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Kiwi Knows... I have the t-shirt. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> LA
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Here it is:
The Giver and the Taker
Have you ever suspected your spouse of having two personalities -- one that is caring and considerate and one that seems impossible to get along with? I'm sure you've not only noticed, but you've probably been horrified by the impossible one. I call these two personalities the Giver and the Taker.
We all have them, Givers and Takers, and they make marital problem solving much more difficult than it should be. To help you understand why it's so difficult to communicate in marriage, and why it's so hard to be consistently kind and considerate, I'll explain to you who these characters are and how they make marriage so difficult.
The Giver is the part of you that follows the rule: do whatever you can to make the other person happy and avoid anything that makes the other person unhappy, even if it makes you unhappy. It's the part of you that wants to make a difference in the lives of others, and it grows out of a basic instinct that we all share, a deep reservoir of love and concern for those around us.
But the Giver is only half of the story. The other half is the Taker. It's the part of you that follows the rule: do whatever you can to make yourself happy and avoid anything that makes yourself unhappy, even if it makes others unhappy. It's the part of you that wants the most out of life, and it grows out of your basic instinct for self-preservation.
In everyday life, our Givers and Takers usually solve problems together. They recognize our need to give and take simultaneously. For example, when we buy groceries, we give money and take groceries. We don't give more money than the grocer charges us and we don't take groceries without paying for them.
But in marriage, a strange thing happens to the way our Givers and Takers operate. They seem to work independently of each other. Either the Giver is in charge, and we give unconditionally to our spouses, or the Taker is in charge where we take what we want from our spouses without giving anything in return.
When the Giver is in charge, we are loving and considerate. But we tend to make personal sacrifices to see to it that our spouses are happy and fulfilled, because our Takers are not there to defend our personal interests and our Givers do not care how we feel.
But when the Taker is in charge, we are rude, demanding and inconsiderate. All we seem to think about is ourselves, and what our spouses can do to make us happy. We expect our spouses to make sacrifices for us, because our Takers don't care how our spouses feel.
I want to emphasize to you that this is normal behavior in marriage. You might think you're married to a crazy person, or you may think you're crazy yourself, but let me assure you, marriage is one of the very few conditions that bring out the pure Giver and Taker in each of us. And that usually makes us seem much crazier than we really are.
It should be no surprise to you that it isn't the Giver that ruins marriages -- it's the Taker. But the Giver plays a very important role in creating the problem. It's the effort of the Giver to give our spouses anything they want that sets up the Taker for it's destructive acts. After you have been giving, giving, giving to your spouse, and receiving little in return (because you haven't bargained for much), your Taker rises up to straighten out the situation. It sees the unfairness of it all, and steps in to balance the books. But instead of coming to a more balanced arrangement, where you get something for what you give, the Taker just moves the Giver out of the picture altogether. It says, "I've been giving enough, now it's your turn to give."
Sound familiar? We've all been through it, but it doesn't work. All our Takers do is rouse our spouses' Taker and before we can say, "Bull in a china closet," we're having fight.
Which brings up a very important observation -- The Taker's instinctive strategy for getting what we need in marriage is to make demands, show disrespect and have an angry outburst. Does that also sound familiar? They are the stupid instincts that I call, Love Busters. And that's precisely what the Taker usually does when given control of our marriage -- they ruin the love we have for each other.
But I'm getting a little ahead of myself. Before you can understand fully how Takers make us argue instead of negotiate, I need to explain my next concept to you.
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Actually, I slipped in who I was directing my question to...which happens when you get old and take off your glasses.
I would like to hear what Kiwi thinks, too. That's like a rhetorical invite in my book...
Traic? Everything after the ... after Kiwi's name, though, is directly to you.
Oy...I gotta turn on a light in here...and I'm not talking about my room.
LA
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I would like to hear what Kiwi thinks, too. That's like a rhetorical invite in my book... Heeeeey, should I be offended. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
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Er?? Why??? I know you're not offended...did I use rhetorical invite incorrectly?
