Myrta,

Let me see...did I like that she snuggled? Absolutely. Did I like that she attacked me? Yes in that she took that initiative but I could also just have easily gone without. I have said before that it is not always easy for me right now but it was obvious that she was not just going through the motions. I can tell and so can the neighbors. It is not that I am not attracted to her and it is not that I am so bugged about the A. I don't know what it is to be honest. It does feel strange to be a man who is not interested in SF with the most beautiful woman on the planet. What is wrong with me?

Dhahran is at GMT+3 hours and I think right now we are 11 hours ahead of PST, 7 hours ahead of EST. I could be off by an hour because I used to have that math down based on Dubai which is one hour ahead of here but I think that is about right. In the summer that differential shifts by one hour since we never have daylight savings time. Saving daylight in the middle of the desert is not something most people would consider an intelligent thing to do so we never shift the clocks.

Our calendar does shift a bit. The number of days in a month is variable and depends on the appearance of the new moon. According to the Hijrah calendar, this is the year 1427. So, in that sense, we are way behind the USA. Amazing that we even have computers since they won't be invented for another 500 years. The Hijrah year is shorter than the Gregorian year so in approximately 11,069.11 years, the two calendars should exactly match (assuming that the moon is still around then).

We paid for 13 girls. DD1 is 7 and DD2 is 5. Yesterday was the last day of the school trimester so thousands of people are leaving this weekend for repat and many friends will not be here. We are celebrating both together since birthdays are close. WW is also putting less emphasis on the parties which is either because she doesn't care any more or because she is becoming more realistic. We have spent thousands of dollars on some of the birthday parties in the past. I feel like having the best Bday party was almost a competition for WW - no - it WAS a competition. We almost did that this year too in that we almost worked a deal with a local amusement park but I realized that WW was still going to add her own touchs negating the benefit of a prefab party. Even so, this one turned out not to be cheap but it was worth it to see all the personal attention and work that WW put into it. She has spent hours and hours on the gift boxes. She is very artistic and she will get so much praise from all the moms for her work. Next year there will be no party at all. DDs get that horse and, if I want the one without a cough, I have to save my riyals. This is the first year we have not made a piñata. What a relief!

As far as shows about infidelity, if I am sitting alone watching TV (which is not very much) and I see anything about infidelity, I have to change the channel. Because infidelty seems to be so pervasive, I am left with little more than the Discovery Channel which is why I know so much about endangered languages. I prefer to watch programs about animals that are faithful. I can watch programs about eagles, for example but not lions.

I am a little surprised that WW picked up on the theme. Her English is much better than it used to be. You can tell when she laughs at certain humor. I think that is the hardest part to pick up in any new language and she now laughs at pretty much all the right places.

cc46,

I don't know if WW reads my posts are not. My best guess would be not. I have never said she couldn't but she said she would not. Did not make her swear however. I just said I might prefer that she didn't and she agreed. I don't think she gives them any importance which is good for me. So far I have not felt the need to temper anything I have said since I registered her. Posting here has helped me so much. I hope she will eventually see the benefit for her.

I do want to thank everyone for the warm reception she seems to have gotten. I have not heard that anyone is whacking her with 2x4's and I do have a trusted friend who will tell me if that is happening but absolutely nothing else about her posts. I just asked him to sick a Mod on anyone who tried this early in the game because I don't want anyone to chase gemela off.

I know my mother reads my posts (BTW, Mother - I'll DHL the check for the package on Saturday but can I ask you the favor of getting me another ice skate bag? Do you remember the "penguin" bag? I want another bag from that same website but I want the pink bunny rabbit bag. There is no hurry but the penguin was a big hit so DD2 now needs a bag - even though she has no skates to put in it). Did I tell you DD2 is riding without training wheels? We have video. I'll convert and post it on the website next weekend. Rollerblades are next. Maybe that's what I'll do today. Rollerblades.

dewt,

If you're still around, the tire swing is still there buddy! Lot's of frustrated would-be thieves though! I told you I was just as smart as any six-year old. Wait a minute...is that right?

Oh yeah, man... I've been here...

Just... quietly...

...

