I honestly believe if it had not been me it would have been somebody else

Yes, but you did form a strong bond...a bond based on lies and secrets, but a bond not easily broken...and impossible to break with ongoing contact.

It is not MY responsibility to save their marriage it is up to them, they took the vows, and have always had a strong committment to a LIFELONG mariage.

No it is not your responsibility. Your responsibility is to tend to your own integrity. It sounds as if your affair partner's idea of marriage is not to get divorced. I don't think it sounds as he is interested in the real intent of his vows. Fom his view, I wouldn't call what he has a marriage at all, but a long term contract. You paint him as a self absorbed man, who has affairs because he can and because he feels entitled.

we are "just someone I used to love".

In No Contact, sure, I guess this label fits. With ANY contact, now or in the future, you are either engaged in an affair, or at the least highly inappropriate behavior. It sounds as though you are giving yourself some wiggle room with this label...like being a little bit pregnant.

I wish you well with your decisions.

quit making excused for your relationship with him. Did his wife know about your 16 year relationship. Then it is a lie. Yes if it wasnt you it could very well be someone else, so what. That is not your problem to fix their marriage as you say. The pain that even an EA can cause a wife and family is so much more than you will ever know being the OW, trust me i am going thru that now. Get away from them and never involved yourself with a married or person in a relationship. Your relationship with him is all about lies and fantasy, is that what you want from your life.

I think actions speak louder than words. End contact, starting NOW. It's not your place to "fix" or contribute any kind of "input" or "help" in their Marriage.

Sixteen years is a very long time for a BS to have to live a lie. How sad. You obviously had more control than she did. You had the knowledge of this for all this time, as she did not. You could have walked along time ago, instead of waiting sixteen years, only to now think you have a "responsibility" to inform her.

It seems to me, the only reason things ended with WS, is because there was a D-Day. And now, you want to be counselor?

Speak with your ACTIONS, and remove yourself from their marriage. Obviously, now that d-day has happened, his wife is aware of the problems in her marriage, and it's up to them to figure out how to recover, without your further intrusion. I know even if it hadn't been you, it would have been someone else, but that's still not your problem.

Anyway, I'm sorry if I sounded harsh to you, this is just my opinion, and I do wish the best for you, and in finding someone who is completely available to YOU, and does not need any kind of guidance or counseling. You appear to be an intelligant person, so I hope you can use that in fashion that will benefit yourself, without hurting another.

Good Luck and Best Wishes!

There u r LTM, take it from a BS who at this moment is very raw with her emotions. The pain she is feeling is devasting her life and well.....the A has taken her to depths no one should ever go to. We will try to help her out but in your case......if this were the BS you hurt, you couldn't be the one to pull her out. In some rare cases, maybe but in most cases and at this stage of the game....it is too much and too painful.

Just wanted to bring out that no one escapes the responbility from bringing this type of pain to the family.

LTM, you will have to live with the fact that you aided and abeited in the devastation of his family....... for all those years. No changing the past.....what you have the opportunity is to change your futre. Make wise decisions now, not stupid ones.

LostTiger, I appreciate your post. Let's go back to your thread and try to help you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

PS Feeling sorry for the wife is useless. Showing respect, by not participating in her marriage any further, would be better.

Quick question...did she, as far as you know, know the length or depth of your relationship or that you were not the first?

LTM:

I am sorry, I don't buy your concern for the BS. You had an affair at her expense for 16 years and now you state you want to help her. I would say you are deliberately trying to break up the marriage but you are packaging your motives and actions as if you are trying to help the nice little BS that you screwed over for 16 years. If this woman thought her husband was seeing you again, she would likely divorce him and then you can have back what you lost.

Do her a favor and stay out of her life forever and that means never talking to the WH again. You have broken this woman's heart and have taken away her marriage, as she believed it to be, by your own self serving actions. I tried to believe your post as being sincere but your history speaks of your lack of values and morals and you are back at it again. My predictions, you will continue to see the WH and you will bust him to try and keep him.

LTM means "Love Him, Take Him & Marry Him".

Sorry,

TooSoon

It was not cheap, meaningless or easily tossed aside. I honestly believe if it had not been me it would have been somebody else who may have caused chaos in his family, I did not want that and still don't.

Does anyone else see how these two comments are in conflict with each other? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

You say that it was not cheap, meaningless, or easily tossed aside....yet you also claim that it would have been any ole piece of [censored]...oooops...that it would have been somebody else if it wasn't you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Guess it ain't that special afterall...

Lord...the things people say...

committed

"I honestly believe if it had not been me it would have been somebody else who may have caused chaos in his family,"

Would have meant a lifetime of difference if it hadn't been you. If you hadn't chosen that life. Your choice matters. You wanted what you wanted and you took it. Own that, at least, for yourself. For your honest, thirsty self!

It was you, and you had your part in damaging an entire family. You did that. It's done. What matters are your choices today, knowing you did that.

Calling something a door when it is a spoon doesn't make it a spoon, LTM. "I will not not answer his phone calls as he will not ignore mine but I have made it clear that this is not a "friendship", no longer an "affair" either, we are "just someone I used to love"."

