I Moved Gooner's Thread over here from JUST FOUND OUT.

I left my first post here last week saying I was suspicious of my wifeand her friend and I took advice and installeda keylogger.

Just found out within 10 mins she is involved with him.Already had conflict and she phoned her friend to delete her mailbox asap.I was stupid I should have waited but my emotions were so mixed up.Her mails certainly showed 100% EA but there are examples of PA.

I dont know what to do. Her boyfriend rang me saying he ended the A last week though I had already threatened to tell his W.I love my wife and we have 2 kids aged 3 and 5.I want her to move out for a period and she refuses to do so.

She categorically denies sleeping with him as does he( he is also married)but I think she is just saying this so as not to be labeled a physical cheater.I dont know what to do...I think I could handle the EA thing in time but I really need her to be honest about the PA.

As you might realise Im screwed up at the moment...

PS she has been lying to me about the EA for 6 months at least.. and Im sure she and her friend have both agreed to deny anything physical..

How can I get the truth? I feel as if everything has been destroyed and when I ask her why she did it she says I dont know..She says she loves me but likes him a lot. HELP

Have you told his wife yet?

Did you make any copies of messages to show his wife?

Don't expect any truth before you finish exposure.

Just-

I don't know that I'm a *Guru*, but I've always wanted to be...lol

You don't need her to admit ANYTHING. You already know, so it's pointless to try to get her to admit.

As WAT asked....did you print out what you found on the computer??

Keep the keylogger software on the computer.....WS's are dumb so she may go on there again anyway.

The only think that this evidence is good for is finding out if she is definitely having an Affair.......and you already know she is.

You need to EXPOSE.....That's the only way to break this up.

By the way, you DO NOT want her moving out of that house. I know her actions are hurtful, but it will be so much easier to Plan A her if she's there.

I know you're hurt......and I know you're distinguishing a difference between EA and PA.....but trust me they are both equally damaging to the marriage.

Read up on Plan A and implement.........and EXPOSE EXPOSE EXPOSE. (And just a side note on exposure...start making a list of everyone you are going to expose to, with phone numbers ETC. and do it ALL AT ONCE to maximize impact)

God Bless,

-Caren

STEP 1 thru Step 15 = EXPOSE to OM's wife. Calmly and rationalling explain to OM's wife what you know, what you have discussed with OM.

Expect some very ugly fireworks. Angry outbursts from WW telling you that "you blew any chance of us being married, you ruined her life, you humiliated me,"....all part of the WS mantra....

Read up on this site, people here can and will give you excellent advice but understand the site and what it stands for. Best of luck to you.

Just....you around?

God Bless,

-Caren

Thanks for the advice.. we spoke for hours last night and she explained everything about the EA. She is upset and says the EA is over but she is confused and wants time to see if we can make our marriage work. She says and in my opinion rightly so that as a married person she shouldnt have felt like this towards someone else and she has to try to find out why she did.She is unsure of her feelings towards me now and we have given it a month for her to work thru her emotions. Unfortunately it is difficult for us to separate properly so we will probably have to share the same home! Ouch!! She reiterated that the EA is over (though I think the OM broke it up when he sensed I was getting close to exposure) but she says she can not promise no contact with him... I think she really fell for him... Anyway I am going to try to keep my frustrations and anger down inside me to give us a fighting chance.Do I feel positive.. Not sure but my W says she has taken OM out of her circle and she is now solely thinking about me, the two kids and herself. Her main question is Can she satisfy me from now on. She feels belittled infront of me and feels she has lost all my trust and respect.. not far wrong!!! I shall read plan A very well but I have decided not to expose at the moment. At the end of the month we will both sit down and decide if we BOTH want to continue.. If any GURU's have any more advice on how I should handle the next month then I would really appreciate it. Oh and thank you so much for the moral support.. I cant talk to anyone here about it just in case we do get back together.. so once again big thank you to everyone at MB. It is nice to know I'm not the only one!!

Gooner-

Not exposing is a mistake.

