No I did not take your offer seriously. I did not take it as facetious but that is only because I didn't know how to spell it - otherwise I would have.

Remind DS1 how proud you are of him. FIL? Would I like to be a fly on that wall.

Myrta,

I had a nasty chat with SIL the other night. Not one of my prouder moments. Take it for what it is worth. The major problem I have with SIL is how we define the word "family".

You can view it at:

Recent chat with SIL

I just read the conversation you had with your SIL. I dont think she has bad intentions when she talks to your wife. But maybe your wife could read the wrong message in the conversations. She will hear "what she wants to hear". And I hope your wife is smart enough to see that her sister is living with a man that was unfaithfull to his wife, not a good situation to be in. Thats not a good relationship SIL is in.

Your wife should not go with out YOU to Mexico. If she goes there it should be all of you as a family. Its too soon for her to go without you anywhere!!

Myrta

Thanks for leting me know you read it. I just deleted it. I guess what I need is for SIL to stop insisting the WW leave and go there to be with her "family".

traicionado,

Interesting SIL chat. My WW also considers her family to be her parents and siblings. Wonder why?

Todd[---thats the way spanish cultures are. All my sisters(I have 3), have always critized that I always put my husband and children before my childbirth family. They cannot understand that. My husband and I always put OUR married family before any body else(parents,sibblings,etc.) Traicionado's SIL seems to be a bit pushy with the issue of Gemela going there for the summer, or the prospect of "if their marriage does not make it" that Gemela should go back to Mexico.

Myrta, that's interesting. I had always suspected that but had no validation. I fully understand that family is ultra important in the Latin culture. It is one of the things about the culture that I truly love. Well, that and the food!! I just cannot understand why WW cannot ascribe the same importance to our immediate family. BTW, my WW is from Puerto Rico.

Thanks for your input.

Todd....funny!! My husband and I were raised in Puerto Rico, but our parents are from Spain. The families have been there forever. Delicious food, is in it??? We were just there a couple of weeks ago, and we ate such good food!


But yes, birth family is extremely important for spanish families of ev ery background, I think. Thats why also, we dont put our parents in nursing home, we care for them till they die!!

t/j continues...yes the food!! My favorite is the most simple: rice and beans. I love the style where the rice and beans are cooked together in a sofrito. Whenever we go to Puerto Rico, my wife has so many relatives there that we eat like the royal family! I will also say that Latins are the most hospitable and accommodating people in the world.

Okay, now I am hungry...

Whenever WW talks about her family, it is definitely not the kids and me. Never has been. I am sort of glad to know that is "normal" and yet sad at the same time.

1) SIL has always tried to run WW's life. They are twins but SIL is the dominant one. My WW has told me this. SIL has a real temper too. WW is a lot more leveled out.

2) I was wondering about this but SIL insists on putting the DDs first. MIL did this even while FIL never lived at home. He first cheated on MIL on their wedding night and never stopped. In spite of the mistreatment, MIL suffered that for 19 years until DDs turned 18 and received a D for their birthday. Now SIL is in a 10 year "affair". Her DD was an accident. I know that becuase they almost decided to abort it because of the BC medicine she was taking. It was a high risk birth. She got pregnant again last year and "BIL" stopped talking to her for a month. What I am wondering is that deep down somewhere inside she must realize that she is in a precarious situation and that "BIL" can walk away at any time so she must be habitually concerned about her DD and how she is going to care for her. So I wonder if SIL's views on marriage are biased by the fact that she is not married? Does that make sense? Or has she been living like this for so long that she has convinced herself that it will last forever? FIL does not know she is not married. MIL does know, lives with them and has burned more wax than Madame Tussauds contains. MIL is DEVOUT and I used to tease her about her iglesia portatil. She lived with us for 2 years and that church grew and grew and she had candles going day and night. Still does. I know SIL's situation hurts MIL very much.

It bothers me that SIL is making all these separation contingency plans. It bothers me that SIL is interfering at all. It bothers me that SIL says that WW should leave here and spend the summer with her. As I said before, if WW does go, the DDs will stay here until time for vacation and I will take them and join up with WW. My DDs would be miserable in Tabasco for the summer. SIL will not allow them to use the AC because the electric bill might be too high. My DD1 is a mosquito magnet and lives in fear of them.

