Chaka,
"Have any of you ever attended one? "
No I have not ever attended one. I have read books, many of them on self help issues.

"So, you don't think she'll see these things as futile or manipulative since she has told me she and OP are "exclusive"? Gawd, what if she told me to please not send anything else -- that it's not appropriate given her "relationship" with OP?"
She may do just that. She is a foggy alien right now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Anything is possible, IMHO. If she doesnt want you to send anything, let her know you respect her wishes and dont send them. Try a new tactic and keep trying, be the "beacon" in the fog if possible. But do be honest with her about your feelings.

"I definitely still have love -- tons of it. As you may have read, my tentative timeframe is April 9th. That will have given her three months with OP -- two of which will have been out of our house. That is April 9th if I can stand it that long. It IS hard. "
I did read about your timeframe. Dr. Harley said women in plan a can only last so long before they go to plan B. So you will know when you are ready, may be even before that.
Then the others will have to help you. I am not even a novice there. But I was reading a few people write about plan b, it looks hard, but right now what isnt hard? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

"I guess I realized how much I had taken for granted and how my reactions and frailties had hurt her (which is NOT an excuse for cheating). '
Have you told her this?


"I'm going to try really hard to not withdraw. It is hard, as you all know. Especially because my M.O. has always been to protect myself at all costs--up to and including shutting the person out completely."
I know that part quite well, I should have written the book.
LOL. This primal instinct to withdraw, protect, hide, can be overwhelming, but you can and will overcome it. I have faith in you, you have faith in you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The other part about doing for you is great. How do you feel as a person right now? What is your outlook on you? How is your daughter doing? How is her coping? Do you two chat and discuss things? Maybe you and her could do special things together? Keeping busy is sometimes another hurdle. Even with being a mom, when time stands still I have to find busy things. I cleaned out the tupperware cupboard!! That was a long 3 hour ordeal. Why do we have so much darn tupperware? And finding the lids to go with the darn containers, felt like I was doing a 3000 peice puzzle for darn sakes. Geez. LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Well I am off to watch a sappy chick flick, Sleepless in Seattle for the umpteeth time. Chat with you soon.
JE <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

As much as I would have liked to have a say in the matter, with the help of this site and my therapist, I do fully realize that I cannot end the affair. I know it has to play out and I only hope that what people here/MB say is true -- that most affairs die a natural death in six months or so -- up to two years. I have been doing a lot of work on myself which I still believe will help me us in our RECOVERY. I have not had the strength yet to fully accept the other avenue.



Ain't that the truth!!! I keep trying.


You are absolutely right! I think the "gradual withdrawal" is definitely what she is hoping for.


I do, also -- at some point. I'm still giving Plan A my best shot and am thinking about Plan B for sometime between the middle of March and end of April. I've been thinking about the letter, but I get so caught up in my other stuff -- constant reading of the threads here, listening to a book on CD, reading The Courage to Heal, working in the Courage to Heal Workbook, reading Surviving An Affair, etc., etc.


As perplexing as that would be to her, it truly is just not my personality. I would not be able to pull it off. I am about as transparent as they come and she'd totally get it.

Thanks a lot for your feedback, A.M.

Yeah, I'm feeling like my nightstand is becoming a library. And, now, the idea of a workshop is definitely on the back burner. I just have too much to tackle right now. I'm committed to spending three nights a week reading/working with The Courage to Heal; reading these threads constantly (including yours, JE (((((JE))))); reading Surviving an Affair; and listening to The Five Languages of Love on CD!!!! Oh my GOSH -- that book, those words, the message in that book is so RIGHT ON that it may be one of the BEST purchases I have ever made!!!!! I LOVE it and wish I could drive for 10 hours straight to keep listening. That is one book that I will keep in my car and replay and replay. I also have Fear of Intimacy on my nightstand. I do Sudoku when I don't feel like feeling or thinking. And, trying to do an awesome Plan A. Boy, it's tiring fighting for my self and for my relationship. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