Even if she has broken it off with OM, what's going to keep her on the straight and narrow???

She is saying she won't promise NC, so you have exactly nothing to work with.

If the affair is over, exposure would be an insurance policy so that it wouldn't rekindle.

Deciding against exposure WILL destroy your marriage.

God Bless,

-Caren

Caren, thanks for the advice but why will my marriage be over if I don't expose? If I expose to OMW what will I gain? Won't that just push them closer together? In the end I set an ultimatom with OM and said if I ever learn there has been contact I will expose.. What r the benefits to exposing or keeping it quiet. If I expose who should I expose to? Thanks again

Gooner-

Exposure is a necessary step in Plan A. By exposing the affair you put pressure on it from outside sources. OMW can be especially helpful as she will UNDOUBTEDLY land on OM with both feet over this. He obviously doesn't want to leave his wife, or he'd have done it already.

Exposure does tick the WS off, but your marriage can survive her being mad at you. You marriage WILL NOT survive if you don't kill this affair. (By the way, the WS doesn't stay mad for long....trust me)

What is keeping her dirty little secret gaining you??? You are enabling the affair by doing so.

What exposure does is expose the Affair to the light of reality. Affairs can't survive there. They are based on secrecy and lies.

Have you heard people on this forum post about their WS being in the *fog*??? Well think of it this way......what get's rid of fog??? SUNLIGHT!! Sunlight burns off the fog.

I know what you're thinking....that this can't possibly be good for your relationship. That your WW will never trust you again. But I swear to you doing Plan A and exposing are the best tools you can have to end the affair!!

I need MelodyLane. She explains this so much better than I do.

God Bless,

-Caren

Exposure is an important step but how you expose it ismportant.

If your W is truly repentant and willing to work through these issues with help (IC/MC, reading, etc.), then she will understand why you need to expose. If she gets angry.... you will need to expose more swiftly. Why? Because her anger c/b a sign the A is still raging, even if it is only in 'her' head. Anything more just adds to the fire. So douse it out with exposure.

Now if your W is truly repentant..... you can expose by anonomously (sp??) sending a book like: Dr Harley's His Needs/Her Needs....to there home with a note that you found this book helpful and you are sharing it with some you know who you thought thought would benefit from it as a couple interested in improving their M. No further explanation required.... you can later let it be known that you are acquainted with the OM.

Wouldn't that be funny.....Why do it this way? Because if the A ever does start up and the OM is involved, you already have access to the OM's W.

JMHO,
L.

thanks again Caren, will go for plan A and try to fulfil some of those ENs, show less anger and stop asking questions but still feel I'll give W the benefit of our 30 day wait and see period. No exposure just yet but the emails are well hidden!!

Gooner-

Waiting 30 days is just going to be 30 days you can never get back. 30 more days to restore your marriage.

If your wife were addicted to heroin would you give her 30 more days to use before you helped her?

She wants 30 more days so she can be with OM 30 more days.

By not exposing you are enabling this affair....is that what you want to do?

God Bless,

-Caren

Caren, thank you it is done. I exposed A to OMW. We spoke for 50 minutes on the phone and it was all very amicable. OM is away on business but I learned that they both (OM+W) planned to meet in another city on March 9th-10th. How should I play this 30 day period. In the end I can not force my W to stay with me. If she wants to cheat on me she can, and has been anyway so I'm a little confused about the next 30 days. Should I have a hands off policy or should I lay down the law and say if you go there I will leave? Any suggestions about this period would be welcome.

Gooner, I think that from your questions you've still not really read up on plan A and I strongly encourage you to do so. In fact the best way to make your M work is to read up on all of the MB principles.

Are you familiar with the term "fog"? Your W is in the fog and right now all she is saying is blah blah blah cover my lies... blah blah let me have my cake and eat it too... blah blah rewrite history... blah blah. Do not put any stock in what she is saying good or bad.