SIL has the belief that WW being in Mexico surrounded by her "family" is going to work some kind of magic and get WW "thinking right" again. I think SIL is trying to convince WW to Plan B. I just don't see the benefit. Plan A is going pretty good AFAIK. WW has improved quite a lot. AD seems to be helping. She is getting out of the house, meeting new people. I think she is honoring NC. Why separate for the summer? It just seems counterproductive and the wrong direction to take.

No, definately not beneficial to separate at this point. She is agreeing to NC and you are both working on the marriage, correct?

Going through withdrawal is like getting off of alcohol or cigarettes, or any drug. It brings her down, makes her have some moments of temporary clarity (happiness) and others of extreme depression. The AD will help level her out. AD's shouldn't make her happy, just more normal.

After a couple of months of NC and plan A on your part you'll see her pulling in closer to you again. Keep plan A up. Eventually she'll start to seem like the wife of old. Don't fall back into whatever old habits/behaviours she didn't like. And don't give into the temptation to let the anger you have been suppressing out upon her. Whether you know it or not, you do have much anger. We all do.

Later on down the road you can address that.

I am trying to do all the things you mentioned. Although I am not spending much time on the PC (no more programming - sigh...), any time at all gets noticed so I avoid most all of that. WW does not like me spending too much time on MB.

Yesterday I cut steel bars and reinforced her garden border fence (stainless of course). I cut a hole in the side of the house and replumbed the sweet water (we have two kinds) so now she has a tap outside for the garden rather than from inside the garage. I went to the grocery store (twice). I ordered pizza so she didn't have to cook. DDs went to a Bday party for the neighbors. I helped WW pick out the color schemes for the Bday goodie boxes she is making. She doesn't need my help - she is brilliantly creative but she wants reinforcement sometimes.

Since we have Bday for DDs coming this next weekend. I printed up invitations on photopaper and was going to make individualized invitations on the back. WW finally gave me the name list yesterday. She sat with me while we finalized the design. She sat with me while I printed the envelopes. She then went off to cut out the invitations but was having trouble. She had on a sleeveless shirt and was cold so I took off my shirt and put it on her. I got out the paper cutter and cut out the invitations while she pasted. She was really tired but we finished it together. I then got DDs into bed (they were really wired [too much sugar intake from the party] and WW can't usually control them when they are like that without screaming but I can without screaming) while she got her PJ's on. She tucked them in, got in bed and crashed.

I don't know if WW is agreeing to NC or just doesn't have the ready means to call. She does seem okay with it. She says she is trying to stay busy so she doesn't have to think about it. She even makes little jokes about the A from time to time. Nothing big - just little doble sentido comments. She laughs and I smile pretending that it's funny. It's not BTW but I pretend it is.

She has yet to go back to IC. I think she just wants to forget about it, put it in the past. I am not sure that will work for me.

While she is in withdrawal, seeing a counselor will only help her express her feeling to someone other than you.

She wont be ready for family/marital counseling until she get through this. When that happens, she'll be more open to facing the problem.

Be patient.

Good luck.

Traicionado.....Does your wife want to go to Mexico by herself? Or she is just letting her sister manipulate her? Cause sometimes, my sisters try to manipulate me into doing things I dont want. I used to go for it when I was younger, but now I know better. Now, I dont let ANYONE make me do something I dont want to. Gemela surely knows that its not a good idea to go off to Mexico on her own. Too much time to think the wrong things. She needs to stay put, in Saudi, and work in your marriage that is in trouble right now. Is she still too busy to post? She should come and post and see what she says to us. Why dont you suggest to her to come and post?

Your MIL sounds like those old fashioned women from Mexico that you see portray in "novelas". They have little santuarios set up in corners in the house and pray to the Virgen of Guadalupe. Most mexicans are devout catholics, they have a lot of faith. Really pretty and inspiring.

I think her sister is just being sisterly. I'm extremely close to my sister (not twins though) and have always encouraged her to come stay with me when she had down periods. We sisters always think we can fix each other.

