FOR GOD SAKE, END THIS MISERY NOW! CUT...THE...CORD. Its been the same song and dance with this woman for like 6-8 months now. How many times have you expressed how great things are going, get the congrats and attaboys from the crew here, just to see her go back to OM. Why you would want her back in your life is a mystery to me. I love my wife so very much, but I would NEVER accept this crap from her. Enough is enough man, secure your daughter and walk away with your head up high, and your cajones intact.

Dazed, I think you have really improved in your responses to her fog babble, controlling your DJ's and LB's...
I know it was a very difficult thing for me to learn to control my own tongue and learn to keep my mouth from spewing out whatever it wanted. I would have a sarcastic response or DJ for anything my FWH uttered, just waiting on the tip of my tongue.

Wow....

For those that I am getting after here, please do not take this persoally as most of you I count as friends!

But I have to say something here...

What Dazed did there is amazing. Lexxxy is the ONLY one to respond with an atta-boy...and no "buts." Okay, okay. Most of you all believe he is doing it incorrectly. I got that. But does anyone...I mean ANYONE want to wager with me that this advice of going to Plan B or doing anything different than what he is doing would be the same advice Steve Harley would give him right now? Anyone want to bet a week's pay on that??

Everyone here knows I love Plan B! But shheeesh. The Plan B call for Dazed has been going on for over two months now. If he had followed the advice of going to Plan B everytime it was brought up here...his wife would still be in that apartment and there would still be no hope.

Use whatever terms you want, what you folks are asking him to do is to give his wife an ultimatum. To do things to force her to do something that Dazed wants. And if I know anything about this stuff, then that almost NEVER works. Especially with a woman like Dazed's wife!

Did you all read his last post? Did you see when his wife said:


His wife is getting it. She had a relapse. Not uncommon in this mess, just like it is not uncommon in any addiction. But when a person is moving in the right direction, you dont try to make a bunch of demands and try to push them along. That will not work and it will actually cause them to pull away.

Dazed is being the opposite of the OM. Mrs. dazed has clear choies. Dazed is enforcing his boundaries. When she messes up, he lets her know that he knows and it isnt acceptable. In the meantime, the OM is getting loonier (and scarier). This will not continue.

But Dazed does not need to try to help it along. As SH once told me: "you cant shorten this, but you can surely cause it to go longer."

I again would ask everyone to go back and re-read his threads. I did last night. It took awhile, but it again gave me perspective on where things have been and where they are. Dazed has come a very long way. Much has happened. It is NOT the same thing over and over again. There is movement and has been movement.

Dazed, all I can say is good job. You truly do have a handle on this. Your wife is struggling to get out of this. She is now surrounded with people who are helping her do the right thing. Your continued lighthouse attitude...standing like a rock...is why she can wake up the next morning after another foggy evening and come right back to you can continue on. It is this trust that she needs. She is feeling safer by the day.

And once this is all in the past and reconciliation has started, she will remember this. This is the foundation you are now laying on a good marriage. Much is left to be done...much is left to be built. But what you have built so far inside your wife is solid...and the kicker is, she knows it!

She is fighting this addiction. Dont you abandon her now! Enforce your boundaries. Keep up the intel missions (dont let her see or talk to him without you letting her know that you know). You see, what causes her worse pain than you cutting her off is when you continue being great and still showing her that you are doing so while you know about her contact with OM. That hurts her...she doesnt like how she feels about herself when she is hurting you now. Before...she didnt care. But now, she believes you have changed. And she doesnt like herself for the things she is doing.

This is why she is hanging around and listening to that girl at work. Before...she wouldnt have given her two minutes. Now...she is soaking it in.


Dazed, this is different and you know it!! Get the RO (I'm telling you, this guy is gonna do something scarey...that license plate issue shows me he has no boundaries and is ushing hard. Where's his limits? You trust him not to take it to a level where somebody gets hurt?}. So get that order!!

And then continue on with what you are doing. The RO will be received well (maybe not t first) by your wife. It will show that you are a man of action and willing to protect her.

Okay...I think I have said my peace.

In His arms.

I will not state my opinions further on this thread as it only gets hacked to pieces by yea, friends here...

but yea mortar, I'd bet my week's pay on it that this time...this time...his alternative...plan Bob is right.