Okay. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I just hope that doesn't happen. Yesterday, during my lunch hour, I went to Aaron Bros. Art Store and bought a piece of posterboard and a set of 10 colorful ultrafine Sharpies. I cut the board down to the size of a large (12"x11") envelope. At the top, I wrote "Things I Love and Appreciate About XXX". Then, in all the different colors, going in all directions, upside down, diaganol, straigh across, etc., I neatly wrote about 50 things that I love and appreciate about her. It turned out really cool and I mailed it yesterday afternoon. I hope she gets it today and that it helps her to remember my love, our love and our relationship. I made a shrunken copy for me to keep and it really made me smile and help me to remember why I love her so much.

So far, it doesn't seem like she'll tell me to stop, but ya know, she doesn't really respond either. Except for the license plates -- she was very surprised, happy and said thank you.

However, she asked me to remind her of something in e-mail the other day and there were two items, so I sent:

XXX's To-Do List:
1. Call/write Human Resources to correct beneficiary information.
2. Send co-pay stuff to Chaka.
3. Don't forget Chaka loves me more than I can ever imagine.

No response whatsoever. Why do you think that is? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Y'know, I just finished my first draft of my Plan B letter and I actually feel some RELIEF from the horrendous existence that is limbo.

Anybody else ever feel that way?

Even though I'm not to the point of wanting to implement Plan B yet, just having the letter started has kind of freed up some space in my head. Of course, I hope that I won't have to use it -- and am thinking my timing is mid-March to the end of April. I intend to fax it to my therapist to discuss with her on Monday and I would also like to post it here for feedback.

WG and I are tentatively having lunch or dinner tomorrow (Friday) and, at that time, I hope to get verbal confirmation (that's ALL I can get) with regard to her promise to continue to pay a large chunk of the mortgage and a couple other joint bills. Once that is out of the way and the Plan B letter is in final form, I think I can release an even bigger sigh of relief and concentrate more on my self and continuing Plan A until it becomes too painful.

Your thoughts?

Chaka,
When or if you have to implement plan B, she may get nasty. Will that not effect you financially? I mean, with me I know if we were to D I have legal recourse and child support, half of all investments and house. What about you? You will need to settle finances and insurance prior, maybe not but if you are on her insurance and you do plan B does she legally have to keep you on it? She is already cheating on you, what keeps that promise to you?
I just want you to see and be able to look at all angles. Like stated here you are dealing with a "foggy" person, her responses may change once plan B is implemented.
Right now she is having her cake and eating it too. Even though you two only see each other once in a while, she is still getting a need or two met by you. If that contact is cut off, well then that may change alot of issues for you and your D.

Do you feel like you HAVE to have her? Do you feel that you can "fix" her feelings?
JE

You are absolutely right, JE. And, as hard as it would be for me to move, bring in a roommate or whatever, it is a chance I would be willing to take once I gave WG the Plan B letter. I just cannot and will not continue to be part of WG's fantasy -- Julie as the girlfriend and me as the buddy. Not happenin'. We had much more than a "buddy" relationship that I believe is recoverable -- and could be many times over better than it ever was.


No. I want her and I love her.
No. I do feel excited about the changes in me, however.

And, I do worry about recovery. I am actively making changes and pursuing self improvement. I worry about her not pursuing self improvement. I don't think that would work. We'll see.

Thanks for checking in -- I appreciate it. How are you doing?

You need to worry about you and DD. You keep making your changes for you and improving what you can with you. Keep in a stellar plan A until you need to move to plan B. A roommate is a good idea, just not a new friend...OK...
Let WG own her own chit. You be great without being a doormat.

I am ok. I am in alot of pain and its making me cranky. But I cannot change it, so I am trying to deal with it the best I can. I have just had enough. Tests, MRIs, Xrays, Therapy, and last I have an appt. coming up for a Neurologist to do an EMG...where they stick needles all over and send electrical currents through the nerves. My orthopedic surgeon thinks there is alot of permanent nerve damage, and much more going on. I will have MRI and xray info on Mon or Tues. the latest then will hopefully know if I need surgery on shoulder. Then Neuro for the neck and Ulnar nerve crap. All from a work injury 5 years ago that was never treated correctly and I have scoliosis from that also. It has really screwed up my quality of life for sure. But I am reading and re-reading my new signature line and trying to live it.
With FWH, it is going slow. One day at a time, with good days and bad days. I am reading co-dependant no more and it is also helping.
JE

I'm drafting/editing my Plan B letter and am wondering about the above. Your thoughts, anybody?