I think the anti-D's are going to kick on and help things out. Hang in there, you are doing fine.

Whenever WW talks about her family, it is definitely not the kids and me. Never has been. I am sort of glad to know that is "normal" and yet sad at the same time.


We cannot generalize, but quite often that is the case. In my family it was the other way around. Family is composed of parents and children. It was also implied that spouse and kids are more important than a nagging MIL or SIL.

However, in my wife’s family it is different. The family is those that are blood related. For example any of my wife’s sisters would not think much of the H in relationship to their sisters. I must add that this is a matriarchal philosophy where men are not deemed too valuable.

1) SIL has always tried to run WW's life. They are twins but SIL is the dominant one. My WW has told me this. SIL has a real temper too. WW is a lot more leveled out.

Like most OWs your SIL despises marriage. She despises marriage because she knows she will never be asked to get married. It is a very old Freudian mechanism of defense. She would also love Gemela to keep her company. Misery loves company-------do not forget that. It is also likely that Gemela confided in your SIL while having the affair. I am almost certain your SIL is sympathetic to the infidelity.

So I wonder if SIL's views on marriage are biased by the fact that she is not married? Does that make sense? Or has she been living like this for so long that she has convinced herself that it will last forever?

Your SIL will get dumped when the next good one comes along. That is the destiny of most OWs.


It bothers me that SIL is making all these separation contingency plans. It bothers me that SIL is interfering at all. It bothers me that SIL says that WW should leave here and spend the summer with her.

Typical matriarchal thinking where men are devalued. If any of my SILs did this sort of thing to me I would let them know in a stern manner that my marriage is none of their business. None of my three SILs interfere, but that is because Myrta has made it clear that her H and kids are her main family.


SIL has the belief that WW being in Mexico surrounded by her "family" is going to work some kind of magic and get WW "thinking right" again.

Don’t do this!

IMO SIL is pulling the strings and WW is dancing. I don't think WW would consider going to Mexico without being pushed. A thought that has come out of WW's mouth from time-to-time also is that she has some fear that, if she does go off to Mexico alone, then I might decide I can live without her.

I also don't know that WW is really agreeing with SIL. WW has known all her life that it is pointless to argue with SIL. She just says "yes yes yes okay yes yes" all the while thinking "I wish she would just shut up already". I don't know if that is happening this time but I have seen it many times before.

I would say that she has indeed been too busy to post the past four days. I think I might be able to get her back tonight. I will get her back. This is her little negotiation for avoiding IC. She thinks if I know she is posting here, I won't insist on IC (she is right too). Not that I think this is better - it is just that our expat counselors here are pathetic. Even so, I wish she would do both. I have not yet gone to a Saudi counselor but I am sure their advice will simply be to have WW flogged because that is how they deal with "disciplinary" problems in their culture. Not really the best advice.

Oh, the psychiatrist I had such a problem with in my failed IC attempt? I heard yesterday she is in the middle of getting divorced. Imagine that.

Well Stan-ley,

WW has no money to buy a plane ticket so I will keep her grounded. We all go together. Thanks.

traicionado:

I just learned OM passed STDs to your marriage. How does Gemela feel about this? She has put your life at risk. Does she has awareness of what she has done? I ask because many WWs that are addicted have no concept of reality and will rationalize everything.

What are her views of OM now? Any different than right after d-day? If she is progressing normally at one point she should realize the true nature of OM.

Taricionado....Is Gemela the youngest of the sibblings? In my case I am the youngest of five. My sisters still see me as a little girl, that they can make jump with a snap of their fingers. But like I said, I am learning to say no, when I want to. I am learning to stand on my own, whether they like it or not. MOst of the time, they dont!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> But, what can I do. This is my life, not theirs.

How long again since DD? I was kind of hesitant at the beginning to go to MC and IC. But I realize, its a Must, if you want the marriage to function normal again. YOu need the input of a professional that works in re-building marriages. BUt those Saudi doctors, dont sound too encouraging. I would be scare to go if I were Gemela. How long more do you have to stay there? Whats your job?