What are you doing about this? How do you expect to have a relationship with someone if you don't share yourself?



But YOU can be intimate, YOU can tell her what you feel, with no LBs and no DJs. EVERY sentence should start with "I feel...".

Someday she will answer with her own "I feel..." and then you will have a relationship, an intimate one. THAT is commitment to your marriage. Don't go doing it with anyone else! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />



That is not plan A! Re read plan A.

Keep in mind that nobody SEES themselves as a grumpy, disagreeable, unhappy person. We all see ourselves as nice, happy, caring people who cannot be themselves because of X and Y and Z. Wrong! Do not blame X, Y and Z. Look inside ourselves!
So if you were to be who you think you are, wouldn't you be upbeat and positive?



Shouldn't you be trying to find out what a R is? What have you been dong all these months??????? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Or don't you want to know? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />




Depends on how you work the TODAY, the present situation.

If you "pretend" nothing happened, we all know what will happen when she meets this or any other OM....



I will share but on my religious divorce thread.

But it is NOT the solution for you. I have been on a journey, for a long time, and I am ready for this next step. It is for ME at this point of my personal journey , it is not a universal solution.

So, what now?

I am going to go home in an hour and tell gemela why I have been sad lately. Then I am going to take an Oreo and carefully divide it into five exactly equal parts. Then I am going to diet. Then gemela and I are going to go online and book part of our vacation. Then I don't know. I don't care either.

If you don't care, then stop posting!!!!!! so I can stop answering you!<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

While you book your holidays, try (TRY) inserting your feelings into your choices.... like for example: I would like this hotel because it has a jacuzzi and I would love to share one with you....

Listen to her. Use SS's technique: ask her why, why she would like to go there, what she feels about doing this and that... Involve her as PART of the decisions.

When do I get my oreos?

Problem with the email notification is I cannot see the emoticons - I can only see that some are there. I though you were sticking your tongue out at me. Oh well.

I don't care about what happens next after what I have planned. I will take whatever comes. You inferred the wrong message. I did not imply anything. I never said I don't care about my family.

Hotel is already decided. We want the one with the monorail.

Take a break. Get some oreos. Get some sleep.

See you tomorrow!

Nothing is restricted here!

we have oreos, but I think they are made here, so they may be different.

On tuesday when I go to the supermarket I will buy some in your honor. Personally I have my sugar free chocolate, every night!

Sugar-free chocolate is like non-alcoholic beer. What's the point?

It's the chocolate!!!!!!!!!!!

and I have diabetes

You're missing the point: when you drink beer, you are actually drinking it FOR the alcohol. But when I eat chocolate I eat it for the chocolate and not the sugar, so if it's sugarless, it's an advantage.

You see, you have to be sure of why you do things and WHAT you really want. Remember oreos don't cure a toothache, although at first it might seem the pain is less.

"I am between a rock and a hard place." This is an image of external choices...not internal ones.

"If I tell gemela how I really feel some times, I feel she will think the M is hopeless and decide to give up." This is your block to intimacy...this is an example of controlling...by withholding. You may be right or you may be wrong about her response. Choosing what you do, think, say and feel based on her possible response is self-betrayal. Feels a lot like betrayal you experienced, only cumulative.

"A sort of self-fulfilling prophecy. So I have to be positive and upbeat per plan A which I am not all the time feeling which makes the sadness even worse. This whole thing is convoluted at the moment." Unravel it...find your payoff. By withholding your "self" you are choosing to bar intimacy with G...which can feel like vulnerability with someone you don't trust...and you need to choose intimacy, anyway.

Two reasons...one, you cannot be respectful if you assume or mindread...expect response...neither to her nor to yourself. You are worth knowing, intimately...sharing who you are, what you feel and believe is how you connect to another person.

The by-product of respect is that it allows, opens the pathway, for G to connect to you...her choice. See, controlling behavior prevents intimacy...it is fear-based. What you most crave from G is what you aren't giving...her acknowledgment, remorse, thoughts, feelings...and until you do so, bravely, she cannot do so with you...and most likely, because she is fearing your response, assuming and mindreading. Until you respect she can leave, her choice, and chooses not to, even after you've expected her to, then you won't get that her presence is by choice, not due to your control.

"At the moment, I feel like I have reopened a lot of wounds over the "tear" issue. If I get the opportunity," Make the opportunity, as cc said. This is you speaking, not contingent on G listening...you do it for you. To acknowledge and be loyal to your code...

