WS is saying some new things tonight...

OM is a better lover than I am. That she can't imagine us ever having sex again.

That I am not attractive to her because I'm never selfish and I suffocate her...

She says that I don't get it... that she doesn't love me and probably never will again.

are these common remarks or is she being honest?


my heart breaks the more she talks...

Normal, normal, normal. Pretend that she is a drug addict, talking about her crack.

It's all in the WS handbook. They all say these same things. They hurt only if you allow them to. It's typical FOG babble. Expect it. Learn how to reverse babble (Find an Orchid post and link to Reverse Babbling). As crazy as it sounds just tend to agree and then change the subject.

"yes dear, I probably have been a little predictable in bed the last few years...I'll work on that...what's for dinner"

"yes dear, I've let myself go a bit...maybe I'll join that Gym finally...I've been talking about it for years, remember how in shape I was in College...makes me think of that day we went to blah, blah, blah"

Let is bounce right off you. It's part of the ratiolizations and justifications her mind has conjured up to excuse her inappropriate behavior. Her survival depends on this.

What's important is she is talking to you...many BS have wive's completely detached from communicating anything with them. Hard to say...but you are fortunate...keep her talking, and talking and talking. The more you listen the better your Plan A is. Get to know your wife as intimately as you can...and ignore the crap she throws at you.

Good luck...I know how tough this part is but you will make it...with or without your wife...you will make it.

Mr. Wondering

thanks for the advice...

Is it a good sign that she wants me to rub her hair at night or right before she gets up in the morning? Or is it all null and void since she is still in contact with the OM. Sometimes she is receptive to a little affection... like holding her or rubbing her hair. Should I pull back or do it if she asks?

just wondering if rubbing her hair helps me in any way.

Thanks

Yes, that is good and you should continue. But that is only one part of Plan A. In order to effectively bust up the affair, it has to be exposed.

believer -

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

believer!!!!!

Such language!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

PD - being new to this challenge, you are demonstrating common BS tendencies to try to analyze everything she does and says.

Try very hard not to do this. It'll drive you nuts.

She's ALREADY nuts and YOU need to stay sane!

She is going to flip flop, do mental gymnastics, zig zag, somersault, and any number of other mind boggling things.

Just watch.

Detach.

Try to see the dark humor in it.

WSs can be very funny!

This is the beauty of the alien abduction hypothesis. See her as NOT NORMAL. See her as being experimented on by the aliens on the Mothership. No earthly explanation will do for her wild gyrations.

OK?

PDAVENPORT,
What have you done or considered doing about exposure?
This is a crucial part of Plan A. Sitting on your hands is time wasted, that could have been used in busting up the ongoing affair.
Make no second guess's about this, it will not end until it is truly exposed to the light of day. The secret bubble has to be burst!
Most A's cannot survive that light. That is why it is imperative that you do your part to shine that light on what is taking place.
Your WW will be furious and tell you how this is the deal breaker, etc. etc. etc. But look at it this way, your M is already gone if she continues the A. As others have said so many times before, your M can survive her initial anger, but it will not survive her A.
The choice is yours,
All blessings,
Jerry

PD...

I said all the same crap that your WW is saying...it is all a bunch of fog babble...IGNORE IT!!! Let's get the ball rolling on EXPOSURE...that is what you MUST do next, seriously...

Mrs. W

WW says that the PA is over and that there is no way it will happen again, but she also says that she wil not stop contact with him...
I have told some about the affair... family her close friends, etc.

This may seem like a dumb idea, but things seem better. What are the chances of a relapse without 100% no contact?

..if exposure makes her lose her job...that effects me and the kids as well. There has to be some limit to that.

The chances of a relapse are pretty close to 100% I'd say...until there is no contact she will not withdraw, and there can be no real recovery...you are setting yourself up for a false recovery, or worse...Your wife can get another job, she can't get another you...pretty sure that your wife's involvement in an ongoing affair will affect you and your children more than the loss of a job...your call...

Mrs. W

LOL....You've spoken like a Champion Conflict Avoider ("Do I really have to address this")

Will it Relapse????????

It would not be considered a relapse it would be considered a continuation of an on-going emotional affair.

Things getting better is only a manipulative tool being utilized by her to prolong her addiction to OM. It is an attempt to maintain the status quo and NOT to be respected. You don't really just want things BETTER, you want the BEST marriage you can possible have. Think of it this way, as long as she is disrespecting you and your marriage are things really that much BETTER or is it just "almost" tolerable.

I think I said this already:

Friends can become lovers, but lovers can never become friends.

When she crossed that line with this "Friend" she ended an semblance of an appropriate friendship with him, forever. That was HER choice...not yours. Giving him up, in respect of your marriage, in respect of your kids, is a CONSEQUENCE of her decisions. There is no COMPROMISE available. He goes, or eventually, she goes.

As far as losing the job, the monetary effect on you and the kids PALES in comparison to the monetary and emotional effect of the termination of the marriage. There simply is NO comparison.

Mr. Wondering

lol

BTW...my wife is at home and I am at work...we are NOT in the same room cross posting.