Waiting in the bushes for one 'o' them dang theives...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Actually, the truth is that there is such chaos in my life these days that if I tried to tell you about it, It would take a long time and I'd have to change bits 'cause when you get it all at once it's quite a tad on the unbelievable side.

It would seem that my Life is being propelled through the somethingorother of existance by a exceptionally medium sized improbability drive. Its output is being boosted by a fairly inexpensive upgrade which allows small crystallized portions of pure chaos to be introduced directly into the main reaction chamber. This of course, is a monumentally unwise thing to do. Which of course, would explain why it exists.

There may or may not have been an instruction manual but if there was, it was in a language that isn't familiar to me. It was glossy and had pretty colors though.

Traicionado, you're doing fine. But it doesn't sound like recovery to me. Maybe after the birthday party Gemela will have time to think. That's all that occurs to me. Just a few more days.

Traicionado.....did you enjoyed having SF with your wife before finding about the Affair? Was it always a good experience ? Anyhow,,,its good that she initiated SF with you and you responded to her. She is obviously trying to convince you,even if she is not saying it, that she is working on the recovery too.

So you are seven hours ahead of us, since we are in the east coast. It seemed like you were light years ahead of us, you were talking about the weekend, when it was like monday here still. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />LOL Maybe I misunderstood..

I dont know....but it sounds kind of excentric the way you described your daughter's birthday parties. A deal with an amusement park? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />. That sounds like way too much , unless you are Bill Gates or Oprah, or any other millionare out there. When the kids are little like yours, birthday parties are very important, because they like to invite all their little friends, and classmates. Pinatas,cakes,balloons,maybe a clown,those things are more than enough for them. YOur wife's touch with the surprise bags sounds lovely too. Personal touches like that are nice and cool! Hope their birthdays are beautiful and wonderfull for all of you!

Shows about infidelity are all over the place. Its the favorite theme for programs and movies. Before they went unnoticed but now they are so obvious. But I guess is a normal thing and the movie moguls like to give people what the want.

Myrta

cc46,

It never occurred to me that she has become a FWW. I would expect her to have some feelings of remorse (you'd think) but I don't think she has any. I think she still misses OM and feels like she is sacrificing to stay here in the M.

I am perfectly willing to give more time. At this point, the only real risk is that I may eventually lose interest. So far I am good to go. If I lose interest, Plan B comes into effect. In my Plan B, she goes alone to Mexico to live with MIL, SIL, get a job and see what she wants out of life. I don't think that will happen any time soon unless she refuses to adhere to NC. I am also not actively trying to catch her in contact. If I do catch her, it is because she wants me to.

Is there anything I should be particularly concerned about what a typical WW might do about this time or do you think she will just eventually get through withdrawal given enough time?

I have never been wayward, so I really don;t know. Yet I think if I had been, I would either be feeling very bad because of remorse or very angry at having to give up my soulmate. The reasons don;t matter much because from what I've read waywards have all sorts of weird reason for what they do, so I would have some of that kind.

But Gemela doesn;t seem to be in either of those categories, and her actions are just "normal" as though nothing has happened. That is the impression I get from your posts and from her none posts.

I have no idea what may be going on. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

The mindset of a wayward spouse that is not leaving the marriage is difficult or impossible to understand. From my standpoint-------I would leave the marriage if i was wayward. I cannot understand the wayward people that return. Trying to understand Gemela at this point is futile. I am not even sure gemela has a clue about what is going on with herself. This is a very difficult time for her as she is full of ambivalence and the victim of a divided heart. I don't wish that to my worst enemy.

CC....I am sure Gemela feels both angry and bad because of what she did to her husband. But I am sure she still misses her OM. Just because she is not telling Traicionado. does not mean she is not having those emotions. Another way of dealing with problems and troubles is to shut down to the world. Maybe she is not talking, because she is not ready yet. I am sure she is coming to conclussions and ways out to deal with what she did. She just needs some time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

At the beginning I also did not want to post. But eventually I started to and things did improved a lot. I got a lot of feedback and counseling from veteran posters here. She probably feels embarrass to pour her heart out to strangers...its kind of hard to do at the beginning, especially when you are the "bad guy" of the movie!!

