Hmmph, not very funny. Read what I posted to Uniman. I copied it but lost it when I copied your quote and can't be bothered copying it again.

But you're forgiven.

Pop another 40. Trust me on this. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

[ashamed...groveling...sorry...feeling lower than knees on a grasshopper...]

No problemo. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I was just waiting on the DHL truck to get my golf cart parts and bumped into gemela in the commissary. She was surprised to see me but smiled and generally friendly. She touched my back or arm from time to time. I was not unfriendly but a little more reserved than normal - still a little uncomfortable from yesterday. I think maybe it is time for gemela to decide what she wants and to convince me one way or the other. I have not and will not apologize for not trusting her. I won't apologize for much of anything actually.

I feel pretty darn good. I feel almost happy. Maybe a KG of peyote would just put me over the top. What tribe was that that uses peyote? Do they have a headquarters near Cancun?

Traicionado,

You are managing just fine. remember to show compassion,when she needs it. This is what you were waiting for.

IMHO you may just be about to start recovery...

cc46,

You and I are not reading the same thread. I FEEL like I am about to get divorced.

I am not being mean to gemela in any way.

I am trying to put out a warm environment for gemela.
I am trying to put out a positive impression.
I am trying to put out my best effort for Plan A.

I guess I just find this all very trying and I am extremely put out.

T,
we're reading the same thread. We may not be on the same wave lengths though.

See, I didn't think you were in recovery or anything even similar to that. But others did and since I don't have any personal experience I didn't actually come out and tell you.

How could you be in recovery when Gemela had not acknowledged that she may have done something wrong! The particular circumstances in your situation (OM leaving the country, Gemela having to leave her children to be with him if she wanted, her family and their culture, her fear of the financial situation, the fact that you've always "taken care of her", etc) just made this lack of commitment longer. IMHO she was still in an EA.

You were probably doing a good plan A EXCEPT for the fact that you did not tell her when and how the A affected you. You were not being sincere in that aspect. Gemela probably thinks you are strong and can take everything and anything, atleast that's the impression you give me. I think you should show her how much the A hurt you and that you are willing to re-design yourmarriage, giving Gemela half the power. Study the policy of joint agreement. Gemela would have to do her part in that and you will have to give up some of what you thought you were doing FOR Gemela. SHE HS TO DO HER PART and you would show your love for her by helping her to do her part and not taking over.

Start reading about recovery. It's time.

Okay this post coincides a little more with my perception of the situation. I think gemela is still googoo-eyed for OM. I told her yesterday that I thought she was still in contact with OM somehow but I had no proof and was not interested in proving it. She neither confirmed nor denied it but we didn't really hit it head on like that either so she was never in a position to say one way or the other. I was not asking or accusing - I was simply stating my beliefs. That was one of them.

Whatever gemela's issues are for her staying or leaving are her problem. If she has to stay for her culture or her children, she can either suffer it or find a way to like it. I am no longer in the "happy gemela" business. I will be the best husband any woman could ever want but it is up to her to decide if she wants it. If not, I will find someone who will. Simple as that.

I follow the POJA much more than gemela does. I have tried to be careful to adhere to it. She is not and it is honestly starting to grate. So far I have had bigger fish to fry.

I forgot to mention - WW and DDs did not get in any trouble but the INS interrogated the bear for over four hours.

T, don't get defensive.

It's important that you know that you will manage whatever happens. But don't act as if it doesn;t make any difference what happens. It does.

Instead of accusing Gemela of things, can you try stating your worries and fears sincerely?
Like saying that you FEAR that she is still in touch with M and that that would mean that she is not committed to the marriage and that that makes you sad.


BTW I don't think one person can follow POJA more than the other. Either you POJA or you don't. So you probably aren't following the policy. Does G know what it's about? does she know she HAS TO participate?
No threats, no paybacks.

I know this has been going on for too long and you are starting not to care. This is when normally you should go to plan B but because of the place you live and other particular circumstances I don't think plan B is a good idea.

I can't remember who all has said this now since this theme has come up so often but I know that believer and Bigger have said I could not do a Plan B and now you say it too. Does nobody think I can be successful at anything? I feel like such a failure - I can't even start Plan B because I would fail at it. It's not fair. Should I stay in Plan A until we get directly to Plan D? To be honest, if we go to Plan B, I won't want her back so it might as well be Plan D. Why are you convinced I could not do Plan B. Many have said it but nobody has explained why. Just curious.

T,

plan B means not seeing or talking to the WS. How could you manage that in your situation? Can you move away? or make Gemela move away? And still be a father to your dds?

The bad thing in your situation is that you're sort of stuck in between plans, and situations. Seems TO ME, personal opinion, that Gemela is still in an EA, and unfortunately she probably feels entitled to it because she has played at recovery and you have taken it. I know, you were in plan A, but not really, because she WAS pretending it was recovery and sometimes it sounded to me that you were too. But I don't see how it can be recovery without a sincere commitment from the WS. Both Myrta Staley and others believed you were in recovery. I never did.