LA
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I took it as meaning that you'll always get an opinion from me whether it's asked for or not. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> A rhetorical invite is an "unnecessary invite" one that is already a given.
LMAO.
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Goodness me, I just looked up rhetorical in the dictionary. It means "Eloquent, or eloquently expressed." Now I'm blushing. I was thinking of "rhetorical question" which has a completely different meaning. "Questions that do not require an answer, but are only put in the form of a question in order to produce a greater effect,..are called rhetorical questions." Thank you, LA, now I know I was receiving a compliment. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
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(Believer pouring herself a glass of wine and relaxing now that her two favorite experts are here).
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Wow, more compliments.
Well, I've just checked my world clock. It's 5.00am where Traic is so I don't expect we'll hear from him for a while.
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We're upping your prescription for admiration, Kiwi... LOL Oh, I'm so happy you quoted those definitions, even if you just made them up. I love that word, rhetorical, and threw it around with glee. Landed on my cat feet, didn't I? Dang...Traic just has every excuse, doesn't he? ROFL ((((believer)))) How are youse? Let's put Traic's thread to good use behind his back...shall we? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> LA
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Maybe I am off base or maybe we are nit-picking. Certain things make gemela happy and certain things make me happy. In general, "things" don't really make me happy. Maybe the one exception is Snap-On tools. They have an innate ability by their intrinsic nature to make me happy. When I am really down, I go into my tool room and meditate with my tools. Harley's don't make me happy. Riding Harley's makes me happy. So a Harley, as a thing in and of itself, does not make me happy.
What makes/made me happy was just being with gemela and DDs. Whatever the context. It never mattered where I lived, what I did as long as we were together. I love gemela and always wanted her to be happy. I realize that I failed at that so there is no need to point it out to me. I never cared where we went for vacation. I have seen more of the world than I ever cared to (except maybe for New Caledonia). I let gemela decide. I don't really care what furniture we get as long as the couch is long enough to sleep on fully stretched out. I was almost always happy in my marriage to gemela. I just enjoyed seeing her smile, feeling her hand in mine, smelling her hair when we hugged. I was happy whenever we left the house for a trip and I heard her exclaim "ching..." because she had forgotten something. ["ching" is short for "chinga tu madre" BTW and she does it every time - she only says ching however]. I love it when she gets upset and says "Miercoles" instead of Mierda. I love the look on her fac when she is working something out and then the little smile she gets when she has the solution.
By myself I am happy when I finish a new software and it is "perfect" and flawless - better than best. I am happy when I am building something with my Snap-On tools and have the perfect tool for the task in my hand. I was happy when the last nail went in to the tree house I built for DDs with absolutely no plans - just created as I went. I can make me happy but when I am together with gemela, I already happy. I don't need much else. I have too many "things" and most of them don't make me very happy.
I have a golf cart now. It doesn't make me happy. It is now broken and I am waiting on parts to fix it. That makes me happy. I am already visualizing how I will do it. I am smiling.
We take DDs with us to play golf on weekends. They get bored in the golf cart. They don't know this yet but I bought them a portable DVD so they can watch movies while we play golf. I am happy just thinking about the surprise they are going to get and I am happy about hearing them argue over which movies to watch and watching them compromise. This will happen tomorrow BTW and I am already happy about it.
So where am I missing the boat?