Stanley....you are not in WWs shoes,so you should not say what you would do, or not. No one knows what they will do, until they are in those shoes. Dont you think? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Like I dont know how will I react if I was a BS!!!

First of all Stan-ley, your take on the wayward returning makes sense on the surface so, from my POV which is total BS (i.e. betrayed spouse), I completely understand what you are saying. If a WW decided the marriage was not what she wanted and she found something better - just be done with it. Why wait? On the other hand, what if somebody realizes they made a mistake? I can't say gemela made a mistake (other than violating her marriage vows) - only gemela can ultimately decide whether she made a mistake or not. I guess I am just giving her time and opportunity to come to a conclusion one way or the other. Why I am doing that is a question to which I may never know the answer and am willing to accept, for the moment, that the answer is "42". My behavior is counter-intuitive to me. Maybe the answer isn't 42 - maybe I just still love gemela.

Of all the things I have read on trying to save a marriage, recover from an affair, etc, I think adrianc put it the most eloquently of all when he said "Plan A sucks!". Pretty much captures it I think. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Actually Plan A is great. If we are able to get through this, I will be so much better off, focused on the M, gemela's EN's, etc. that I will be right on dewt's heals for the Olympic gold for best marriage ever. If the M fails and we D, Plan A has given me time to grieve and reach acceptance. If we had separated 5 months ago, I would have been so much the worse for it. Plan A is a no-lose scenario from the BS perspective even if it doesn't always seem that way. I highly recommend it. Even so adrianc, you are not wrong. Well, yes you are. Plan A is not what sucks - the cause of the need for Plan A (i.e the affair) is what sucks.

Myrta,

I was in a hurry and missed your post earlier so will answer now.

Was SF always a good experience? Yes - for both 99.37% of the time.

7 hours - okay. I find 10-12 hours to be the ideal time difference for communicating with the USA and Mexico. Fits the best with the work and home schedule. Be patient with gemela. I think she will get more used to MB withme. In Islam, Friday is the sabbath so the weekend revolves around it. The Arab world traditionally takes Thursday and Friday as the weekend. As the world as come more financially linked through globalization, it is not entirely convenient to have such a large gap in trading and banking days between countries so many Arab countries have shifted and now take Friday and Saturday as their weekend to allow for one more effective trading day. Saudi is still and will be for the foreseeable future, Thursday and Friday weekend. Monday is "hump" day for us.

I mentioned to gemela about posting last night. The way she responded sounded like she actually felt guilty for not having done it and enthusiastic(?) to post soon. We got finished golfing at 6:00 and played the last four holes in the dark. Fortunately the back nine is lit. Unfortunately the lights point in the wrong direction. I don't know what idiot decided to point them in the direction of the fairway - they are totally useless for helping me find my ball. They should have aimed them toward the darn rough! Gemela was starting to play fairly well again and people were commenting on how good her swing is (she has a great coach - me). She teed off on a par 4 with a narrow wadi about 150 yards in front of the tee box. The shot was not good but straight. It hit 10 yards in front of the wadi, bounced over and hit the other side of the fairway and just kept going. She got an ovation from a foursome of women on another green nearby. I think golf is a good outlet for gemela and Stan-ley may be right about her need for admiration and golf can be a "safe" channel for that.

I don't know if there are more shows about infidelity or I am just more sensitive to them. I hate lionesses. Just because some young lion comes along and chases off the old lion? Why can't the lioness stay with the lion that has looked after her and cared for her all those years? Through the rainy seasons - through the droughts. I think I will cancel Discovery channel tomorrow <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I don't know the numerical answer but I do know that 42 is incorrect. The first law of numerical substituion states that only prime numbers can be utilized. Try again.

traicionado,

You are too funny. Cancel Discovery if that helps!

Hey, I sent you an email. Did you get it? Write if you can; I need some help on a problem...

You should read Douglas Adams. 42 is right.

No email from you but no emails at all which is strange. It may be that the corporate exchange is down. Sometimes that happens on weekends. I'll send you a PM (already done now) on SI with an "emergency" address - I say that because I almost never check it.

