T,

I still think you should re read SAA. It only takes a few hours (4 or 5). You can sit on a sand hill and read it in an afternoon.

One of the surprising facts (at least for me) that Dr. H states and is very sure about is that an apology from the WS is not necessary for complete recovery. It will probably eventually come, but may take a long while.

Bob Pure got his heartfelt apology about 1 year into recovery. And yet although it meant a lot to him at the moment, it was not an important issue in his recovery, it was just one more stone in the path, in the long run. At least that's how I perceived it.

Daggi, I'm sorry that you have no access to SAA. I do hope you get it. On this board we do have the knowledge from the book, and lots of other "second hand info" we get from people who are able to counsel with the Harleys.
When I reasearched the subject, I found that Dr. H has the most comprehensive and complete philosophy about infidelity. Most of the others who talk about the subject seem to agree with Dr. Harley on the main points but do not explain the details so well. Experience and knowledge do give you that faculty to make things simple and clear when you express them. Hearing Dr. Harley answer people who call is even more fascinating! He never hesitates! he answers with a logical and experience based proposal.

You can even e mail him and he will answer you personally.

Everything about him points to knowledge, experience and good will to help.

He has also said that he does not give advice unless he is asked for it. And that is also very intelligent, because people would not appreciate the advice unless they ask for it.

While you don't have SAA read EVERYTHING on the main page of this site. There is a lot of information. That's what I did. It took me quite a while to get SAA, because I too live where it is not available. Later Dr. Harley sent me 2 more books, free. But for the first couple of months I depended on everything I could read here and eventually from reading the stories of those who posted on the forum.

T, back to you. I will continue praying for you, and for Gemela. Unfortunately G doesn't seem to want any help. At least from us. So I will pray even more for her. She probably feels very lonely.

T, as usual I have to work, and go to the supermarket today, and then I'm going to a public discussion of the Da Vinci Code, which should be interesting, so I may not be around much today.
I will read but may not be able to answer.Not that I don't care, I really do, and hope that you will take your time before deciding your marriage, and Gemela's future, because although you say that she is free, I don't believe that that is really true. I don't think you believe it either.

Gemela and I seem to be back on great terms like we were a couple of days ago. I feel that she is making a lot of effort to try to stay in the marriage and I feel she is making a lot of effort to make me feel better. I feel she is frustrated that I don't trust her and she doesn't understand why. I feel that she is still NC and plans to remain that way. I feel that she is not interested in discussing the A or how it affected and still affects me. I feel she gives no thought as to how her current actions will affect me.

I feel that I don't want my DDs to lose their parents. I feel that I love gemela but am losing interest in this crusade. I feel like I can go on a bit longer. I feel like this is all very unfair. I feel I have no rights. I feel really hurt by this A.

But there I go talking about me me me.

Traicionado....It seems you are much more positive today about your marriage. I am happy for both of you. I think you are seeing the struggles that Gemela is going thru. She is working in the marriage, but in her own way. She wants to be married to you and to stay right there with you and the girls. I am sure she knows whats the OM is worth by now. She is not foggy any more, I dont think. She is still young and she might get overhwhelmed more easily and thats why she rather not talk about anything that will bring her more hardship. She will open up more as time goes by and she sees that you truly love her and want to stay with her. YOu have a pretty young wife with two little daughters, and you should try and try to save your marriage. It will be worth it!

She is sorry for what she did. But its hard to say it, because remember at a time she thought the OM was her soul mate......but he is not! She risked all her life with you and the girls with a worthless man. She knows this.

Be well and try to be happy and positive.

CC64, i have read everything on the main page over and over, but i dont feel it applies to me anymore, my Husband is living only in his own little world, and i am letting him go, there is nothing i can do anymore. And no book can bring him around enough to talk to me about anything, i will read it though, just to humor me when it gets here, if i am still here by then...lol

Traic, I am glad to hear that things are looking better for you, you have put yourself on a backburner for a long time, you have not had any of your needs filled in a long time, of course you feel the way you do about yourself. You have been hurt and you want her to acknowledge that, but it must also be very painful for her to face and maybe she needs to work up the courage for it first. I do believe in end it will all have been worth it Traic. You have hung in there for so long, and things have changed, just at a very slow pace, hang in there as long as you have the strength. And there is nothing wrong with telling her when you run out of strength at times. We are all only human beings.

Traic, absolutely nothing to do with you. The OM has contacted me.

tell us more Kiwi...

I will if Traic doesn't mind me using his thread to tell it. I don't want to start a new thread.

I wrote it out, it sounded all wrong. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Kiwi....I hope you are doing ok. That happened to me some months ago, that OM showed up in my town . It was an unexpected and scary event!! I hope you are doing well. I am sure you will be ok and so is your husband! JUst try to relax

Myrta, the OM lives very near to us. I met him accidentally a couple of weeks ago in the supermarket. He joined the line behind me so it wasn't accidental on his part. He could have pretended not to see me, I would never have known. We talked.

Last week he parked beside me at our local shops. I know it wasn't accidental because I'd seen him before that on the side of the road. He knows what time I leave work and what time I'll be coming past the shops.

He is trying to renew contact. It's not scarey but it is very unsettling.

Kiwi, I'm sure that Traic won't mind you using his thread.

I'm also sure that you know what to do. Honesty is your best weapon.

You are human to be flattered. Who wouldn't be, but at some point this OM might become a stalker. so be careful. That is scary.

Oh wow....thats really unsettling. Is he not married any more? If he is still married...the wife should know what he is doing/ How is your husband handling the situation> you? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Ah, you did see it before I edited.

He won't become a stalker. He's a coward. He also won't contact me outright ie by e-mail because then he would be "contacting" me if you know what I mean.

In his mind as long as it's "accidental" he's not doing anything wrong.

I also have to be very careful. I'm very vulnerable where the OM is concerned. I hate to admit that but it's the truth.

Myrta, I haven't told my H. I know I have to. Yes, he's still married.

Kiwi---Are you kind of hesitant to tell your husband? When did this happened? I mean the encounters with OM?

It happened last week. I'm hesitant to tell him because it will upset him all over again - not because of me but because the OM is prowling around again.

I fell terrible t/jing Traic's thread. Perhaps I should start one up.

I know what you mean, Kiwi. I was hesitant to tell my husband when my OM flew over to my town. My husband was so angry . But he handled pretty well. He was proud of me for telling him <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Your husband adores you,he will be ok, he is much stronger now.

Kiwi,

OM contacted my WW many times during the aftermath of DD. WW also contacted OM. I found out the tough way, through cell records and other snooping. It certainly would have lessened the impact if WW had told me about contact as soon as possible.

Why have you not shared this with H?

Mainly because we are 2 years past D-day without any contact at all. I will share it with him. I need to pick my moment.

I won't be around for a while - I'm at work and I'm busy. Just so you know I haven't disappeared.

Kiwi,

I remember reading a post by a FWW once. She said that she was proud that she confessed her affair to her husband; he was disappointed that it took her six days. I can imagine that if I were given this news, my first question would be: when did it happen? Then, noting the time frame discrepancy between contact and disclosure, my second question would be what took you so long to tell me? This is a situation in which contact must be communicated immediately. However you are the one on the firing line so to speak and may have what you consider good reasons for the delay.

If this happened to my wife, my concern would be the apparent "stalking" that took place. I realize that you don't consider it as such but for him to park in front of shops that he knows you frequent on the way home from work, well the operative word may not be stalking but it surely isn't accidental either.