Harley doesn't say to be a welcome mat.

JP,

I'll take that bet!!

You all said "Plan B, Plan B" many times before, and SH came back with "Plan A." What makes Plan B right now, when you clearly werent correct before...in the eyes of the Harleys?

In His arms.

Speaking as a FWW, I think this is very true.

I have a MB question that pertains to this thread, but I don't want to threadjack. Is the most important goal of plan B to protect the BS or to knock the WS off the fence. I would think that plan B is to protect the BS, and anything that thw WS does in response couls be just a side benefit.

I do agree that more needs to be done to protect DD. If OM is calling DD's phone, he is waaaay over the line. Did I read that right??

You are correct!!


Yes, you did!! And all of us have been on Dazed about this. There has been unanimous support for him to shut that guy down and protect his family. This is the one part I do think Dazed has not gotten done!

In His arms.

I'm with MM...

Only he voiced what I was thinking and not posting. Many times I've seen BS's in "Plan A" and not in Plan A at all...being doormats, not getting their basic beliefs replaced...and Dazed is full throttle in there. His choice. His power.

And by really doing so, WW is seeing her choice, her power...it is what gets through the fog. Respectful, honest and non-manipulative intent.

Executed well, shaken not stirred. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Okay, that bombed. Hey, I'm laughing.

I didn't post because I trust Dazed knows he makes his choices of plans, just like he chose to get the DJs out of himself...not bite his tongue. I know he'll treat himself better by not DJing himself, just as he committed to not DJing his WW. Being safe goes both ways...it is the harbor of Plan A that many miss.

I believe that this Plan A determines recovery for the BS. Why two years later there is an internal explosion of anger and resentment they are shocked to be grappling with, wanting to leave the recovered marriage. If you manipulate your WS back...then what do you have? If you choose to believe you did it, you got them back, then they become half value to you.

Dazed isn't going down that road...he's really getting separate and equal, owning his choices, not hers. He won't be there, imploding, in two years. He'll be thriving. His choice. Her choice.

LA

SITREP, Dazed.

In His arms.

MM-

I'm going to have to (RESPECTFULLY) disagree with you at this point my friend.

The first time she waffled back and forth, it was a relapse.

The second time she came home and then turned around and contacted OM and did this, it was a relapse...

The third time...maybe...

At this point, it's not a relapse. It's a behavior pattern.

She's not going to change. She's getting what she wants...from BOTH men. I don't think it's a relapse...I truly think she's a cake-eater now.

Hence my advice...which I still stand with.

But, I'll echo your other call...

"Owl assumes his best Sgt.'s voice"...

DAZED...SITREP!

Owl,

I do agree that she is probably doing a little cake eating. No argument here.

But what I was saying is that I dont think it is time for Plan B for two reasons. The most important is that Dazed is not ready to go to Plan B. Plan B is for him, not to win back his wife!

The second reason is that I think he is making some huge deposits right now in her love bank. even though she is cake eating, I think he is doing a great job to make that inevitable choice much harder. She simply wont be able to leave if he gets to that point where she is dependent on him again. And that seems to be happening everyday (although, who knows what's happening now because we havent heard from Dazed...he's AWOL!).

These are the same reasons SH didnt have him go to Plan B before. She is now back in the house and he is doing a great Plan A. Except in ONE area!! All of us have been hitting him to start strengthening his boundaries...to start closing the loop on the affair. How? By making it harder and harder for her to eat the OM cake. First off, I am willing to bet he still has no protection order against the OM. Second, he needs to not allow her to go see him without Dazed showing up, or calling, or leaving a note on her car, etc. She must know that everytime she calls or sees him, that right outside (figuratively and/or literally), Dazed is there. That this will nto continue in darkness.

From there, he can begin to apply even more pressure in a number of areas. So, he is filling her love bank...things are getting tougher in seeing the OM. It is called Creating a Crisis.

Plan B will come soon enough. Actually, this kind of pressure (notice I didnt say he try to manipulate or threaten his wife liek the OM does), will put her in a position where she will have to make a choice. She will either succomb to the OM and run away again (which will eb the time to go to Plan B), or she will finally raise the white flag for good.

He needs to finish his Plan A. He needs the boundaries strengthened. He needs that order. He needs to keep the family moving forward.