I saw your comment about the sleep meds. Bummer. 45 minutes is horrible. Does your MD have any advice at all? I noticed your "vent" but did not read it. Do I need to or were you just blowing off steam? I hate the way people respond to those over there. I am sorry for you and you know my feelings so I don't think I am offending you but I don't think you really want those responses either. You and I are warriors in a common cause. Battlefield acquaintances but friends for life. You have probably guessed you aren't likely to ever get any cyberhugs from me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I still get stressed at the mere thought of one of dewt's "big hug moments". Fortunately those flashbacks are now fewer and further between. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have a confession to make. I have not and will not read what gemela wrote but I I did accidentally see believer's response and it surprised me so much I read what believer wrote carefully and I will tell you why. My last two years in Dubai I was drinking way too much - insominia, stress, whatever - and on the road all the time. WW and I discussed this before making the decision to come to Saudi and that was one of our motivations. Since coming to Saudi, except for our 3 day trips a year to Bahrain to have beer with pork for lunch and the annual Pub Run we just participated in, I don't touch alcohol. I am not the one who insists on going to Bahrain for beer either - that is gemela. I also am home all the time except when I am at the office (9 hours a day) and have only been away from home for 6 days (busines trip) in the last 18 months. If she is giving the impression that I drink day and night, then one of us is lying.

1) Either everything she may have said is true (and I do wonder what she said now) and I am a liar and somebody needs to help her get away from me and get me intervention ASAP.

2) She is lying and probably because she wants someone to agree with her that the A was a good choice and that she should leave me for OM and wants to hear someone say it. [I have some experience with this which is why I mention it]

Let me tell you how the day went. She was a little quiet and reserved all day but insisted it was just nerves about the Bday party. Party went fine. She got lots of praise. Everyone raved about her gift boxes. No kids dropped any bowling balls on their feet so it was a success.

We got home and were both exhausted. Kids opened presents and we went upstairs and laid down. WW and DDs were on the bed playing but later on I was sleepy so I rolled over and went to sleep. Later WW got in bed and I felt her holding my hand and squeezing and it woke me up. I was looking at her face and she was smiling and crying (looked like she had been crying). I asked what was wrong and she said she felt bad for what she had done to me. She said I didn't deserve what she had done and shouldn't forgive her. We talked for a bit and I told her ILY, etc. and that I was just fulfilling the promise I made to her when I married her. All people make mistakes and we are forgiven, learn and grow. It was a long conversation. The short version was that she said she does feel sad and cry but doesn't want me to see so she does that in private when we are all out of the house. I told her that I was here to help her and that, whatever her feelings, she needed to communicate that with me and we needed to get through it together. She said she still has feelings for OM, has not talked to him since January, is confused because everyone tells her what she had was a fantasy (she used that word several times), wants to stay and try to work on the marriage and, if that does not work, later on she will go to Mexico and try to get her feelings and thoughts together - she will never go to England. She saids she has no plans to seperate and hopes that her feelings for OM will fad and allow her to get back into the M. She said she had gotten advice from MB that going to UK was not an option and that what she had was not real. She says she is confused.

Now, one logical explanation is that whatever she said is true and I am lying about everything and she has been reading all my posts so knows exactly what I am looking for and is trying to show me those things so I won't be suspicious.

I am glad that apparently nobody suggested that her best decision was to go run off with the OM because I think that is was she was desperately doing anything she could think of to try to get someone to suggest. If she were to do that, it would destroy everything she is.

I don't want anyone to tell me what gemela is saying. I apologize for having read believer's post. All I do want to say is if there is anything anyone needs to question me on to understand better, please feel free. I am here to get any and all help I can to save my M. I want gemela here to get any and all help she needs.

If I really am a bad person with all these character faults, why would it benefit me to try to get gemela to post here? Whatever your opinion, please please continue to help gemela in any way you can and please please never let it occur to her that going to be with OM is a viable option. She has too many other good choices available for that.

Again, I am sorry believer for having read your post.