There was that SINCERE MOMENT missing when there is either a commitment or an acknowledgement of the mistake from the WS.

That never happened in your case.

That's why I think plan B would only make things more confusing and it's not practical in your case. Too difficult to do.

What I really think mught work is that you decide to have one real planned conversation with Gemela. PLAN IT. BE SINCERE. Tell her what you feel and what you would like. You need to get her to be sincere and open herself up to you otherwise she is not involved.

Who is she talking to? she's not posting nor going to IC or MC, so where is she?

BTW I'm sure you would be able to do a very successful plan B. You are strong in that sense. TOO STRONG for that kind of thing and too weak to show your "real" fears to Gemela.

Oops, I better duck

T. I'm going out with the dog for a while, be back in less than an hour. OK?

I agree there has never been one sign of remorse. I am not sure gemela is talking to anyone (unless it is OM). I think she distracts herself enough and can pretend enough that she does not need it. I feel like she is in denial about everything.

Getting gemela to leave is a simple matter of cancelling her visa. She is gone in 72 hours. She knows that.



I don't know that I accept that. I think I am caught on the horns of the proverbial dilemma. I think gemela needs to see strength (for which I have no problem). Telling her my fears I have avoided to an extent because I felt it was not part of a good Plan A (I may be wrong about that and apparently am) but I have been trying to create a place where she felt safe. We also have the issue that she will not allow discussion of the affair and she says everything about the M before the A has been discussed nine ways to Sunday so she sees no point in talking about any of it again.

I feel cheated. I see others get to ask anything and everything they want about the A and I can't even mention it. Do you know what I want? I want to drive with gemela over to their secret place and have her show me the door of the house they used for their interludes. Then I want her to take me to the pool where they met every day and have her explain what went on during those afternoons. That is what I want. I don't know why I want that. I think I want that to steal from her this secret little enclave she maintains.

Well I won't be able to post again until 3:30 or 4:00AM (12 hours from now) so you guys load me up with what I am doing wrong and I will get on it in the morning.

As soon as I get home I have to repair the golf cart because gemela signed us up for a shotgun start at 6:45 this evening. I am surprised she even decided to tell me.

T, I completely agree with you about what you want. And why haven't you told her that? Probably because you never had the chance, because she never asked you what it would take for you to forgive her or how she could make YOU feel better. And that's because she's still in an EA. That's why I don't think you guys are in recovery.

What I would do ( but you should ask others their opinion too) is plan a meeting and tell Gemela everything you feel, that the relationship is stuck, that you don't feel comfortable, that the A is ever present and you have no closure or possibilities of working towards the futur as long as she doesn't do those things you need (go the places where she met OM etc) and that although you love her and would love to have a great marriage with her, you cannot do it alone. You are willing to help her and support her anyway she needs as long as she wants to be married to you, but not like this. No more pretending, no more walking on eggshells.

Sit yourself down and make a list of the things you need from her. IC, MB , POJA, etc

Also give her the alternative. But don't punish her. Just tell her that you would not be able to live with her and that you are not willing to give your daughters up. So that you would POJA that solution if that is what she chooses.

then give her a few days to decide, set a date, set a meeting and see what happens. That's what I would do.

No LBs no DJs. ust the facts. I would read all Dr. Harley's books first and write down things. It would be a crucial moment.

Just my opinion.

Have you written to Dr. Harley?

are you back?

I asked gemela how she was feeling about our talk and she said okay. She asked me how I was feeling and I said about the same. I said that I felt that we were going nowhere and would continue to go nowhere. She refused to commit to R, she refused to leave the A behind. She just hoped that somehow this would all magically disappear. She isn't going to IC, we aren't going to MC. She refuses to discuss the A. She argued that the neighbor told her we shouldn't discuss the A. I thought it was ridicules to get M advice from a man who just filed for divorce. She said the MC said we shouldn't and she was not ready to discuss it. I told her it was not all just about her and what she wanted. I did want to discuss it and I was tired of this playing around. I am not going to just sit around on my thumbs waiting for her to get over her swimming instructor. This is no life for me.

I told her that this just wasn't working out and that we should separate. She agreed that she did want to take a "break". Then I explained that the break would be permanent. I wanted a D. I have been waiting and waiting and I am tired of waiting. It is time we both get on with our lives and seek our happiness. She already found hers in her OM so I wanted to be free to find mine. She said she thought things were getting better and she was not ready to give up yet. I told her I didn't care what she felt or wanted. I reminded her that I said before that if she kept this game up for long enough that I would lose interest and I have lost interest. I want a wife who will love me and be faithful to me and she apparently is not it.

I don't think the reality of that discussion has hit home. I think she is in denial about it. She is still touchy feely. She held my arm as we went to sleep. Maybe she just needs time for this to soak in.

T, I guess this was just the continuation of the earlier conversation.

Did you read my previous post? Do you want to comment?

Traic, you'd better be completely sure that's what you really want.

Otherwise, you are a playing a very, very dangerous game.