WGF and I were supposed to have lunch today. She got off work at 4:20 AM. I happened to wake up at 4:20 and texted her "What time are we doing lunch?" She called me back and we settled on 12:30 or 1:00 because she has to go back to work at 3:00 PM.

I texted back, "Do you want to just make it 12:45 so you'll have time to go home and take care of the dogs before your 3:00 job?"

She waited an hour (5:36 AM) to reply "I'll take a raincheck -- had drinks with the supervisor because he is leaving. Just going home now. I'll call you when I wake up."

I thought BullS__! I thought "raincheck" meant she'd see how she felt about going to lunch when she got some sleep. Why am I so naieve sometimes.

It's 3:20 PM. She finally JUST NOW called. I ignored the phone because I am hurt and annoyed that she (a) canceled our date; and (b) waited till 3:20 to call.

I believe, after talking to me, that she and OP decided she would spend the "night" (this morning/afternoon) with OP. So, she talked to me at 4:20 and made plans. Went home, to take care of the dogs, gather her things, whatever. Talked to OP and made plans to come to OP's house after taking care of the dogs.

Called OP at 5:20 to say she was on her way.

Called me at 5:36 to "take a raincheck."

Spent all morning and afternoon with OP until she went to work at 3:00 PM today.

Called me at 3:15 PM. Seeing her number, I ignored the phone. Voicemail said "I'm working at 2nd & Madison from 3-11. So... ...call me if you want...or I'll talk to you tomorrow or later tonight."

Here's my confusion. Normally, I would want to call her on all the BS. Do I need to get over making these kinds of assumptions? How do I make my brain stop playing detective? Do I say anything to her?

And, I THINK she knows that I want to see her and she told me where she is (three blocks from my office) so that I'll come by after I get off work (4:30).

I'm hurt and angry at the lies. At her cancelling. At her spending so much time/nights with OP. At my being given the crumbs.

I'm still in Plan A (and my timeline is getting shorter and shorter!). Should I go by? Should I call back? Should I ignore everything and just go home?

Please, you experienced wise ones who have gone through Plan A -- what do you think I should do? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I am not sure how to advise you, but I wanted to bump this up so you could get some input.

Thanks, Jean. I'm in a really sad mood this morning and am sitting down to finish my Plan B letter. I can't handle it anymore -- the pain is too much.

We had lunch yesterday and had a nice time. I shared some stuff with WGF about my childhood. I got her reassurance about paying a large chunk of the mortgage for the next two years. She said "The only thing I want, is when we sell it, the windows need to be paid off before we split the equity." So, in her mind, it's not a matter of "If we don't get back together..." or "IF we sell the house...", it's "When."

She doesn't look at me gently and lovingly anymore. She doesn't reach for my hand. She doesn't ask me how I'm coping. She doesn't ever talk about that "door being open".....it breaks my heart.

Her sister and nieces are coming to town today for a doctor's appointment. We will have dinner here, play games or whatever and then spend tomorrow together.

She worked last night and went back to work early this morning, so when she asked, I willingly said I would take the dogs overnight.

She needed her tennies for work last night. When we were leaving her apartment, she grabbed her boots. I said "Why are you taking those?" "So I don't have to take them to my car later." As we're walking down the hallway, I couldn't help it (I'm sick of her thinking I'm a flipping idiot!) and I said "You must not be coming home tonight." (How convenient that she doesn't have to go take care of her dogs!) She looked at me in a confused and sheepish way and said "I don't know.." I said "I'm not stupid." She said, "I know you're not stupid, I'm trying to protect you." I replied "You're not protecting me."