Then he can go to Plan B.

But the problem for us right now is that we have no way of knowing what is going on due to AWOL Dazed.

In His arms.

Hey Dazed...

I hope that it's a good sign that you haven't been around...I continue praying...When you have a moment, even if it's just a small..."I'm/We're Doing Great...Say a Prayer of Thanks" or even if it's a "Not So Good...Please Pray"...whatever ya got...we'll take it!

Because many of us here care very much how you are doing, even when we have not posted to you in a while...

Dazed, I especially wanted you to know that you are near and dear to the hearts of Mr. & Mrs. Wondering for sure...you and your family have been in our prayers for a while, and you will remain so for a very long time...

Mrs. Wondering

P.S. And Dazed, your help to Good Father? WOW...INCREDIBLE...Color Me Impressed...You are and will continue to be a blessing to those here who "know" you, and I would suspect to a great many who may never "know" you...Special Dazed, you really are, I pray that your wife will eventually see you for the incredible hero that you are and that she may be given the ability to show you just how amazing that is...This gentle strength and grace that you are showing her is what I have come to admire most in Mr. W...I pray for her to be as awed by you as I am by Mr. W...you deserve that Dazed...

I'm with Mrs. W.....we are all praying for you!!! You help us as we help you!!!!!

MWIL

You're awed by me too, MWIL ...ah shucks. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

W

Hey everyone. How are things going for each one of my friends on here?
Not that I'm paying for the web space, so go ahead and let me know back a little about each of you. A bit of a change of pace is good.

So, It's been nearly a week since I last posted.
Thank you all so much for your interest and concern with me and my marriage. The group of people that have followed me around this site and keep up with my post, I consider you all to be my friends...
Thank you.

As usual there has been plenty of things happening with my marriage. Every day is thrill a minute adventure that is for sure.

So last week OM had worked his way back into her mind and was able to get the fog machine working again. I got her to tell me that OM was again pushing for her move out over the week end or at least run off out of town with him again.
(HOW SWEET IS HE? OUR DAUGHTERS BIRTH DAY)

So Friday night she was quiet and would not leave the house to do anything. She could tell I wanted to go and do something after work. I offered, dinner, movies, shopping for daughter, out of town, etc. She would not budge off the couch. After watching tv (ghost whisperer) she started to talk a little. Told me that OM again is pressuring her to do something. She said she felt bad for him. I could tell she lied to him again about the week end.

She did sleep in our bed again however. Don't worry... Not a chance of contact there...
She wanted to play on the computer Saturday morning and look for new houses. We both surfed the realty sites for an hour or more until she started asking why I have not bought a new computer yet. I told her that I had to buy other priorty things before a computer. She blew all up and accused me of hiding money again, lying to her about buying a computer, demanded to know where my pay check is going, blah, blah, blah. Oh and she accused me of being the same old Dazed that never changed and how dumb she was to think for a moment I had, and she should just get in her car and drive across town and never come back.

I told her that there was nothing to hide. 1100 dollars for the tag on our new car, 500 dollars on our daughters birthday, paying the house hold bills to live, remodeling our bathroom, buying a tag for our other car, repair bill on our home AC unit, etc... Has not broken me, but has strained my spendable money this month. Besides the computer works, just not so well at times.

She blew up and demanded to know just how I thought I was going to pay for another house and then started in on insults.
I told her that she has a right to her own beliefs however i will not allow being insulted like this.
I told her that I'm not hiding anything. I suggested we together figure the finances and bills so she will know what is going on.

She went down stairs and set on the couch for awhile and calmed down.

She did calm down and after a couple hours she was back to normal and we proceeded with planning for daughters birthday. That evening we all stayed home together.

Sunday we had another round of border testing. The came to me to share her plans for the day. The entire day she had planned to spend with our daughter doing things for her birthday. She got really pissed when I suggested we do something all together not seperately. She said, that is the way we used to do it. I said, I believe that the way we used to live seperately is just that. The way we used to. I have no problem with you two doing things with out me. I feel we should be celebrating as a family not seperate.
She was angry with me. I told her I was sharing my feelings with her and trying to be open with her. I reminded her that it is her choice to join me in sharing a family mind set. I made my choice to dedicate my life to being the best father and husband I can. It is her choice to join me.
She calmed down and we talked about plans for the day and how we will have a surprise party for daughter next week end. We worked out details and agreed on a plan.

