need to be concerned about?

I don't have enough experience to know what you should do ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

At this point I would wait for the MC appointment. Hopefully you'll have more information.

In the meantime maybe you could ask her about her posting? Not force her to post, but rather whether she's not interested in posting, why she isn't, etc and that may lead to some convo on what she's feeling or thinking.

Are you sure she's not in contact with OM?

I will try to get her to post tonight (next 5 hours or so). I think I can get her to but we will see.

I cannot be absolutely sure she is not in contact with OM short of having her followed. If it gets to that point, I just want her gone. I am willing to do just about anything for the M except drive myself crazy with paranoia. She just isn't worth it. I love her but I am also willing to accept that it just won't work out if it comes to that.

If she is in contact, she will deny it in MC like she has every time before. There is something else to consider too. I have no idea what she does during the day. For all I know she could be home crying her eyes out and then put her game face on when I get home. I will get her to post on MB as long as you promise not to tell me what she says.

Hay Traicionado! I don't want you to force her to post, or even ask her to post. I wonder what's going on in her mind, and who she's talking to, because she doesn't seem to be telling YOU much, she's not going to IC, nor is she posting. That's my point.

asking her why she hasn't read or posted might help to get the convo going about where she is emotionally. She needs to talk to YOU, not necessarily to us.
Maybe you could suggest it is a bit rude to ignore the messages she may have to get her at least back to the subject of your marriage and the A, if she's trying to ignore it all.

I haven't and won't tell you anything about what she says in her thread. I do understand how important it is at this stage for her to find safety somewhere or with someone. I was just trying to find a thread by a WS where he described how he felt like a "wounded animal" for you as an example of how a WS could feel once they realize what the A has meant, but I couldn't find it. Will keep looking.

Have to go out with the dog for a while, but I'll be back.

What I have been successful with is just tell her that people are posting me because they are worried about her (it is the truth) and I just ask her to post so that everyone knows she is okay. That is as far as I "push" her.

I don't think MB is the solution to our M but it does give her a healthy outlet to discuss her feelings.

I have been focused on Plan A, AD, IC, etc. and have not pushed discussions. Hopefully MC will be the trigger to get that dialogue back. You are right - for the moment we (i.e. she) are just pretending that nothing ever happened and I am allowing it for the time being because I have been waiting on something. Problem is I don't know what it is I am looking for.

gemela is being extremely close, touchy-feely, affectionate, huggy, and she consistently is doing that. She is not turning that on and off. I also initiate some of that but she definitely does more. I say that because many times I hold back just a bit to see whether she makes the effort or not and she almost always does. We have avoided SF now for maybe two weeks. Mainly because of the regla which I see is now probably about over. BTW, I am not going to express an opinion one way or the other but the regla abstinence has always been her insistence - always - but it seems reasonable enough. Just don't hammer me with an LB violation for it okay?

If she posts on MB tonight, I know she will be in a bad mood afterward. I know how to deal with that so no problem.

I think you're doing better than great! I think I'll keep this thread in my archives.

MB may not be the solution, but I don't see anything else "helping her" including herself. She seems to be behaaving as though there were no problem! and that's the main problem from my point of view. But that's just what I interpret from your posts.

Of course I told you to be patient, and you're right there: what are you being patient FOR? that's the point. I thought she was going into withdrawal or coming out of the fog. But neither seems to be happening.

We'll wait for the next few days and see what happens.

Traicionado....just a quick note, since I have to go and pick up my husband at his car's dealer.

About your wife not showing any signs of withdrawal....Traicionado...I did not show to Stanley at all my withdrawal. If I had to cry, or be depressed,.or whatever,,,,I did it in private. I did not want to hurt him further by showing signs that I was missing OM. I thought it would be horrible to show him that too. Its an excellent thing that Gemela is being affectionate and warm to you. While in withdrawal most WWs are not receptive to their husbands. About the abstinence thing during the "regla" I am that way too. I dont like to do it while I have it. Another trait of "latinas"? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

You are doing really well. And I am posting to you, because I like you and I want you to understand a bit more Gemela. Not because I want her to post....although it would be nice too.

Myrta