We took the dogs outside, and it was so hard for me to not cry. I couldn't even look her direction. I thought to myself "I can't do this anymore. It hurts too much. Tomorrow is the last supper (think I'll make her favorites) and Monday when her sister leaves, I'm giving her the letter. I just can't keep doing this." Inside I was sobbing. We went back to my car and she gave me a hug and said "Thanks for telling me (a childhood experience that she was not aware of)." I said "Thanks for listening." She said "I'll see you tomorrow."

I got in my car and started bawling. HOW did this happen to us???? I KNOW now that nobody is immune, but I always thought WE WERE!!!!

I drove down the street and I knew she was a couple cars back and I was wracked with sobs. The dogs were looking at me like "Oh, no, what's going on??" I got to a red light and she pulled up beside me. Her window was part way down and I looked over -- she obviously saw that I was a complete mess -- and she had a sad face on. I quickly turned away, still sobbing.

She had a ten minute drive to work. She worked at a job where she has freedom. She ALWAYS has her cell phone ON her. It hurt even more that she not only did NOT call to say ANYTHING, nor did she even text ALL NIGHT or at all -- even till now. How can you love somebody and not even want to say "Are you okay?" or "I'm so sorry for hurting you." How??? How??? How???

I isolated last night. My sister came to pick up my DD. I checked my cell phone every two hours and every two hours I said "I can't believe she never called or texted!!"

I'm done. I can't do it. I can't continue to be her secret "buddy" while the OP gets the benefits of a relationship. Tonight is the last supper. Tomorrow is the letter.

I'm scared. I'm sad. I'm terrified. I'm lonely. I'll miss her. I'm scared she won't come back. I don't want to live without her. I have to face that I might have to. Where does the love go???????? It's killing me. I'd rather live the rest of my life alone than to ever go through this again.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

(((Chaka)))

If you are comfortable, you might want to post your plan B letter for feedback before you give it to WGF. They say to plan A until you feel your love for WS fading too fast. But, you need to leave the WS with a good last impression of you.

I am sorry you are having a bad weekend.

Sorry, I see you already posted your letter, let me get caught up!

March 14th was it. I finished my Plan B letter and wanted to give it to her on the 13th, but alas, WG and OP went on a cozy little three-day weekend together. (Note, that is sarcastic.)

WG said she could meet with me on the 15th, but I felt very strongly that I needed to get it over with, get it out of my hands and end the pain of playing "buddy" to her while she carries on a R with the OP. I told her I'd drop it off at her apartment and that's what I did.

I saw on her calendar that she is planning a trip to Hawaii in June. It didn't say with whom, but that really hurt. We've been talking about going to Hawaii for five years and it never happened.

That night, after she got the letter, she texted "I miss you!" Even though I was supposed to be in Plan B, I couldn't help it -- the "I miss you!" confused me, angered me and put hope back. We talked on the phone for two hours. About half the time we cried. We reminisced. She apologized for hurting me and for abandoning me. That was it.

There have been a couple text messages re a bill, DD and asking if DD could doggy sit over the weekend.

She dropped the dogs off on Friday and picked them up on Monday.

I am so pissed! Hurt? I guess. But, like somebody else said, I feel like I'm starting to hate her. I walk in last night after work and she has already picked up the dogs (which I am glad for). However, there was not ONE iota of a "Thank you" anywhere -- no note, no text, no phone call. By the way, DD was gone all weekend (which WG knew), so I actually did the doggy sitting.

I have been working non-stop (nearly every free moment) on our yard and it is looking awesome. Why does it hurt my feelings that she cannot even say "By the way, the yard looks great!"?????

I sent her an e-mail recently (on the advice of my therapist) thanking her for her continued financial support and telling her that I was doing everything I could to make the adjustments to handling more of the bills -- and that I was considering moving a roommate in to help me. The main reason my therapist wanted me to approach her with it was because she is still co-owner on the property. It was a nice e-mail -- nothing mushy whatsoever. Nothing rude. WHY does she not have the decency and courtesy to write a simple ONE LINE reply???? Nothing. No response at all. It is so RUDE!!!