Mr. Dubya

Just remember, you or your wife can get another job. If your wife is exposed to om at the workplace, the chances of marriage recovery are slim.

She will not start feeling love towards you until No Contact has been established.

Marriage = NO CONTACT WHATSOEVER WITH OM

On a large scale, losing a job is nothing compared to losing your wife to another man.

Best of luck,

Sincerely,
K.D.'s Heartbreak

She has not finished the affair, my friend. It can't "relapse" if it never stops. As long as she continues to see him, the affair is ON. There is NO HOPE of recovery or of the affair stopping as long as they are in touch.

This is sort of like sending an alcoholic into the bar every day and giving him a drink and then wondering why he NEVER recovers. CAlling those drinks "professional drinks" might sound cute, but guess what? THEY ARE STILL DRINKS. It is the same with an affair. Any contact your W has with the OM IS AN AFFAIR. You can call it cute names like "professional contact" but guess what? Contact is still contact. You cannot turn an affair into a business relationship anymore than you can turn an alcoholic into a social drinker.

As far as the job, she will have to leave it if you want to save your marriage. You can't have both. I think you want the easy, softer path, and this will avail you NOTHING, until you make some sacrifices and take some risks. Avoiding any conflict will not save your marriage.

Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through ******. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

Thanks for the advice. I have exposed to a few friends at her work via email... no responses yet.

Tonight wasn't that good. WW said that she was going to the track to go running. I drove by to see if she was really there, and she was. Whe she got home, she asked me if I drove by the track, and I said yes.

She got mad. she said that things would have no chance of working out if I continued to snoop and not trust her.

At this point, I left her alone to go read to avoid a fight. She came up and siad a real man wouldn't read advice books or call people for help. He would make up his own mind on things.

Later, she also said that she didn't know why I continue to make things about the affair... that it has nothing to do with our problems. That she didn't want to be with the OM or me. That she was picking neither one of us.

She also tried to pick a fight about how I don't help around the house. ---This was 30 min. after I fed our girls and gave them a bath.

she says that I continue to suffocate her...

I'm having trouble giving her the space she needs... it's confusing. one minute she wants me to rub her hair, the next, she wants me to leave her alone... ??

Pddavenport,

So she wants actions, then give her what she wants. Put the house up for sale, go see a lawyer about suing the school board for not putting an end to the affair and tolerating it, and seek temporary custody of the kids. That should end this nonsense don't you think?

If you are not willing to do this, go to a lawyer about suing the school board and proceed. That will expose the affair to people that count. You have gotten great advice and ignored it so far and the cost of ignoring it is not going to be much just...your kids, your home, your marriage, and probably a good chunk of your earnings for the next 18 years.

She is challenging you to do something that will give her an excuse to divorce you on HER grounds. Go see a lawyer and protect yourself and then expose to the school board. Given that OM will probably remain at the school, she is done at that school period unless your lack of action gets you thrown out of the house, the marriage and her life, then they can shack up and teach your children some just fine lessons. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Are you getting the point? I sure hope so. Avoiding conflict is absolutely the best way to not only be in conflict but to lose all you hold dear. At this point absolutely NOTHING you can do will make any difference with regard to making her happy. What you can do is protect your children, your life, and your livelihood and that will may YOU happy.

Expose this affair to the right people, get a very very good lawyer. Don't try to save money on this a bad lawyer will cost you more in the long run, and believe it a divorce is really expensive. Take preemptive action now and you may yet avoid the affair.

Don't argue, do LB, don't commit any DJ's just do what is right for your children and you, protect them and yourself. Your biggest failing was not standing up to her about spending and such much earlier. Don't compound by NOT standing up for your marriage.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Thats cute and low risk but will not get you much results. Exposure needs to be done to key targets that influence her life, such as her parents, employers, the OMW, the OM parents. It should be done in one fell swoop in order to achieve the maximum impact. Otherwise it is like taking a pea shooter to a gun fight.

Your W is babbling the typical WS FOGESE that is designed to keep you from interfering with her affair. WS's who have something to hide always complain about snooping. But you know what? People who have nothing to hide, DON'T HIDE.

So, it is up to you pd, you will get out of this what you put into it. If you do nothing, you will get nothing in return. And let me leave you with something: women do not respect men they can run over. And often our love is contingent upon our feelings of respect. Something to think about the next time you get an urge to allow her to run over you.

Good for her. Allow her to feel her emotions too.

Blah, blah - fog babble. Answer: You're absolutely right, I do need advice and I have made up my own mind. This A must end immediately.

Fog babble - let her vent. Nod politely. Change the subject. Don't get sarcastic. Don't get disrespectful.

Typical WS behavior. She's feeling guilty. She wants you to feel guilty too. Don't buy it for a second.

She really said that?

Wow.

If I was thirty years younger I would have responded, [dailyshow]"A real woman wouldn't be having an affair - she'd be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen."[/dailyshow]

I think JL nailed it, above.

Affairs in schools, churches, the US Military, many workplaces, and other places that ostensibly have "rules" against adultery represent an exposure resource many of us didn't have. Don't squander yours.