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Dang, he's still up. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Just kidding. "Maybe I am off base or maybe we are nit-picking." Okay, I'm voting for the first answer. "I realize that I failed at that so there is no need to point it out to me." What???? I go to the universal truth you cannot make another human happy, and you go to failure, like I'm pointing it out? As a human, you only have control of yourself...you cannot cause, control or cure another human being. A new way of saying this I picked up today..."You can't make anybody nuthin' but a sandwich." This truth isn't in your belief system...seems you believe you have control, not just human influence...which cannot be controlled by you...others limit your influence on them...sometimes wide open access and other times, nada, zilch. Same with you and others. You just showed how you make yourself happy, choosing to love, loving yourself, knowing your needs and meeting them well, in your easy style, joyous expression and essence of you. Yet the same you, not smiling said that you have never wanted anything for yourself except for gemela's happiness. Selfish selflessness. I didn't mean things at all...though I'm delighted to find Snap-on as the fountain of happiness in your workroom. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Truly, I am! I'm am attempting to hand you a tool to use in your life...a premise to live by...which does not change with mood, wrongdoing by others or circumstances. It is within you. You fear your own darkness inside because you believe it can bring gemela down...dissolve her happiness. It can't. It is yours. Influence, affect? Yes. No control...allowed influence. Her A wasn't affected by your darkness...and you were riddled with it at times...you are human...and true intimacy is allowing her into that darkness...I'm asking you to be safe enough for her to enter...and vice versa. I want to see your Plan A change your lives into something you haven't experienced before...not a geographic location, but a new level of being. You're worth it. Intriniscally. Whether you subscribe to that or not...you are. You're my brother. And I love you even though you triggered me back to my H's A with your "ching." Good to know it gets easier and easier over time...had a few missed heartbeats and then I breathed and it's gone. Down to 30 seconds. Okay, now rethinking it is growing it... Crud. Okay. Better. LA
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I know I can't make gemela happy. I just want her to be happy. Maybe that is where this is breaking down. If I have a choice between two things and one make sher happy and the other doesn't, I opt for the one that let's her be happy. Right now yes I am hiding some of my feeling from gemela because she is hurting very much too. She needs hope just as much as I do. She has very clearly defined the boundaries of what is open for discussion against everyone's advice.
I did not realize that word was a trigger for you. I don't have any idea why but sorry I said it. It is just one of those funny little things she always does.
Last night we went out to buy paint for the toy room. On the way to Toy's R Us, she said that word and remembered she had forgotten to buy "azul mexicano" paint for a closet door. On the way back from Toy's R US, she said the word again and remembered she had forgotten to look for a new pool for DDs. I just looked at her and smiled.
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Okay, so when you said
"I have always wanted to make her happy - no conditions attached. I never wanted anything for myself - not in all the years of the marriage."
You meant "I have always wanted for her to be happy -- no conditions attached. I never wanted anything for myself" is that correct?
And what if gemela is sad, needs to be sad, lose hope, struggle with her life...what then? What does that do to you and your happiness?
LA
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layman's words:
Traic....wanting only G's happiness is short-changing yourself and your self-worth...
laying yourself down on the sacrificial altar even for your beloved's happiness is not fair to YOU...
making yourself happy, through osmosis can go a long way to making G happy....
if I'm wrong in my translation, may LA smack me with a noodle...
Words have the power to both destroy and heal. When words are both true and kind, they can change our world.
~~Buddha
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(Believer pouring herself a glass of wine and relaxing now that her two favorite experts are here). and Dylan, having run home to get a glass, hopes believer will share....is it white or red??...nevermind...like it matters..lol... let's put our feet up, shall we..I LOVE to watch LA when she 'works'....
Words have the power to both destroy and heal. When words are both true and kind, they can change our world.
~~Buddha
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Cooked or uncooked noodle?
Funny how Traic always makes me USE mine.
LA
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well, you are more of a cooked noodle and I am more of an uncooked noodle...so smack me with both.....
my university degree wasn't in translation anyway...so pfffft!
although...I can swear like a sailor in Arabic....
Words have the power to both destroy and heal. When words are both true and kind, they can change our world.
~~Buddha
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Oh, that must come in handy...I know a lot of Arabian sailors. LOL I don't have a degree. I feel pffft'd. I certainly do. Believer took her wine and shut the heck up. So much for an audience. ::  :: <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> LA P.S. And I pasta on da noodle entirely. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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I don't have a degree. I feel pffft'd. LOL.... I don't use mine... have a degree in Theology and Archaeology...but...I'm an unemployed sous-chef.... go figure.... ha ha ha ha ha......... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Words have the power to both destroy and heal. When words are both true and kind, they can change our world.
~~Buddha
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