I've been walking around the past couple days saying to myself "I hate her!! What a f*&(*^% b*&^*!!!" over and over again.

Then, I cried and cried and cried last night (it's been a while) -- I miss her so much. I can't get the pictures out of my head -- of our good times, of her smile, of her winking at me, us working in the yard together, going on walks, etc. I HURTS so bad and I MISS her so much!!!!

I want to hate her. I want this to be easier. I want to not think about her every second of every day. I want her to come back. I want her to appreciate that what we had was worth saving. I want the OP to be a LOSER!!!

And, still, I don't understand. The person I was with for five years is not the kind of person to (a) cheat; and (b) abandon her family.

This SUCKS!!!!!

JE, are you still around? I've been wondering how things are going in your camp? What's the latest with the shoulder? Your R? Have your feelings started to come back? Fill me in when you get a chance.

I also wanted to share with you that I am starting a 21 (or 26) week group for survivors tonight. I realized that it is an element of healing that I definitely need -- hoping it will help me to get in touch with my feelings/the little girl. I'm apprehensive, but at the same time excited.

It is a weekly thing that serves two purposes right now. Furthering/jump starting real healing; and filling the evening once a week -- trying to keep busy because Plan B is really, really rough. I have to say, though, in some ways, it is less painful than Plan A. I felt GOOD about me in Plan A, but every time we said good-bye and I knew they were or would be together, it really killed me. Now I don't have to pretend anymore.

Hi Chaka.

I just wandered through and read this; Just Learning asked me to come over and read. My ex and I were together for 12 years and have a daughter -- oh, and we're both women. (I'm MB's token liberal weirdo in many ways. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)

First of all, if you gave your girlfriend a Plan B letter, do NOT expect her to call you. She's respecting your wishes that you not.

Second, stop contacting her directly. If you need to know something, then send it through a mediator or intermediary. You're making things a whole lot worse -- for yourself -- by not obeying your own boundaries.

Third, and really this should be first, get a good solid hold on your shoulders and give yourself a shake. It's time for you to knock off the histrionics and get really, really grounded. You've had a month to panic and throw temper tantrums and cry all over the place.

And trust me on this, it'll be another year before you're completely done with it.

All your pain and agony and terror and abandonment "stuff" is telling you that you're not going to, so your entire existence is shoving you right to the edge of its abilities to function because your emotional/reptile/person-in-love-and-addicted-to-the-lover brain is telling you that you are going to DIE without her.

Guess what? You are going to live.

And so is your DD.

Fourth, get yourself financially independent. If she keeps paying some of the bills, fantastic. But get yourself to a point where you don't HAVE to have it to survive.


And now, a few questions. First, I'd like to know whether you ever got married, entered a civil union, went to Vermont/Massachusetts/California/Canada and got married, entered a domestic partnership, formed a legal partnership agreement, wrote wills together, signed advanced health care directives, set up durable powers of attorney, or any of the other myriad legal things that gays and lesbians can do to create a long-term and binding relationship.

I got that you've been together for five years and you have a DD who is 16. Where's her dad? Any other previous long-term relationships for either of you? How old are you and how old is your GF? and how old is the OW? I'll have more thoughts when I've got a little better understanding of the basic sitch.

Just J, THANK YOU so much for responding!!! If you don't mind, I'm going to e-mail you, okay?

Just Learning, THANK you so much for your effort and your thoughts. I appreciate it.

E-mail away! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

WHY DID I ASK HER THAT?????


I went for a walk around our building while taking a smoking break. All of a sudden WG was next to me. (Her job was right on this block today.) We did the "Hi, how are you thing." She commented on my braces. I said "I'm nervous to see you." (I was shaking!) Then, I STUPIDLY asked "Are you happy?" She nodded slightly and said "Yeah..." I turned and walked away. I feel like curling up in a ball and dying -- well, at least crying.

What the H3LL?????? Why can't I just forget like that? Why can't I let it go? Why can't I hate her???????