I know you are confused and it is hard to keep your emotions in check but for plan A to work you have to not LB and honestly until things stabilize you probably won't be able to meet her EN's. This is a process and will take time and a lot of work but I know from personal experience that it can happen for you and your W.

One piece of personal advice I'd give is don't get to hung up on the whole EA vs PA right now. I did and it just slowed down getting started on our R. Besides, you aren't going to get an honest answer at this point and in time the truth will come out. Ya know once I really understood them both I always said that deciding if you would rather deal with and EA or a PA was liking asking if you'd rather get run over by a bus or a dump truck. EIther way it's really going to hurt!!

Hang in there and always remember IT'S A GREAT DAY TO BE ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There are no benefits to NOT exposing, none. There are benefits to exposing in that it is RUINOUS to affairs. Affairs thrive on secrecy and exposure is simply the most potent weapon you have in your arsenal.

We have had affairs that were killed the SAME DAY from exposure. There are no guarantees of that, but at the very least, it will cause the affair to begin crumbling, because no one wants to carry on a sleazy affair with everyone watching.

Secondly, the worst thing you could do is to make a THREAT to expose. Threats don't end affairs. They only forarm the affairess so that they can disarm your weapon. They know that exposure will ruin their affair so if they think you may expose them, they simply pre-empt you by telling key people that you are an insanely jealous nut who is imagining an affair. Then when you do call, you are dismissed as a nut. Happens ALL THE TIME.

Exposure will RUIN the affair, Goober. By not exposing you are HELPING the affair thrive. Just ask yourself whose side you are on?

But if you get to the target first, and give them all the facts, they are more likely to take you seriously.

gooner, what is the purpose of this 30 day period? Were I you, I would wait to see what the fallout will be by exposing to the OMW. This may very end the affair and end any talk of a 30 day seperation.

Just be prepared for her fury. It will blow over, so don't let it upset you. Just tell her that you love her and that you will do what it takes to save your marriage. Don't try to reason with her, that will be impossible. And don't let her bait you into any fights.

If this doesn't end the affair, you will want to expose to her parents, friends and the workplace.

Ya did good!

Mel-

Thanks for jumping in here, you always explain this so much better than I do.

Gooner-



I would also wait and see what happens due to your exposure to OMW.

But, in the meantime, you still need to be Plan Aing your WW. Go to the *questionnaire* portion of this site and look at the Emotional Needs Questionnaire. Most WS's refuse to fill this out (that'd be too much like trying) but you can make an educated guess what her EN's are and start trying to fill the top 3.

Don't lay down ultimatums, don't say "If you don't do this I'm leaving" that's just going to make her feel cornered.

Let her know that even though she says she stopped seeing the OM, that you will need her to write a NC letter to him. That you love her and you want to keep your family together, but that can't happen until she stops seeing the OM.

You did a good job exposing to OMW, you should be proud of yourself!

Now it's time to get to work filling those EN's.

By the way, it's best not to tell your WW..."Hey I'm filling your EN's" or tell her that "I am Plan Aing you"...I wouldn't mention any of your tactics at all. You don't want to reveal your *hand*.

God Bless,

-Caren

Caren, you were doing a GREAT JOB all on your own! Keep up the good work. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LOL, well thank you Mel, but I maintain that you are much better at this than I am.

I get all flustered trying to talk a new BS into this exposure thing, I can't seem to drive the point home as well as you do.

God Bless,

-Caren

real thanks to everyone, W + OM have told each other its over or so she tells me so it is time to move on ( if I can trust her . BIG issue for me).. We filled in the EN form two weeks ago and I rated very high on virtually everything. I have asked her since then what I can do to fill in any ENs she has but she has told me I do everything well.( so well she needs OM!!!) One problem she says is she wonders if the sexual magnetism has gone or was it ever there even.. Wow that is a biggie for me.. I am trying to come to terms with everything..re fall out to exposure she even said do it if u feel better and she has shown no fury whatsoever which leads me to think that they might just keep going on regardless.. OM has denied any sort of EA/PA to his W( she phoned me just now).. anyway once again cheers