It is the continuation of the affair. Your choice. Not what you feel matters, nor him...but his continually betrayed spouse names it. All contact is continuation. Calling it something else is a lie.

"so maybe when I am gone they truly will be alone in their marriage for the first time in over 20 years." When will that be?

"I also hear you all saying that there is no good reason or way for me to approach her without causing more pain. Believe me I will take that into consideration as I think through these final decisions."

You heard that as long as you are inflicting damage on their marriage (your part and choice only), that you cannot contact her, otherwise it is cruelty, right? Contacting her and notifying her of the previous contact you had AFTER you stop doing evil, is called amends. Respect.

LA

This should not even BE a question of consideration on YOUR part, about making any decisions, concerning THEIR marriage. The ONLY "final" decision that should be made by YOU, is to remove yourself from the scene. You didn't belong there in the first place.

I'm sorry. I didn't find any honest questions in this post and I'm truly amazed at the kindness and tolerance shown in responses to this post.

LTM

Despite any good intentions you think you have, DO NOT under any circumstances contact the wife in any way, shape or form.

If the marriage is meant to be then it will sort itself out without your help. Cease all contact with the WH now! Don't try and be a martyr with "good intentions" who is trying to "save" the marriage.

As a BS myself, I do not want any contact with the OW. No contact at all is the only way this marriage will have any chance (if that is what you truly want?!)

I am sure you are a very nice person, but you have done something majorly wrong in your life and now need to get your own life back in order. Don't worry about others.

If what you have written in your initial post is genuine, then target all of your energies into your own self-esteem. You sound sincere, but then again, my FWH's OW is a "nice" person too. She supposedly flies to Third World countries and helps to build houses for charity. (Doesn't atone for what she has done to me - I couldn't care less how "nice" she is!)

Be sure of this (as I am) - what goes around comes around, so LTM start doing things for yourself and others that don't involve this other man and his family.

Well it is not easy for an OP to convince any BS that they are asking honest questions. LTM knew this when she posted. The very fact that she is reading and taking at least some of it to heart, give her more validity than previous OWs from the TOW board.

If you want to see a real OW go to the TOW board. Those broads are proud t/b OWs and love to inflict pain on the family. They scheme amongst themselves and with the WS' on how best to do the BS and family in (i.e. emotionally, mentally, financially, etc.).

From my experience, LTM is worth helping. At least for now.

JMHO,
L.

You have invaded the privacy of his marriage for 16 yrs . It is none of your business to interfere in their affairs.

In many ways the LTM has been cool calm and in control and can take the attitude that we are all civilised adults why cant we all be friends together.

In contrast the BS is not cool calm and in control she is quite the opposite .The kind of relationship you envisage is defiitely not possible.

Any form of contact is abusive and toxic to the BS .The only reason you could want to make amends is to try and retain your integrity and to maintain your image as an intelligent sensitive and wonderful person in the eyes of your lover.

There are no winners in this situation it is useless to try and walk away from this mess smelling of roses.

I think that underneath all this is an expectation that the BS is going to step in and stop you and the WS from returning to an affair at a deeper level. You seem to have some beliefs about how the affair wasn't moral behavior, was hurtful to all involved. As a poster mentioned earlier, it's like asking for forgiveness before you go out and commit a sin....knowing full well that you're still going out and doing it!

If you're going to continue contact....regardless of how you label the current relationship....you are staying in contact....period. The ole "well I'm not NOT going to take his calls for the time being..." is a TRAP! Who are you trying to fool? Your mouth says one thing, but your behavior says another. And the future "I'm not going to..." isn't here! Most people don't "intend" to start or stay in an affair. So how does it happen? How do they start? "Well we had so much in common, and he was having problems and I was having problems, and it was just so good to have someone to talk to, that would really care, really listen. And I couldn't just abandon him when things got rough! That would be terrible.....We never intended to get sexually involved!"

Today you are having contact with the WS. Today you are having an emotional affair with the WS. And you know it....because you are considering telling his BS. Why would you need to tell the BS if you're not having an affair???? Because you think she has the right to know. To know what? You're "just helping a friend over a hump during a difficult time." So, why do you need to contact the BS if that's all it is????? Just because the WS initiates it??? It's like a mixed message. "Oh BS, I wanted to let you know that your H. is calling me again, but don't worry because I'm just trying to help him over a hump and then we won't have contact anymore, so it's really ok that this is happening, because it's not really an affair, but I thought you should know..................???????

If you're so concerned about the impact of this on the BS.... that she has the right to know in order to make her own decisions and choices....If you're soooooo concerned about the BS's feelings, then be concerned enough to not enable the situation! You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. "I'm concerned about the BS, because this isn't fair to her. She's been hurt bad enough already......so out of my concern I'm going to tell her about it...but I'm going to continue to participate in the behavior that has been hurtful to her."

So, what is your motivation in considering contact??? It's just not clear to me.