Keep in mind these are the two bad spots of the week end. Between these two "test" we all got along good. Both Saturday and Sunday she came to me and apologized. Sunday we talked about her behaviour and where it was coming from.

She told me that OM had been pressuring her again and she was not thinking too clearly. I jumped on that. I asked her about her no contact letter. I wanted to know where it was and why it was niether approved by me and why he was allowed to disrepect her. We talked about why he was still chasing her. We talked about how she was allowing herself to be stuck with a foot in each door. OM's world, and our family's world and how she was not going to be able to move forward as long as she allowed OM to hold on to her.

I presented my beliefs as just that. I told her that a great marrige and her future here with me was a choice.
Right now I have made the choice for just that and I feel it is possible. Our daughter is accepting WW back into her life as her mom. Right now the window of oppourtunity is wide open. I don't know how long it will stay that way. I can not condon you contacting OM. As long as you choose to defend his actions and allow them, I don't feel we have a chance. If you choose to defend your choice to see him or defend his actions, I'm done with this conversation.

A little later, she came to me wanting to hug me and tell me she is sorry for hurting me putting threw all this.

Sunday evening was very nice. WW did take daughter to get there nails done and walk around the mall. I agreed while they were out, I would rebuild the tanning bed that needed new balaces. I took the bed apart, installed two new balaces, a set of bulbs and got it all put back together before they got home.
WW was very very impressed and excieted. She just kept asking me how did I know how to do that. She was very friendly as we all spend the eveing together.

We stayed up late just talking and watching tv. No relationship talk.

Monday after work WW left the house to go over to her GF's so they could work out together. I'm told that OM followed her there and pulled up in his car. He was yelling and screaming at both of them. Demanding she get in his car and leave. WW's GF told her to stay in the car and do not go with him. He went nuts screaming and blaming WW for spending time with that ****** and not him. How could she do that to him. Why did she not come see him over the week end. Instead she could go shopping with this ****** GF and her daughter but not him. He then admitted to calling the house, daughters phone, following me and WW around town and watching the house.
WW's GF made WW her drive off to get away from him. She made WW drive around town and the block several times so OM would not know for sure where she lives.

WW came home and told me that she NOW see's how blind she has been. She now knows what a mistake she was making and she is so sorry. She asked to hug me and hold my hand. I did the listen, repeat, acknowledge, and console. I told her that he has crossed the line to many times and now its time. Time to give all of us closure and protection.

Tuesday she wrote him another letter. WW's GF also wrote WW a great email... Here it is... WW actually sent it to me so i could read it.

______________________________

TO DAZED
Hi--Just thought u might want to see this-- I guess GF is pretty smart for being so young--I think she is right....I have been stupid & have even encouraged his crazy behavior---I have been so dumb...
MRS.DAZED
____________________
> From: GF
> Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 9:01 AM
> To: Mrs.Dazed
> Subject:
>
> Hey girl- I know things are hard, but you really have to try and not see OM. If he knows that everytime he hunts you down in your car, that you'll go with him or at least talk to him, he's going to continue to follow you EVERYWHERE! It's one thing if someone is really"stalking", b/c you can get the cops involved. But if you encourage it, you can pretty much forget trying to spend time with anyone else. He'll always be there, trying to steal you away. And there's no one to call to help you b/c you let it happen. What a selfish person he is, if he gets that mad about your spending 30 min. with a friend. And to yell at you and be so hostile in front of them. And not consider who rude and embarrassing, not to mention disrespectful that is to you. He wants YOU, even if it makes you completely unhappy b/c it cuts you off from everything and everyone. All he's thinking about is himself. If he really cared, he wouldn't be so angry and bossy all the time. Every moment he saw or talked to you, he would be on his best behavior, trying to make you remember the good times.

___________________________________

Monday night while they were working out "attacked".
I was home and did several things to surprise her.
1) I fixed the broken pendant on her LAMB purse. She began to cry when I shown her I fixed it.
2) Me and Daughter cooked food and brownies. I had WW take a place of brownies to the GF at work the next day.
3) I was playing around on EBAY looking for the correct chain for the purse and found some deals I had to buy.
I bought the wife a work out suit (stefani lamb) really cheap.
I shown the wife and she about fell out of the chair she loved it so much.