"I have no problem telling gemela that. I still get back to an old topic. How do I really know I want R when I have no clue what R really is?" This is exactly what being intimate is--sharing what you don't know, what you ponder, struggle with...not giving only knowns.

"And, excuse me but I am also wondering what will happen two years from now when WW runs into OM again. Will we go back to square one? I wish I knew the answers to these questions." Going into the future where you can't go is like controlling yourself...telling yourself if onlys or what ifs is you wanting security when there is none. There hasn't been your whole life...you are you, separate...you taught yourself that known variables contained answers...and they don't. They are variables. Humans are. When they choose to share themselves, only then can you see them as new, different...if you've got your respectacles on.

Please stay present. That's your reality...and you share it with everyone on the planet.

Why divorce thoughts after thoughts of wanting nothing more in life than to make G happy, DD's happy? Two extremes...beware extremes. They signal you to the hurt inside, your own fear, and know that is your youngest belief at work, seeing only black or white. Wanting to stop pain, as cc said, which isn't stopping pain...

LA

Traic, I think I hurt your feelings last night. I thought what you said was cute not offensive at all.

LA,

I will read your post on email later. They are always a bit hard for me to understand. I am now convinced that the "tear" letter is what has gotten me in this slump. It was hard enough to write in English but I was able to do it somewhat analytically. However, when I had to translate it into Spanish, I had to dig down and examine every emotion to try to make sure I was describing it as accurately as possible given my ability in Spanish. Unfortunately that caused me to relive each feeling. It was a bit like what people say about your life passing before your eyes when you die. Well I felt the entire A pass through my body in a few hours. It has really taken its toll on me and I only now realize that.

Right now I only have one comment about gemela not being able to leave and you can all analyze it to your hearts' content. Some say gemela cannot leave because of the DDs. Well that is her choice. Just because my wife decides to go out and have an affair, why does that mean I have to lose my children? Gemela can leave any time she wishes. I am not keeping her here. If she is staying, that is her choice whatever the reason. Adrianc wants to stay with his girls and that is wonderful. I want to keep my girls and I am controlling. Can't you see that this confuses me?

Stan-ley,

I am not going to post on KiwiJ's thread because I am too upset right now. I hope you read this. I totally understand what you posted. Whether it was correctly timed or not for KiwiJ, I don't know. But it was for me. Thanks. You said exactly how I feel about my own situation. It is nice to know I am not alone in those thoughts.

T, I asked you a while ago how this would work in your real life and you never answered.

Do you mean that Gemela can rent a place to live and you guys can share the girls?

BTW I really think you should change your screen name. It keeps you in the same place.

T - I think everyone here is feeling bad for Jen and her husband. To me it just proves that there can never again be contact.

You have taken care of that.

I used to feel bad for Gemela, because I don't want her to lose her daughters. But there is really no other choice if she would ever leave to be with the OM. I would never want your daughters to go with him. He could even be a child molester for all we know.

Yes gemela can rent a place to live and we share the girls. We would be in different countries so we would not be doing weekend sharing but we would have a schedule.

What screen name would you suggest? Perdido? Sin esperanza? I'm open. Sorry. I'm really upset right now.

Should I just let gemela go with DDs to Mexico and lose them? Will that make everyone happy? Everyone except me that is?

so it's not that simple. For Gemela, leaving is quite complicated. Not only would she not have her dds, she would probably not even know where to start to have a life...

So your situation is not the typical one.

I'm sorry you're having a bad day. I'll pray for you and maybe you just might find it getting better. Or it might take a while. I know, I've been there.

hadn't you once hosen another screen name form one of Winnie the Pooh's characters?

It's just that traicionado keeps reminding you of what happened...

Most of us have been betrayed, but there is no need to dwell on the fact. The whole point of MB is to SURVIVE that as best possible.
If you don't feel good, let it go today and we'll talk tomorrow or sometime during the week. Do something you enjoy...

t, I'm going to sleep now. See you in about 6 1/2 hours.

have fun with Todd and the late night crew!

No Todd and the late night crew tonight. kiwi's thread put me over the edge. I am going away for a few days. Traic, if you need me and where my head is now, you know where to find me.

Hey T,

send me an e mail address so I can send you a song about my country. I challenge you to understand it! It will be fun and i will take your mind off other things.