Orchid

For the first time I can be accused of being too brief. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

"Amazed" should be translated as "impressed" with the kindness and tolerance shown. Given the content, I fully expected someone like me to come along and blast away.

But I didn't find any truly honest questions in her post. I'll table whether I think she was being dishonest with herself or with us.

But, hey, I am ready to confess bias could be clouding my judgement. I doubt she would be able to do the same.

Post deleted by Cherished

I read over there...why? to get into their wittle heads.

and I mean wittle!

but to this lta woman?

GET OUTTA THIS MARRIAGE..mal intent or good. get out. it does NOT involve you.

if they want advice or healing, let them TOGETHER SEEK MC. AN OW DOES NOT NEED TO PROVIDE THAT SERVICE...leave it to the real pro's.

my xh's ow1, whom he is STILL SEEING, does that. makes my stomach churn.

in reality, the ow1, monkeyho, is a CODEPENDENT. SHE IS UNABLE TO LEAVE HIM COMPLETELY..AND HE THE SAME. sad sad sad. she is not a helper. she does not fulfill anything except make him feel better about himself. pats him on the back for being a "good dad" and paying cs and the like. she listens to him...and he tells her intimate details of his life HE SHOULD BE CONFIDING IN HIS WIFE ABOUT.

it is a sickness...an addiction.

if you were truly honest w/yourself, you'd walk away.

I read over there honey...I read the endings board.

and all the endings? they are b/c (I AM USING THEIR LINGO OK?)...they are NOT HAPPY OW. Nope. not happy. they want the marriage. they want the life. they want the name on caller id. they want the roses. they want the flowers. they want the WS. they walk away WHEN THEIR NEEDS ARE REFUSED TO BE MET by the WS. and that is only when.

I am being 100 percent honest here.

I think your posting here in the beginning and on the surface may be good...and you may have good intent...but what deep down makes you think ANY CONTACT IS GOOD CONTACT? when a M is recovering/

you can't be "just somebody I used to love". naah.

lemme tell ya girl. I AM DATING MY XBF ...the guy before ...IMMEDIATELY WITHIN WEEKS BEFORE I MET MY XH...we had buried feelings all these years. and I WAS A GOOD AND LOVING AND 100 PERCENT SUPPORTIVE AND FAITHFUL WIFE. nev er felt or acknowledged I had these feelings...until after y divorce and saw my xbf back home and we went to dinner.

they jumped 2 the surface very quicky. and b/c of the distance, it's been hard so we're not exclusive..not yet anyway. plus I am happily living the other life now..single...happy, having fun.

it NEVER WORKS...THE OLD LOVERS TO FRIENDS TRANSITION.

respect to the family and to yourself equals NO CONTACT.

GET IT? THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR CONTACT...unless you harbor desires that are imho, less than decent or moral for this poor family.

and the WS here needs to RESPECT HIS FAMILY AND VOWS AND WIFE by leaving YOU ALONE.

Sounds like the long term mistress can't take the truths brought out on this board. The lover does fine in secret when they think nobody knows of their sneaky willingness to destroy a marriage and a family. She is a loser who can never be trusted nor will she ever trust others because of her own willingness to be deceitful.

The bottom line is, "she has become what she practiced to be". That is why she has renewed the affair and will continue to allow it to happen. She probably will "save" the BS by telling her of her ongoing affair with the WS.

I just saw a show this afternoon and the friend confessed to his buddy that he had been screwing his wife the last year before their divorce. At the expense of his friend, the lovers married. Later the old friend says to the XH, "my marriage and my life sucks" and he then asked the XH and his old friend, "Are you mad at me?" The XH and friend says "No, but I am wondering one thing, who else is she is screwing today?"

TooSoon

How true. Self-change normally takes such an incredible amount of desire and strength, that it is only through devastating loss that we are able to do it...something about bottoming out and then rebuilding with some wisdom under your belt.

Speaking of making bad choices as a lifestyle, I watched the movie "monster" last night. I thought it was the most depressing thing I had ever seen, but the lesson about making bad choices in that movie was very powerful.

If you were serious about ending it LTM, you would have done so with no desire to speak to him or to his BW. Maybe had he dumped you and left you in heartwrenching agony, your life would be about to swing in a new and better direction...as I think that would be what it would take.

Unfortunately you do not seem to be the one losing anything in all of this...except maybe the possibility of bringing joy to others instead of pain from making bad choices.

I was the single OW to a MM too, and I know that even though I ended it with him I wanted him to come back which he did after he divorced, but then he screwed me over too...and I'm glad because like Toosoon said I risked becoming what I practiced...even though he was a predator I was the willing predatee.

But I do hope you learn something here so that when you are old and looking back on your life, you can be proud of what you have done and made up for the pain you have caused another.

Weaver:

I don't blast all WS's or Lovers on these boards. LTM had a 16 year affair and has allowed it to be renewed. She is a preditor herself. She has taken everything and anything that the marriage meant to the BS and destroyed it. People kill themselves for less things than that. This lady should be publically humiliated and labeled as a marriage breaker and whor...

TooSoon