The timing was perfect. I was doing something nice with in the family and for her while OM was helping convince her that NO CONTACT is important.

Last night GF came over and picked up WW so they could go work out and OM could not run her down in her car.

I have changed the home phone number and we are getting daughter a new phone / number for her birthday this week end.
I'm waiting on my lawyer to call me back with advice on how we want to pursue with some type of order.

We are together having daughters birthday party this week end.

Wow, you stink at Plan A!! NOT! I know others disagree, but I've re-read your thread from day 1.....talk about movement...yes 6 steps forward and 5 backward....but the longterm trend is upward and continues to be!!!! To some, these ups and downs are her "just toying with you"...and viewing for only a few weeks would be a good argument...but looking at the entire ordeal.....the trend is upward!!

Would you say that you felt at the highest point since D-Day, after her finding out about the workout suit?? If yes...Plan A works!! (And it helps to have a Looney Toon for an OM!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )

There is a reason everyone advises of the rollercoaster after an A!! And patience! IMO, your perserverence has truly shown the love you have for your W. When she finally sees this...sometime down the road....you will be her hero!!

God bless you as always, Dazed!!
MWIL

MyWifeILove,

Ditto here.

In His arms.

I see all kinds of movement. Her entire attitude towards me has changed for the most part. I typically come on here and report the worst. I guess it's human nature to do. Kind of like turning on the nightly news and usually only bad stuff makes headlines.

The fog moments I have reported are not the same as the old ones. Even though she is very insulting, it seems to me it is more testing and bording fighting if you will.

I know OM is all blown up and I really don't think she is leaving the house for him. I think she has been unable to end her addiction with out giving in and allowing contact with him. Kind of like letting him down easy while getting the addiction met. Obviously that is dangerous and will not work with out someone blowing up.

She is calling me at work now just to tell me about things happening in her life. She is talking to me about her work and what each day consist of. Sharing with me her feelings about small things like finding a bargin on a shirt at the store. Or how she is organizing the next seminar at her work and is asking me to read her work for approval.

She is opening herself up to me when the fog is not present. Her new friend at work it huge help for us. This girl has also had a relationship with a guy that would not go away and stalked her. She is such a help.
The timing was perfect because my SIL that was helping so much is now in trouble with her marriage and has lost most of her credibility with the wife.

At time this has been hard for me. When I see her make steps they are huge steps. It is surprising how much she moves when she does. I really believe that one the door is shut on OM that she will really be able to think on her own in a way that is positive for our relationship.

I totally expect a long recovery process but I can handle small amounts of movement. Each day is better than the last one. Only a couple of times she has back slid but I was able to apply what I have learned and not react badly to damage the movement we have made.

I also expect there to me many more test and border fighting to take place. As I try to shape our marriage and lead it down a new path she will most likely resist or need extra time to understand. I have to learn to plan for this and be prepared.

Many on here think things are not improving and cake eating is taking place. I see it like this.
She is slowly allowing me a chance to meet more of her needs and test me to see if I can or will. Kind of like testing your footing on ice. She is scared of old Dazed coming back. I have to continue to gain her trust and promote a new start with out preconcieved judgements from both of us.

My lawyer blew me off again. I guess its time to find another one.

btw~ The wife asked me to help her with her work tonight and to finish planning daughters birthday once she leave for dance class.

Also I have taken out a new user name that I'm issuing to the wife. She has started asking for my code so I took out a new one that she can come on here with if she wants too.
I have not told her of this user name or post. I don't think it is a good idea if ever not until recovery has happened.

dazed, I don't post much on your thread even though I have followed your story from the beginning. You have received some INCREDIBLE advice that I have used for my own situation as well.

I'm really happy to hear things are turning around for your situation (even if ever so slowly). I truly believe when your WW fully defogs she will see you as the lighthouse and realize all that you fought for.

I hope you get to the point where you can start using your knowledge and experience to help others as well.

And yes I wouldn't give you W your username right now since it may cause some problems this early in recovery.

good luck my friend!

I agree with you 100% dazed.

BTW: I don't think your doing a good job <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />. I think you're doing a GREAT job. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Stay Strong & have fun @ DD's BP.