Traicionado....hmm, I told you that Gemela was crying and missing OM in private. I did that too, and I am sure others have as well. Its kind of embarrassing like I said, to cry for Another Man in front of your husband. To add insult to injury!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />.

It sounds like you had a very good conversation with your wife. I am so sure she wants the marriage to work, but Traicionado. at the beginning there are many doubts. To stay with husband , or to leave everything and run off with OM. But as days,weeks,go by you see things more and more clear. Give her time to think , to get rid of her feelings and emotions for that other man. Time will tell her what to do.

I am glad that the birthday went well and everyone had fun!!

I am also glad you are clarifying that you dont drink in an every day basis. That will not help the situation right now at all. You have to have a clear head to deal with a recovery of a marriage.

Nobody here will suggest any WW to run off with an OM. Thats crazy and completely against MB or moral principles. The purpose is for WWs to terminate ilicit relationships and work in their marriages. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Myrta

Traicionado,

MD advised getting some sleep. I paid $75.00 for that advice. He advised a take a warm bath and practice relaxation techniques.

No, you do not need to read my vent. It was written by an imposter, not me. The imposter only had 45 minutes of sleep last night and was hallucinating. Everyone means well with their responses. I don’t pass judgment. Overall, I have received great support over there.

That was my first vent in a while. I hated it after I posted it but will let it stand for posterity sakes. I had a troubling hour long conversation with DS3. That was the catalyst for the vent.

No, I have never worried about receiving cyberhugs from you. Chards of ice, yes – but no hugs. Suits me fine.

"If she is giving the impression that I drink day and night, then one of us is lying."

No, she is not lying. She said EXACTLY what you said. Actually I read one post (in Spanish) and gave my reply, and then she corrected me. But let's not talk about her posts.

As long as we are being honest, I AM starting to worry about Gemela. I don't think she is having contact, and I don't think she is planning to leave her family.

HOWEVER, I do have a bit of a problem with her situation. I've been thinking about this for a week or so now. Gemela has very little power in determining her future. As a mother, it makes me cringe. I think she loves her children and it bothers me that you apparently have the power to send her here or there, with no regards for her rights as there mother.

If you lived in the U.S., she would be able to have an attorney to protect her. She would either get custody, shared custody, or at least visitation with your girls.

I believe that she was taken advantage of by a habitual predator, and yes, she made a huge mistake. But I don't think that she deserves to lose her children.

Hey Traicionado,

I agree with you that it's best you don't read Gemela's thread. It's a pity that you read Believers answer. It might have iven you an incorrect idea.

I think it's great that Gemela is posting and actually talking about herself and HER perception of her life. It's good she's doing this. Now have patience... again.

If you go back through my long winded original thread, I have never said once that she is in any danger of losing her children. I have said that, if she chooses to run off with OM, she goes alone. If she can prove that her relationship with OM is longlasting and she proves that she can provide a stable home, we will share custody of the WW's. If she wants to just get a divorce and go her separate way, that is entirely different. She has never said she wants a divorce - quite the opposite. On the other hand, I have told gemela from day one and again last night that I will never deny her a divorce if she asks for it.

Gemela's only problem with determining her future from my POV is that she has never thought about any alternate future other than with OM. Separation, divorce, nothing ever popped into her head until the A.

If you go back through all my threads, show me where I have ever said that she stays with me or loses the girls forever. I don't think you'll find it - in fact I believe you will find the opposite.

Its very hard not to read each others posts. Too much temptation to know what the other one is saying. Stanley and I tried not to read each other's posts but it was impossible for us <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />. But we survived!!

In their case its very important for them to stick to the promise of not reading each others,though, since there are other issues involved.

I agree with Believer, Gemela should not have the fear "over her head" that if she misteps she could lose her two little girls. Its horrible feeling to live like that for her.

Myrta

Okay, Traicianado, I may have read that into your posts. Please accept my apology. I think I'm looking at it from a mother's point of view, and not being sure of the whole SA thing.

Gemela is finally talking to folks here. I feel like there is a lot of hope for your family.

I hope you will have some patience and work on being the best husband and father possible.

I don't think Gemela realizes the good life she has with you, and I give you credit for providing for your family. Please don't give up.